MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[kav]

On 12/26/2021 at 6:41 PM, drotto said:

Sony is making lots of money, they have Venom and 75% of Spider-Man.  It is Disney with the issues (they have no claim to Venom), they lost on BW, and Eternals, made a little on Shang-Chi, but do get 25% of Spider-Man. Sony is in good place, Disney not so much.  They have also lost money on Encanto, Jungle Cruise, Luca (intended theatrical release that went to streaming) and technically West Side Story as well as other remnants from the Fox merger have lost money.  Granted those costs are technically already part on the purchase cost of Fox, so any money on those could be seen as a win. 

 

For Disney Spider-Man is really their only bright spot in the last 2 years.

I have no love for Disney anymore and would like to see them crash and burn financially.

[Finhead]

On 12/26/2021 at 7:41 PM, drotto said:

 

 

For Disney Spider-Man is really their only bright spot in the last 2 years.

And it's 75% Sony $$

On 12/26/2021 at 7:31 PM, kav said:

losses on BW and etenals should cancel gains by shangi chi and venom.  so spider man only thing propping them up.  they need to stop with the losers.

Drotto is right Venom is all Sony nothing to do with Disney and Spider man is 75% Sony one of the main reasons it's making $$ instead of the hot garbage diversity/inclusion/message Disney likes to focus on.

[kav]

On 12/26/2021 at 6:44 PM, Finhead said:

And it's 75% Sony $$

Drotto is right Venom is all Sony nothing to do with Disney and Spider man is 75% Sony one of the main reasons it's making $$ instead of the hot garbage diversity/inclusion/message Disney likes to focus on.

There was one movie-wish i could remember-it made $680 box office total.   I think it was about some athletes or something?

[kav]

Manos Hands of Fate kicked its ***

[drotto]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:43 PM, kav said:

I have no love for Disney anymore and would like to see them crash and burn financially.

Disney is not going anywhere.  Bob Chapek is a known penny pincher and will squeeze every bit of profit out of the various properties. Also as the pandemic lessens and the parks and tourism recover the Parks will be fine, and the Parks are their biggest moneymaker.  D+ will pick up, and was anticipated to be a loss leader for at least the first 4 or 5 years, so that is already baked in. Really the movie division is what is struggling, everything else will be fine. 

[kav]

Aw damn there's even bigger losers-films that made $30 and whatnot:
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/54571/11-movies-made-less-400-us-box-office

[paqart]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:44 PM, Finhead said:

And it's 75% Sony $$

Drotto is right Venom is all Sony nothing to do with Disney and Spider man is 75% Sony one of the main reasons it's making $$ instead of the hot garbage diversity/inclusion/message Disney likes to focus on.

Exactly! If I wanted propaganda, I'd move to China.

[Bosco685]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:48 PM, kav said:

I read that eternals has to make 680 million to break even-can you explain?

I think everyone explained it before me.

To account for the theater chain revenue-sharing agreements, Print & Advertising Budget, creator and cast potential revenue share arrangements and any other expenses to achieve profitablility a rule of thumb is a movie has to make well over 2.5X-2.8X production budget. 

Knowing that it surprises some Captain America: The First Avenger just barely broke even yet is assumed to be a financial success. Although with some of the older films (e.g. Superman II) it was different times so doing 2.0X made a film a success because it was so dependent on the domestic market. Even the film Constantine was a financial success for its time at 2.3X but received mixed critical reviews.

Eternals at 2.0X with that much star power and being the 26th film in the MCU franchise is not a success story. No matter how much some would say 'but they were Q-Level characters...'.

[drotto]

On 12/27/2021 at 7:52 AM, Bosco685 said:

I think everyone explained it before me.

To account for the theater chain revenue-sharing agreements, Print & Advertising Budget, creator and cast potential revenue share arrangements and any other expenses to achieve profitablility a rule of thumb is a movie has to make well over 2.5X-2.8X production budget. 

Knowing that it surprises some Captain America: The First Avenger just barely broke even yet is assumed to be a financial success. Although with some of the older films (e.g. Superman II) it was different times so doing 2.0X made a film a success because it was so dependent on the domestic market. Even the film Constantine was a financial success for its time at 2.3X but received mixed critical reviews.

Eternals at 2.0X with that much star power and being the 26th film in the MCU franchise is not a success story. No matter how much some would say 'but they were Q-Level characters...'.

Disney is already retooling stuff based on what has happened the previous year.  Dr Strange 2 is reported to be undergoing extensive reshoots, to the point where large chunks have been reshot.  This is reported happening after it tested poorly internally, and to add more cameos (Spider-Man infeunce).

[Finhead]

On 12/27/2021 at 7:30 AM, drotto said:

Disney is already retooling stuff based on what has happened the previous year.  Dr Strange 2 is reported to be undergoing extensive reshoots, to the point where large chunks have been reshot.  This is reported happening after it tested poorly internally, and to add more cameos (Spider-Man infeunce).

Problem is cramming more cameos into DS is not going to make it successful or better. The reason it worked for Spider Man is the way Sony worked the cameos in and made it a far better story. IMO that many reshoots to cram more characters in is just a sign of a bad movie that is most likely going to be worse.

[Artboy99]

On 12/28/2021 at 12:19 AM, Finhead said:

Problem is cramming more cameos into DS is not going to make it successful or better. The reason it worked for Spider Man is the way Sony worked the cameos in and made it a far better story. IMO that many reshoots to cram more characters in is just a sign of a bad movie that is most likely going to be worse.

I agree. A well written story with great character arcs will be what makes or breaks a film, not cameos. Wong and the Abomination made a cameo in Shang-Chi and I didn't care at all. They don't add anything to the story and are there for the required laugh that must occur at that exact moment as per the established formula and to create buzz / name dropping to increase the number of viewers. Is that the path of the Dr Strange 2, if so it does not bode well.

[paqart]

On 12/28/2021 at 2:19 AM, Finhead said:

Problem is cramming more cameos into DS is not going to make it successful or better. The reason it worked for Spider Man is the way Sony worked the cameos in and made it a far better story. IMO that many reshoots to cram more characters in is just a sign of a bad movie that is most likely going to be worse.

Agreed. Particularly if it is a woke story. I have zero interest in the Eternals because it looks so woke. Wrinkle in Time looked the same to me from the commercials, which is why I have yet to see it, though I always liked the book.  A measure of how good the early MCU movies are is how long I was willing to wait before finally deciding not to trust Marvel/Disney any more. With Pixar/Disney, Zootopia was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. After that, I assumed that all future productions would be bad unless proven otherwise and I avoided them. Since then, I haven't seen any animated movies from Disney/Pixar at theaters. With Marvel, it went like this:

1) Civil War: "That movie sure was strange. Stark went weak and woke. After that, nothing made sense. Surely it was just bad writing, not the insertion of unwelcome messages into an entertainment product."
2) Ragnarok: "Holy cow. They took my favorite character, Thor, and treated him disrespectfully throughout the film, as if making fun of his over-the-top masculinity, which is one of the things that made his character so much fun. This is like watching a bunch of well-dressed hoods beat up a homeless crippled child, not fun."
3) Black Panther: "Black Panther is a great character that I always liked from his run in the Avengers. Why on earth did they have to sell this as a movie about a black superhero, as opposed to an African superhero, or just a superhero?" The advertising put me off, causing me to delay watching it for several weeks. I finally went to the theater and saw it. The movie was less woke than Ragnarok (in my opinion) but I didn't like it anyway, largely due to what looked like lazy writing to me. My impression was that Marvel/Disney expected people to see it to prove something to their woke friends, so they didn't put as much effort into the ---script.

4) Captain Marvel: At this point I had decided to swear off the MCU. However, Dr. Strange had recently come out and I loved it. Still, I didn't like the Brie Larsen smug smirk, so I delayed several months before going to a theater to watch this film. It wasn't as horrible as I expected. Compared to many other movies not in the MCU, it was good. However, Larsen's personality grated on me. I also disliked how Marvel skipped over the "real" Captain Marvel to go straight to Ms. Marvel. On top of that, the Skrulls advanced morphing skills were totally wasted since it was always obvious who they were. Even worse, they made the Skrull bad guys into the innocent victims of the Kree. The first couple of times this particular trope appeared in movies it may have been interesting but not any more. Now, I go into movies expecting the bad guys to be the good guys and vice versa. I really hate this because it happens so often (especially at Disney) and because the bad guys are still bad guys. Making them more sympathetic doesn't change their history of bad acts, but with this particular trope, it has that effect.
5) I saw Infinity War as my "last MCU movie". I figured that, after watching all the rest, I had an obligation to watch IW, even if by then I had zero enthusiasm for MCU movies. Keep in mind that up until Civil War, I was in the habit of pulling out my full collection of MCU DVDs and watching them all in order before going out to see the latest installments of the series. I stopped buying the DVDs with Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Far From Home. So when I walked into Infinity War, it was as if I had never seen an MCU movie in the sense that I had no expectation that it would be good. As it turned out, I did like Infinity War. Then, Endgame came out and I gave up on Marvel. Endgame was, to me, the Zootopia of the MCU. After that, MCU was relegated to the "streaming only when desperate and I've already seen everything else" category. 

Keep in mind that I am an avid collector and even became a comic book artist, worked for Marvel at one time and then worked on the first Spider-Man movie and Daredevil as a visual effects artist. The production values in MCU movies are always excellent but I'd rather watch an episode of The Rockford Files than the stories they are producing now. If you want to see my reviews of MCU movies, you can find them on the BleedingFool.
 

Edited December 28, 2021 by paqart

[drotto]

On 12/28/2021 at 2:19 AM, Finhead said:

Problem is cramming more cameos into DS is not going to make it successful or better. The reason it worked for Spider Man is the way Sony worked the cameos in and made it a far better story. IMO that many reshoots to cram more characters in is just a sign of a bad movie that is most likely going to be worse.

Apparently, it was not just cameos being done.  A significant potion of the movie itself has been reshot, after it did not test well internally. This is another possible case of basically completely reworking the movie last minute. 

[Jaydogrules]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:59 AM, drotto said:

Apparently, it was not just cameos being done.  A significant potion of the movie itself has been reshot, after it did not test well internally. This is another possible case of basically completely reworking the movie last minute. 

...or Feige actually is panicking a little after seeing the disastrous theatrical results of the schlock he put out this year (not counting spider-man, of course, which I credit to Sony).

-J.

[paqart]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:48 AM, Jaydogrules said:

...or Feige actually is panicking a little after seeing the disastrous theatrical results of the schlock he put out this year (not counting spider-man, of course, which I credit to Sony).

-J.

Speaking of Sony, I enjoyed Venom more than any of the last 5-6 MCU movies. I am also looking forward to Morbius for the same reason. Maybe it was a bad thing that Marvel regained the rights to the Fantastic Four.

[alexgross.com]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:08 AM, paqart said:

3) Black Panther: "Black Panther is a great character that I always liked from his run in the Avengers. Why on earth did they have to sell this as a movie about a black superhero, as opposed to an African superhero, or just a superhero?"

if you're only now questioning why everything is about what group one identifies with, then i assume you have been living in a cave for several years. everything, especially in the usa, is about those adjectives that signify what racial, gender, or other group you identify as. the content of one's character seems far less important. 

i disagree with you powerfully about endgame though. the 2 movie pair of infinity war/endgame is second only to the 2 godfather movies in my estimation. i don't find it too woke, outside of the one gratuitous scene in the battle where the ladies assemble without any men. it's brief and tolerable. it also points out just how lame and small the group of female marvel heroes has been. 

eternals was certainly cast to appeal to every single identity group out there. they insisted on a deaf actor to play a deaf part. fair enough, and yet, the pakistani born actor (i love kumail najiani) had to play someone from india. pretty inconsistent/ clueless.

[paqart]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:44 PM, alexgross.com said:

if you're only now questioning why everything is about what group one identifies with, then i assume you have been living in a cave for several years.

I lived in the Netherlands for 12 years, from 2006-2018. They don't have free speech there but speech is much more free than it is here, even in 2006. In the years I was away, America changed a great deal. Returning to the states, to say the least, was a great shock. Also, while I was overseas, I spent almost half that time working on my PhD. I was too busy with that to pay attention to much else. I did notice the PC material in Civil War and Ragnarok but didn't realize they were part of an overall trend in the US. I wasn't "in a cave" but may as well have been. Not a bad guess on your part.

I have to say, it was refreshing to be able to talk about practically anything without getting upset or the other parties to the conversation getting upset.

[Chaos_in_Canada]

Behind the Magic: The Visual Effects of Marvel Studios' Eternals

 

[TupennyConan]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:32 PM, paqart said:

I lived in the Netherlands for 12 years, from 2006-2018. They don't have free speech there but speech is much more free than it is here, even in 2006. In the years I was away, America changed a great deal. Returning to the states, to say the least, was a great shock. Also, while I was overseas, I spent almost half that time working on my PhD. I was too busy with that to pay attention to much else. I did notice the PC material in Civil War and Ragnarok but didn't realize they were part of an overall trend in the US. I wasn't "in a cave" but may as well have been. Not a bad guess on your part.

I have to say, it was refreshing to be able to talk about practically anything without getting upset or the other parties to the conversation getting upset.

Quite a report. Thanks for sharing. 

[Bosco685]

Marvel’s ‘Eternals’ Director Chloé Zhao Reveals the Movie’s Original ‘Very Bleak’ Ending

Quote

Eternals was in no way the Marvel Cinematic Universe’s happiest film of 2021. From surprise betrayals to heartbreaking deaths, the movie wasn’t afraid to dive into a place of melancholy. However, according to director Chloé Zhao, Eternals could have ended on a much more somber note.

 

Zhao continued, “It used to end with everybody back on the ship, minds erased and just going on to another planet, like The Twilight Zone. I remember when it goes to black, everyone was like, ‘I don’t know what to do.’ And also, it’s the MCU, and you want to be excited for what’s next.”