Heritage BP increasing 0

[tth2]

On 6/27/2018 at 6:17 AM, PeterPark said:

Everyone probably saves more because I don't bid because of the BP. You're welcome everybody!

[NP_Gresham]

On 6/9/2018 at 9:56 PM, tth2 said:

Just compare the prices of the Berk books that have been resold on Heritage against their sale price on CC, and the answer will be clear.

Maybe CC should have NP in the house.

 

[entalmighty1]

On 6/26/2018 at 5:17 PM, PeterPark said:

Everyone probably saves more because I don't bid because of the BP. You're welcome everybody!

I don't understand why people have this mentality.  The bottom dollar doesn't change one bit.  The 20% buyer premium is calculated into the bid, so when you pull the trigger, the price is already reflected.  You don't get hit with another 20% after you win.

[october]

32 minutes ago, entalmighty1 said:

I don't understand why people have this mentality.  The bottom dollar doesn't change one bit.  The 20% buyer premium is calculated into the bid, so when you pull the trigger, the price is already reflected.  You don't get hit with another 20% after you win.

I don't get it either. I just reduce my actual bid to account for the BP. Heritage shows it all, not that hard to do.

[Dark Knight]

Yep ^

[sfcityduck]

6 hours ago, october said:

I don't get it either. I just reduce my actual bid to account for the BP. Heritage shows it all, not that hard to do.

Are there different tax implications for paying a BP versus a SP?

More specifically, does the use of a BP in addition to or in place of a SP reduce the amount of sales taxes paid on a book?  E.g., if you buy a book at Heritage that hammers at $10K, you pay $10K for the item (subject to sales taxes) and $2K as a "premium" or service fee to Heritage (not subject to sales taxes)?  I don't know the answer, I'm just curious how they account for that.  Obviously, if the hammer price was $12K, as at other houses, the sales tax would be on the full $12K.  If you live in SF, as I do, where sales taxes are around 10%, that $2K difference in "sales price" would amount to a $200 sales tax savings. 

 

 

 

[N e r V]

Now that states have the right to collect sales tax from any online retailer I wonder how that will impact Heritage down the road. They were only collecting sales tax from states where they had a presence before unlike some of the other larger retailers who saw the Supreme Court ruling coming. According to the news it seems only the smaller retailers like them will be impacted because most of the larger ones had started collecting the tax.

[tth2]

10 hours ago, N e r V said:

Now that states have the right to collect sales tax from any online retailer I wonder how that will impact Heritage down the road. They were only collecting sales tax from states where they had a presence before unlike some of the other larger retailers who saw the Supreme Court ruling coming. According to the news it seems only the smaller retailers like them will be impacted because most of the larger ones had started collecting the tax.

Since I live in a place with no sales tax, I don't care! 

But I hope it acts as a big handicap on bidders from places that do have sales tax. 

The best would be if Heritage had to start collecting VAT on all bidders from the UK and Europe.  It would be so great if they had to start from a 20-ish% hole. 

[JollyComics]

On 6/9/2018 at 11:08 AM, Sqeggs said:

Interesting.  I did not know that. 

Heritage Gallery Auction has several offices in NY, Chicago, Dallas, 2 locations in California and Florida. I live in Illinois and get the sale taxes so I have the PO Box address in Wisconsin where I don't get the sale tax.

[NP_Gresham]

On 6/28/2018 at 4:52 AM, entalmighty1 said:

I don't understand why people have this mentality.  The bottom dollar doesn't change one bit.  The 20% buyer premium is calculated into the bid, so when you pull the trigger, the price is already reflected.  You don't get hit with another 20% after you win.

I bid there, but rarely win. Same methodology, I have one bid say $500. If there is $400 in BP and $50 in shipping I bid $50.

The problem is those bids are a waste of time. It makes me wonder if certain well heeled buyers are bidding without the BP.

Either way, the auction house gets not a penny more than what my bottom line is.

This auction house is well known for the in-house shill. One wonders how many books the auction house takes back and sells themselves while taking from the sellers a significant amount of ROI.

If I sell a $1K book that goes for $850 and nets me that less the SP and the auction house is the buyer, then they get to double dip their fees and resell for 1K later and pocket yet more profit.

If I sell on CC or Clink I am fairly confident that the final hammer (knocked down by excessive fees)  did not go to an in-house shiller who is going to take yet another bite at the apple on the resale.

[entalmighty1]

3 minutes ago, NP_Gresham said:

I bid there, but rarely win. Same methodology, I have one bid say $500. If there is $400 in BP and $50 in shipping I bid $50.

The problem is those bids are a waste of time. It makes me wonder if certain well heeled buyers are bidding without the BP.

Either way, the auction house gets not a penny more than what my bottom line is.

This auction house is well known for the in-house shill. One wonders how many books the auction house takes back and sells themselves while taking from the sellers a significant amount of ROI.

If I sell a $1K book that goes for $850 and nets me that less the SP and the auction house is the buyer, then they get to double dip their fees and resell for 1K later and pocket yet more profit.

If I sell on CC or Clink I am fairly confident that the final hammer (knocked down by excessive fees)  did not go to an in-house shiller who is going to take yet another bite at the apple on the resale.

On an intellectual level, I don't disagree with anything you've said here.

Unfortunately, those thought processes rarely come into play for me when I'm bidding, because cool books.  

[dannyboy]

On a slightly separate topic, and apologies if it's been discussed, but if BP and SP, etc, etc, are all factored into GPA pricing why wouldn't sales tax be included?  I'm paying an extra 9% for all the books I buy on HA and I'm fully aware of it when I bid - basically it's part of the cost of the book.  Why not use it for GPA?  And I know not everyone pays sales tax on HA, but I don't see the relevance, what you pay is what you pay.  And on some of these books that 9% can be a pretty penny.

[HENRYSPENCER]

On 6/8/2018 at 4:35 PM, entalmighty1 said:

Their buyer premium doesn't bother me, as it makes no difference to me as a buyer how the sales price gets split between Heritage and the owner.  Doesn't change how much I'm willing to spend.

Maybe but the added BP artificially inflates the sale price if you compare their results to Comic Connect.  Unless I knew with absolute certainty that what I was selling would command a premium through Heritage buyers I'd look elsewhere because they subtract the BP from your check and then take out their consignment fee.  On a 1200 item, you're only looking at netting around $750 when it's all said and done which is nuts.

Edited June 30, 2018 by HENRYSPENCER

[tth2]

3 hours ago, dannyboy said:

On a slightly separate topic, and apologies if it's been discussed, but if BP and SP, etc, etc, are all factored into GPA pricing why wouldn't sales tax be included?  I'm paying an extra 9% for all the books I buy on HA and I'm fully aware of it when I bid - basically it's part of the cost of the book.  Why not use it for GPA?  And I know not everyone pays sales tax on HA, but I don't see the relevance, what you pay is what you pay.  And on some of these books that 9% can be a pretty penny.

I would be ecstatic if bidders from high sales tax states like CA factored sales tax into their bids.  Even more if European bidders factored VAT into their bids.

[tth2]

1 hour ago, HENRYSPENCER said:

On a 1200 item, you're only looking at netting around $750 when it's all said and done which is nuts.

Again, very few (if any) sellers on Heritage pay the full boat.  

[BAT MAN]

In a previous life I was a quant. I get what some folks on here are saying with respect to this makes no difference with respect to what they are going to spend from a total aggregate perspective/number. But just let that sink in for a moment. Take it in. Granted I have consumed allot of bellvedere tonight so perhaps my intellectual spidie senses are in a different spectrum but seriously 20% BP is absolutely 

[HENRYSPENCER]

10 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Again, very few (if any) sellers on Heritage pay the full boat.  

If you negotiated how could they potentially pay you out? Would they take a commission as a percentage of the total sale, so you get a cut of BP or would they lower their commission?  Perhaps no commission at all?  What kind of prices are we talking about for the lower commissions?

[tth2]

8 hours ago, DC|Marvel said:

In a previous life I was a quant. I get what some folks on here are saying with respect to this makes no difference with respect to what they are going to spend from a total aggregate perspective/number. But just let that sink in for a moment. Take it in. Granted I have consumed allot of bellvedere tonight so perhaps my intellectual spidie senses are in a different spectrum but seriously 20% BP is absolutely 

You were a quant but you don't understand the math of BPs?

Would you mind saying which shop you worked at, so I can make sure I never ever ever put my money with them?

[BAT MAN]

29 minutes ago, tth2 said:

You were a quant but you don't understand the math of BPs?

Would you mind saying which shop you worked at, so I can make sure I never ever ever put my money with them?

Wow you are quite a friendly chap. How did you extrapolate a supposed misunderstanding on my end?  I was merely saying that 20% when you see that number at face value; it appears to be a bit stiff. But of course I do realize in that particular platform for those types of services, its the standard/norm i.e. Sotheby's etc.  

[HENRYSPENCER]

You can factor the BP into your bid, but in reality, you are paying MORE than what the items worth respective to market.  BP artificially inflates the price of the items as in addition to the sale price you are paying a percentage tacked on to the auction house.  That half a percentage point means subsequent sales will be higher than they previously would have been and sellers, dealers, and other auction venues will be comparing their future asking prices to those sales at Heritage with the new higher BP. These items with the new 20% BP will be reported to GPA Analysis and will over inflate asking prices more than they already are. Auction houses being able to adjust BP whenever they so desire and the vice-grip, ripple effect it creates on the rest of the hobby is one of the many reasons why I think auctions, in general, should be tightly regulated.  When interest rates are low, they can adjust BP to their liking, and in the end, they can collect whatever percentage they deem necessary to keep their business looking better to investors than it actually is.

Edited June 30, 2018 by HENRYSPENCER