MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[Buzzetta]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:42 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I see these things in part because I'm a student of film and I actually read about directors I admire, like Ang Lee. James Schamus, Ang's producer on many of his films, has stated that the point of almost every Ang Lee film was the idea of freedom from repression. In Brokeback Mountain, two cowboys find that freedom from societal norms on top of a mountain away from society. In Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, a Chinese woman finds freedom from the repression of Chinese women through the Green Destiny sword. In Hulk, both Bruce and David Banner find freedom from the repression of the human shell through a Hulk. Lee and the effects artists have themselves talked about the visual imagery in Hulk and about those strange seemingly random shots of jellyfish and mushroom clouds that resemble each other visually. In the end, David Banner turns into a giant Jellyfish over Pear Lake before he and Bruce are both taken out by a giant mushroom cloud. The metaphors are obvious to anyone with a brain. It's not a Rorschach test. It's actually there.

As I said, Ang Lee's Hulk is an unsung masterpiece of super-hero cinema. At this point, it's an irrelevant movie anyway so I don't mind being the only person in the room smart enough to see that.

I also didn't say I didn't like No Way Home. I'm an MCU fan so I freakin' love that movie. I just said it's not winning any real awards. It's the ultimate example of a fan service movie. You don't get awards for that except from MTV.

 

[kav]

I'd like to know how constant images of jellyfish and mushroom clouds, are obvious visual metaphors for genetics and nuclear power, the keys to unleashing humanity from its shell, for 'anyone with a brain'.  Please explain, Mr film student.

[Cat]

We walked out of Lee's Hulk. Hulk dogs? Yeah, we're outta here. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:45 PM, kav said:

There you go again.  
Sorry but the metaphors are not there.  What you see is not what others see, and you have a habit of assigning things to directors you have never met, based on nothing, as well as assigning metaphors out of the blue.
For a student of film though, I cant see how you think screenplay books are 'stupid', as you have stated.

You don't have to have personally met a director to understand their work or their intentions.

I understand Ang Lee's films because I've seen many of his movies, read his own interviews (or James Schamus who co-wrote many of Ang's films), and watch them again seeing the things they talk about visualized in the films. Yes, you can do that, too.

[kav]

On 1/19/2022 at 5:52 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

You don't have to have personally met a director to understand their work or their intentions.

Yes, you do.  Unless they have specifically stated it somewhere.  Please show me where christopher nolan ever said he entered the pitch meetin with "this movie is going to be about fear' or eternals director saying "I read the eternals where Kirby said 'eternals are as varied as humans, so that was why I chose a diverse cast'.

 

[Cat]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:52 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

You don't have to have personally met a director to understand their work or their intentions.

I understand Ang Lee's films because I've seen many of his movies, read his own interviews (or James Schamus who co-wrote many of Ang's films), and watch them again seeing the things they talk about visualized in the films. Yes, you can do that, too.

OR I could just watch a good movie or three in all that time. 

Yeah... that. 

[kav]

When someone believes their own assumptions.  

[Bosco685]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:59 PM, kav said:

When someone believes their own assumptions.  

"I'm a student of film that has won many awards as part of my Guitar Hero: Be A Movie Director game where I achieved Oscar status and 2 extra lives!"

[kav]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:04 PM, Bosco685 said:

"I'm a student of film that has won many awards as part of my Guitar Hero: Be A Movie Director game where I achieved Oscar status and 2 extra lives!"

Man I've never taken a film class but I read film directing and screenplay books like crazy.  I do not find them 'stupid'.  I find them fascinating.  I have written, storyboarded, directed and acted in short films, 5 to 15 minutes, because I love it.  I never entered em in any contests and whatnot I just love doing it.

[William-James88]

Since we are talking about this film, there's a scene I would like to talk about since it seems to be people's favourite but my wife and I both agree it's the worst part since it looks like dog s h i t. For some reason, many superhero movies shoot their scenes in a dark setting. Obviously, Avengers 1 and 2 do not, as do Raimi's first 2 spider-man films, and we can contrast that to the the later Spider-man films which have way more action scenes shot at night. Granted, those are still fine, but I much preffer the brightly lit fights. It gets pretty bad in other films though, like  Ang Lee's Hulk ( that Hulk fight vs the dogs and the one vs his dad which is looks atrocious). Again, I get it, not MCU, fine, havent got to the worst ones yet. There's that final scene in Captain Marvel which is far too dark and, to me, removes a lot of the fun and thrills to be had. And then we get to Eternals.

There is that one scene where they get to Druid's cult place in the forest and that lighting was beyond bizarre to both me and my wife. Like when in the day is this? Is it dark because trees are blocking the way? And it's wasn't dark in a way that you would feel either it was in a dimly lit area (like with Captain marvel) or because it was at night. What I mean is the lighting didn't seem to be linked to the setting. It was this uniform wash of ugly grey, removing a bunch of colour from the screen. People claim that to be the best fight scene. I disgree on two fronts. Firstly because I thin the fight against Icarus to be better (it's basically a fight straight out of Injustice or Dark Knight Strikes Again) and because that odd darker filter just makes it look so ugly.

So far it seems only me and my wife share this view, I was curious to know if any of you thought that scene looked really off.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:51 PM, kav said:

I'd like to know how constant images of jellyfish and mushroom clouds, are obvious visual metaphors for genetics and nuclear power, the keys to unleashing humanity from its shell, for 'anyone with a brain'.  Please explain, Mr film student.

I'm always delighted to talk about one of my favorite super-hero films ever.

Here is the opening credits scene for Hulk. The scene is itself a summation of the genetic nature of Hulk's origins. Notice the morphing nature of the Hulk logo itself, almost jelly-like. After that, the logo morphs into the jellyfish which is the first animal David Banner extracts "green" DNA from for his experiments which lead to the birth of the Hulk.

Here is Bruce's first nightmare scene where the image of jellyfish appear again. The jellyfish represent the genetic side of Hulk's birth.

Here is the scene of Bruce Banner's gamma lab accident which births the Hulk. At :53 seconds, we see the mushroom cloud of a gamma bomb that resembles the shape of a jellyfish. More metaphors.

In the scene below, starting at 1:15, David Banner tells Betty Ross his entire original intention was "to go beyond God's boundaries" aka find freedom from the repression of the human shell.

And in the final battle scene, starting at 3:45, as David Banner absorbs Bruce's power, he gets that wish and does "go beyond God's boundaries" and turns into a monster over Pear Lake, that looks just like a jellyfish or a nuclear bomb mushroom cloud, take your pick. Through those two powerful forces of nature, the genetic DNA of a jellyfish (among other things) and the power of the atom, David Banner becomes a Hulk God.

The metaphors are plain as day. This is the kind of stuff I like.

Edited January 20, 2022 by @therealsilvermane

[kav]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:27 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I'm always delighted to talk about one of my favorite super-hero films ever.

Here is the opening credits scene for Hulk. The scene is itself a summation of the genetic nature of Hulk's origins. Notice the morphing nature of the Hulk logo itself, almost jelly-like. After that, the logo morphs into the jellyfish which is the first animal David Banner extracts "green" DNA from for his experiments which lead to the birth of the Hulk.

Here is Bruce's first nightmare scene where the image of jellyfish appear again. The jellyfish represent the genetic side of Hulk's birth.

Here is the scene of Bruce Banner's gamma lab accident which births the Hulk. At :53 seconds, we see the mushroom cloud of a gamma bomb that resembles the shape of a jellyfish. More metaphors.

In the scene below, starting at 1:15, David Banner tells Betty Ross his entire original intention was "to go beyond God's boundaries" aka find freedom from the repression of the human shell.

And in the final battle scene, starting at 3:00, as David Banner absorbs Bruce's power, he gets that wish and does "go beyond God's boundaries" and turns into a monster over Pear Lake, that looks just like a jellyfish or a nuclear bomb mushroom cloud, take your pick. Through those two powerful forces of nature, the genetic DNA of a jellyfish (among other things) and the power of the atom, David Banner becomes a Hulk God.

The metaphors are plain as day. This is the kind of stuff I like.

Thats not a metaphor.  He directly got DNA from a jellyfish.  Jellyfish per se do not represent DNA.  Now I understand your confusion.  

[kav]

Youre having trouble with what a theme and a metaphor is, is all.  Combined with thinking you know what people you have never met think.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:23 PM, William-James88 said:

Since we are talking about this film, there's a scene I would like to talk about since it seems to be people's favourite but my wife and I both agree it's the worst part since it looks like dog s h i t. For some reason, many superhero movies shoot their scenes in a dark setting. Obviously, Avengers 1 and 2 do not, as do Raimi's first 2 spider-man films, and we can contrast that to the the later Spider-man films which have way more action scenes shot at night. Granted, those are still fine, but I much preffer the brightly lit fights. It gets pretty bad in other films though, like  Ang Lee's Hulk ( that Hulk fight vs the dogs and the one vs his dad which is looks atrocious). Again, I get it, not MCU, fine, havent got to the worst ones yet. There's that final scene in Captain Marvel which is far too dark and, to me, removes a lot of the fun and thrills to be had. And then we get to Eternals.

There is that one scene where they get to Druid's cult place in the forest and that lighting was beyond bizarre to both me and my wife. Like when in the day is this? Is it dark because trees are blocking the way? And it's wasn't dark in a way that you would feel either it was in a dimly lit area (like with Captain marvel) or because it was at night. What I mean is the lighting didn't seem to be linked to the setting. It was this uniform wash of ugly grey, removing a bunch of colour from the screen. People claim that to be the best fight scene. I disgree on two fronts. Firstly because I thin the fight against Icarus to be better (it's basically a fight straight out of Injustice or Dark Knight Strikes Again) and because that odd darker filter just makes it look so ugly.

So far it seems only me and my wife share this view, I was curious to know if any of you thought that scene looked really off.

In the establishing wide shot over the Amazon, we see that the sun is low, so it's either daybreak or sunset. Once we're in Druig's village, there is much activity and fires going, so I assume it's dinnertime. Later in the day, the light is darker. So the Druig jungle community scene is in the evening as the sun is setting on Earth.

[drotto]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:39 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

In the establishing wide shot over the Amazon, we see that the sun is low, so it's either daybreak or sunset. Once we're in Druig's village, there is much activity and fires going, so I assume it's dinnertime. Later in the day, the light is darker. So the Druig jungle community scene is in the evening as the sun is setting on Earth.

You are reading why to much into things, and convincing yourself you are brilliant, because you can pick up on these things.  Then you give everyone word salad as responses, as a way of trying to prove to everyone how smart you are.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:31 PM, kav said:

Youre having trouble with what a theme and a metaphor is, is all.  Combined with thinking you know what people you have never met think.

I don't expect you to believe anything I say at this point and to keep contrasting everything I say. The lengthy Hulk post above complete with video isn't just for you, it's also for myself and to just put it out there.

If you're honest about trying to understand film, try doing reading more about visual metaphors in film. I have a feeling you think you know everything, though.

[William-James88]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:39 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

In the establishing wide shot over the Amazon, we see that the sun is low, so it's either daybreak or sunset. Once we're in Druig's village, there is much activity and fires going, so I assume it's dinnertime. Later in the day, the light is darker. So the Druig jungle community scene is in the evening as the sun is setting on Earth.

Thanks, that scene still didn't feel like the lighting we were seeing was due to the in universe lighting. And if it was, I don't think it looked good. I have no clue when they actually shot it, but it really looked like just a filter, and there was no change in the light.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:42 PM, drotto said:

You are reading why to much into things, and convincing yourself you are brilliant, because you can pick up on these things.  Then you give everyone word salad as responses, as a way of trying to prove to everyone how smart you are.

In Druig's jungle village sequence, we see the sun is low. As time passes, the light is darker. It's obviously evening. How is that reading too much into the scene? I think you read too much into trying to contradict everything I say.

Edited January 20, 2022 by @therealsilvermane

[kav]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:46 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I don't expect you to believe anything I say at this point and to keep contrasting everything I say. The lengthy Hulk post above complete with video isn't just for you, it's also for myself and to just put it out there.

If you're honest about trying to understand film, try doing reading more about visual metaphors in film. I have a feeling you think you know everything, though.

well. I dont think screenplay books are stupid, for one thing-so when I read about visual metaphors I didnt roll my eyes.
If Banner had got DNA from a cockroach, would cockroaches be a metaphor for DNA?  the answer is no.
Someone here thinks they know everything-and it seems to be the guy who thinks screenplay books are stupid.

[kav]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:42 PM, drotto said:

You are reading why to much into things