Shang-Chi coming to a theater near you 5 5

[Bosco685]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:16 PM, speedcake said:

a majority of fans "loving" a movie doesn't make it a good movie.  Shang-Chi is a mediocre film that could have been so much better, cultural issues and considerations aside.

[speedcake]

I finally watched Black Widow last night, too and enjoyed that one much more. So what do I really know  

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:16 PM, speedcake said:

a majority of fans "loving" a movie doesn't make it a good movie.  Shang-Chi is a mediocre film that could have been so much better, cultural issues and considerations aside.

Not agreeing with a movie's story choices doesn't make it a bad movie, either.

I get it, you wanted a more grounded martial arts based action thriller like Captain America or Black Widow, instead of the more fantasy adventure genre movie we got. I think Marvel wants Shang-Chi playing more with the big hitters like Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel, and Thor instead of being a street level pure martial arts hero.

Edited November 15, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[speedcake]

I'm glad you enjoyed it.  You also don't get as much as you seem to think you do. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:16 PM, speedcake said:

Shang-Chi is a mediocre film that could have been so much better

As far as being a good movie vs a mediocre film, again, I think it's a good film, and not just because I liked the story or the characters.

Shang-Chi and the Ten Rings gives us a hero who goes through a character arc. A "prince" running away from his family legacy, whether it's his father's(power, crime) or his mother's(responsibility), and who has to face those legacies when they come looking for him and his sister. At the same time, the hero has enough moments of humor, tragedy, action, and enlightenment to make the journey more or less entertaining for the audience.

Even Katy goes through a character arc in a fantasy adventure super-hero movie sense.

The movie has a three act plot structure for its characters to journey through with good tension provided by a strong villain, Shang-Chi's father. For me, Wen Wu is a strong villain because the movie establishes his ruthlessness throughout the movie while also throwing a monkey wrench in the melodrama by making him the hero's father. A Darth Vader type dad/villain. The movie does give way to a more Avengers-level threat villain, an interdimensional monster, but that also seems to be the theme in Phase Four.

Regarding the movie's plot, I detected no discernable plot holes. 

The filmmakers added nice attention-to-detail elements, particularly Asian-American/China culture details, like Shang-Chi removing his shoes at Katy's family door or the breakfast scene with Katy's family.

About the acting, Simu Liu did fine for his role and Tony Leung was incredible as Wen Wu.

For me, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings checked off a lot of boxes for what I would rate a good/decent superhero comic book movie.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:18 PM, Bosco685 said:

I can't believe you used a Stan Lee gif as a positive response to a post expressing dislike of a Marvel movie. The Man may have actually twitched in his grave from that...

[@therealsilvermane]

I really liked the movie's use of dragon scale as a kind of power source/armor. While not totally original, it was a nice heavy-hitter Vibranium-like fantasy-adventure element to add to Shang-Chi's development as a super-hero (in addition to the Ten Rings) who will soon be fighting alongside the likes of Captain Marvel and Thor.

Edited November 15, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

On 11/15/2021 at 1:07 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I can't believe you used a Stan Lee gif as a positive response to a post expressing dislike of a Marvel movie. The Man may have actually twitched in his grave from that...

I'm sure you believe that as you attend your next Marvel AA meeting

[rexinnih]

Saw this originally in 3D in the theaters and watched gain last night on Disney +. Still worthwhile but thought better suited for 3D. 

[sagekilz]

Viewed it last night and to me it's the epitome of a one viewing's enough type film.

Ridiculously annoyed there was no explanation of Wong and Abomination's affiliation within the film, like at all.  Yes I understand the end credits explained a TINY bit, but no footnotes, nothing explaining why they were there in the first place.  I'm sure there's something within these boards as well as the 'ol google machine but I'm not that invested in the movie to care. 

And please, can we not cast Awkwafina in anything ever again?  Just the worst.

Edited November 15, 2021 by sagekilz

[fantastic_four]

On 11/13/2021 at 11:53 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

We will never see Fin Fang Foom in the MCU. Though you may not see it as you're probably not Asian, the name is offensive. It's already been noted by Simu Liu as such and a reason why new monsters were created in liu of ol' Finny. 

Never heard that before.  What's offensive about it?

[Bosco685]

On 11/15/2021 at 3:23 PM, fantastic_four said:

Never heard that before.  What's offensive about it?

It's an unfortunate situation where Fin Fang Foom (again a character with 14 paragraphs on the Marvel.com official page) got lumped into 'Orientalism' with those looking to fix Marvel's past.

During an NBC interview, Simu Liu mentioned Fin Fang Foom would not be appearing. But he didn't outright call the character offensive or racist.

NBC NEWS: Simu Liu, the Asian Marvel superhero emerging at a critical time

Quote

“We have a lot of heroes. We have Asian heroes, we have Asian American heroes, men, women, of all ages, and not all of them do martial arts,” he said. “But that doesn't mean that they don't have their own arcs, their own stories, their own subtleties and nuances. And I think that's what's important.”

 

It also helps, Liu said, that some questionable elements from the source material, like the shape-shifting dragon-like being puzzlingly named “Fin Fang Foom,” do not make an appearance in the movie. 

So with that statement MCU fanatics ran with Fin Fang Foom was offensive and racist and should be erased from Marvel's history as a whole. Yet the chief concern was the character was created by Caucasian comic writers (Stan Lee, Jack Kirby) and therefore they were just throwing together some words to make it sound Oriental in origin.

What is weird is the character is a space alien. 

FIN FANG FOOM

Quote

According to Iron Man, the creature once thought to be native of China's Valley of the Sleeping Dragon was actually the navigator of a starship from a planet called Kakaranathara (though Iron Man notes this world is sometimes referred to as Maklu IV). Theirs was a race of peace, but the alien we know as Fin Fang Foom - meaning "He whose limbs shatter mountains and whose back scrapes the sun" - and a group of dissidents escaped, setting out to conquer other worlds.

So funny someone gets over-sensitive about the image of Stan Lee used in a post here. Yet the co-creator being Stan Lee is also used to imply racism.

[fantastic_four]

On 11/15/2021 at 3:56 PM, Bosco685 said:

Yet the chief concern was the character was created by Caucasian comic writers (Stan Lee, Jack Kirby) and therefore they were just throwing together some words to make it sound Oriental in origin.

What is weird is the character is a space alien.

Despite being aware of the character for a few decades I never read anything with him in it.  Was he a space alien in the original Strange Tales comic?

I Googled this and couldn't find anything definitive.  As you said it does sound a bit uncertain.

Edited November 15, 2021 by fantastic_four

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/15/2021 at 3:23 PM, fantastic_four said:

Never heard that before.  What's offensive about it?

Although it wasn't meant to be offensive when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the character, the name Fin Fang Foom, meant to sound "oriental" as the dragon was from Asia, is still a western depiction of "the Orient" in the 60's which was often filtered through stereotype views in western literature and yes, comic books. The story itself was harmless from a sociological standpoint I believe. It's just an alien monster yarn.

Edited November 15, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/15/2021 at 3:59 PM, fantastic_four said:

Despite being aware of the character for a few decades I never read anything with him in it.  Was he a space alien in the original Strange Tales comic?

Fin Fang Foom started as a short monster story in a pre-superhero Silver Age Marvel story. Later, the dragon teamed up with the Mandarin to fight Iron Man. The dragon would sometimes appear in Iron Man comics after that, which is why it's considered an Iron Man villain, along with Mandarin.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/15/2021 at 3:56 PM, Bosco685 said:

So funny someone gets over-sensitive about the image of Stan Lee used in a post here.

Oh I get it, you meant as if Stan Lee is twisting his famous catchphrase and implying something more like "That's enough chatter from you." Ah okay. 'Nuff said.

[Bosco685]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:00 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Although it wasn't meant to be offensive when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the character, the name Fin Fang Foom, meant to sound "oriental" as the dragon was from Asia, is still a western depiction of "the Orient" in the 60's which was often filtered through stereotype views in western literature and yes, comic books. The name isn't that much different from another "Chinese" name filtered through western views like Fu Manchu even though the dragon itself was harmless from a sociological standpoint. 

 

On 11/15/2021 at 4:03 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Fin Fang Foom started as a short monster story in a pre-superhero Silver Age Marvel story. Later, the dragon teamed up with the Mandarin to fight Iron Man. The dragon would sometimes appear in Iron Man comics after that, which is why it's considered an Iron Man villain, along with Mandarin.

 

[Bosco685]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:09 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Oh I get it, you meant as if Stan Lee is twisting his famous catchphrase and implying something more like "That's enough chatter from you." Ah okay. 'Nuff said.

You like to twist Marvel history to fit your purple hair narrative. That's ugly!

[fantastic_four]

Here's the full story from Strange Tales 89; each image is clickable for a full, easily-readable version of the page.  Still reading it, but it very definitely is set entirely in China.  It also has some Communist stuff in it I need to mull over.

      

      

[Logan510]

Saw the movie on Disney+ over the weekeknd.

As a martial arts action thriller it was pretty decent.

As a Shang-Chi movie it was pretty awful.