UPDATED: My Nominee for the "First Great Comic Collector" 12 12

[Dave2739]

This thread.

[Mmehdy]

It appears I am not the only one who has responded to Bud's postings about past events.It appears the creation of "the BERKELEY comic art shop (see photo of early flyer) on his facebook post as the store first  originally called then Comix/Comix etc. According to Robert Beerbohm's latest facebook post addressing parts of Bud posting on the creation of the northern calif comic book shop in Berkeley last week of 1972 before world con in Sept 1972. According  his  factual recollection John Barrett had been one of Bob's first collectors in 1965 and were partners in semi comic book stores and deals. Bob  came up with the idea of comic book store near a large university after Bud asked Bob to help with his "John Barrett" as John wanted to escape the Lucky grocery store gig and John wanted a partner in Bud's mail order business. Bud said no way. John Barrett found the actual Berkeley Location. This is what happens, kind of like Stan created the marvel universe....etc It is a very interesting read on facebook and I would highly recommend it. Yes it is very controversial...beware, way to hot for the boards to post up his response. My response to bud seems tame.

I see one thing that Bud, Bob, and myself agree on. If you look at my Journey of a comic book collector series I posted on the boards, you should see shoutout to John Barrett as "the nicest guy in comics". It was real honor to know him, deal with him....a real gentle soul...he passed away in 2000 way too young. 

 My take is the truth lies somewhere in between... they did a test many years ago, had a guy run in class room and then have the class describe what he did and what did he look like...37 different opinions. I understand how important that store was to the comic book world we have today.But I also know I take everything in and then come to my own conclusion. One last outstanding point was bob's posting of how the direct market came about....I agree with that one that. "the  comic book direct market grew directly from the advent of Print Mint taking Zap Comics into national distribution in summer 1968 and onwards".....fascinating point!!!!

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Mmehdy

[sfcityduck]

On 8/12/2023 at 1:56 PM, Mmehdy said:

It appears I am not the only one who has responded to Bud's postings about past events.It appears the creation of "the BERKELEY comic art shop (see photo of early flyer) on his facebook post as the store first  originally called then Comix/Comix etc. According to Robert Beerbohm's latest facebook post addressing parts of Bud posting on the creation of the northern calif comic book shop in Berkeley last week of 1972 before world con in Sept 1972. According  his  factual recollection John Barrett had been one of Bob's first collectors in 1965 and were partners in semi comic book stores and deals. Bob  came up with the idea of comic book store near a large university after Bud asked Bob to help with his "John Barrett" as John wanted to escape the Lucky grocery store gig and John wanted a partner in Bud's mail order business. Bud said no way. John Barrett found the actual Berkeley Location. This is what happens, kind of like Stan created the marvel universe....etc It is a very interesting read on facebook and I would highly recommend it. Yes it is very controversial...beware, way to hot for the boards to post up his response. My response to bud seems tame.

I see one thing that Bud, Bob, and myself agree on. If you look at my Journey of a comic book collector series I posted on the boards, you should see shoutout to John Barrett as "the nicest guy in comics". It was real honor to know him, deal with him....a real gentle soul...he passed away in 2000 way too young. 

 My take is the truth lies somewhere in between... they did a test many years ago, had a guy run in class room and then have the class describe what he did and what did he look like...37 different opinions. I understand how important that store was to the comic book world we have today.But I also know I take everything in and then come to my own conclusion. One last outstanding point was bob's posting of how the direct market came about....I agree with that one that. "the  comic book direct market grew directly from the advent of Print Mint taking Zap Comics into national distribution in summer 1968 and onwards".....fascinating point!!!!

 

Mitch:

Without any judgment as to who's right or wrong, the last thing I want to see is this thread turning into a battle over the recollections and credibility of Bob Beerbohm versus anyone else. I've seen enough of those threads on this site to know that they often devolve into a highly vitriolic food fight. Bob shares his stories on his facebook site which is password protected and not public. There no reason to import Bob's stories over here - especially when Bob may not want them going public, which I assume from the security he has on his FB. If you feel the need to be Bob's gladiator - which Bob doesn't need as he doesn't seem at all shy about saying what he feels needs to be said - please do it somewhere else. 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by sfcityduck

[The Black Hand ®]

Are there any more collectors here who knew Barry Bauman and visited his "Bat Cave" up on High Street, I believe it was. I used to take the bus there. He was a bit older so he was like a hero to me.. What a kick it was to be able to root through all those boxes of books and thumb through them. I think it was Bob Beerbohm who told me how he passed all those years ago and the circumstances that may have led to it. Sad. For me that was the Golden age of collecting, but the girls and outside events took hold and I dumped the collection I had then. The second Golden age of collecting for me came in the late nineties early 2000's,  with Ebay coming in to play.

[Mmehdy]

On 8/12/2023 at 3:07 PM, sfcityduck said:

Mitch:

Without any judgment as to who's right or wrong, the last thing I want to see is this thread turning into a battle over the recollections and credibility of Bob Beerbohm versus anyone else. I've seen enough of those threads on this site to know that they often devolve into a highly vitriolic food fight. Bob shares his stories on his facebook site which is password protected and not public. There no reason to import Bob's stories over here - especially when Bob may not want them going public, which I assume from the security he has on his FB. If you feel the need to be Bob's gladiator - which Bob doesn't need as he doesn't seem at all shy about saying what he feels needs to be said - please do it somewhere else. 

 

SF Duck I am shocked that somehow have converted my bringing a second opinion awareness to the boards on a posted statement made by Bud Plant about Bob somehow qualifies me as a Gladiator for him,  or Bud, or Donald Duck or Huey, Louie, and Dewey.

Let me respond to your above post and correct what needs to be corrected.

1-If your are a member of facebook anyone can access Bob's two facebook pages. They are unrestricted. Please correct your post above using the edit button.

2-"Without judgement who is right or wrong"...you cannot made a true and informed judgment without looking at all. the facts, statements, and evidence. I will  NOT shut out the truth because it a inconvenience to you as an unappointed moderator wanting to put your head in the sand and not being aware of different points and provable facts. Everybody's opinion counts and the assertions that Bud made saying it was the biggest mistake of comix and comix was taking Bob on as a partner and the creation of the store itself. Well SF Duck, lets hear the other side. Bud bought it up, put it on a public form to comment on and I do need you to tell to go "somewhere else". because this is where the statements were made...this thead by Bud himself. Of course this shocking response which would unable to put up on the boards due to the current rules would create considerable response and controversy.  I am not Bob's mouthpiece and I resent your implication that I am. I did not even present the highlights of his response, more of a general comment and notice to give a read before a "rush to judgment". If I was bob's gladiator I would posted a LINK to the facebook page post...as you can do it for each post. Bob did go public SF Duck by posting on them  on FB and a half dozen comic book related  facebook  groups and since your post I contacted him and he is fully supportive of people reading his post from the boards.So please edit that too!

3-SF Duck please stick to being a mediator not a moderator.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Mmehdy

[sfcityduck]

On 8/12/2023 at 4:01 PM, Mmehdy said:

SF Duck I am shocked that somehow have converted my bringing a second opinion awareness to the boards on a posted statement made by Bud Plant about Bob somehow qualifies me as a Gladiator for him,  or Bud, or Donald Duck or Huey, Louie, and Dewey.

Let me respond to your above post and correct what needs to be corrected.

1-If your are a member of facebook anyone can access Bob's two facebook pages. They are unrestricted. Please correct your post above using the edit button.

2-"Without judgement who is right or wrong"...you cannot made a true and informed judgment without looking at all. the facts, statements, and evidence. I will  NOT shut out the truth because it a inconvenience to you as an unappointed moderator wanting to put your head in the sand and not being aware of different points and provable facts. Everybody's opinion counts and the assertions that Bud made saying it was the biggest mistake of comix and comix was taking Bob on as a partner and the creation of the store itself. Well SF Duck, lets hear the other side. Bud bought it up, put it on a public form to comment on and I do need you to tell to go "somewhere else". because this is where the statements were made...this thead by Bud himself. Of course this shocking response which would unable to put up on the boards due to the current rules would create considerable response and controversy.  I am not Bob's mouthpiece and I resent your implication that I am. I did not even present the highlights of his response, more of a general comment and notice to give a read before a "rush to judgment". If I was bob's gladiator I would posted a LINK to the facebook page post...as you can do it for each post. Bob did go public SF Duck by posting on them  on FB and a half dozen comic book related  facebook  groups and since your post I contacted him and he is fully supportive of people reading his post from the boards.So please edit that too!

3-SF Duck please stick to being a mediator not a moderator.

 

 

Mitch,

l am not FB anymore because my account was hacked and Zuckerberg doesn’t impress me. As for my statements about Bob:

(1) Bob used to have an informative FB group (I believe - if it was a site let me know) that delved into comic history. I had reached out to Bob about Wigransky. To get access to the group I had to get permission from the group moderator - Bob.  So that is the basis of my statements. My memory.  I have nothing to apologize for if you were referring to a different page/site or my memory is wrong (I don’t think it is as I may still have emails with Bob on this but haven’t checked).. That was an honest mistake on my part and I am man enough to let people see my mistakes and have no need to edit anything to wipe out the past. Certainly nothing I said was defamatory or critical of Bob. To the contrary, my point is Bob can defend himself.

(2) I am not trying to silence you. I am saying, to state the obvious, take it somewhere else. Start a thread titled “Bud is wrong and Bob is right!” Copy Bob’s post into that thread. No need to derail this thread.

(3) As for why I am calling you a gladiator for Bob it seem you chose to bring this dispute from FB to this thread. That was your choice. Here’s not a secret: You and I have both made a career out of being mouthpieces for others. My “elevator speech” when someone asks me my profession is to tell them I am a legal hit man. Because I am. My job is to win arguments. Which can lead to some seemingly harsh rhetoric when I forget that this is supposed to be a friendly place. Hence, I don’t think a year has gone by without a ban. I have been rightly criticized. So I understand your love of argument. 

(4) I think we have established I am not a mediator. I am a litigator. I like to argue and win. But Bud is a wiser man than me and he doesn’t need my help. I have no personal knowledge to bring to this debate. I would be surprised if you could find a critical comment by me of Bob or you (or Theo for that matter). In any event, I will do my best to keep this thread a civil space. Including attempting to appeal to your best instincts to not derail it.

So what say you?

 

[plady69]

On 8/12/2023 at 7:08 PM, sfcityduck said:

Mitch,

l am not FB anymore because my account was hacked and Zuckerberg doesn’t impress me. As for my statements about Bob:

(1) Bob used to have an informative FB group (I believe - if it was a site let me know) that delved into comic history. I had reached out to Bob about Wigransky. To get access to the group I had to get permission from the group moderator - Bob.  So that is the basis of my statements. My memory.  I have nothing to apologize for if you were referring to a different page/site or my memory is wrong (I don’t think it is as I may still have emails with Bob on this but haven’t checked).. That was an honest mistake on my part and I am man enough to let people see my mistakes and have no need to edit anything to wipe out the past. Certainly nothing I said was defamatory or critical of Bob. To the contrary, my point is Bob can defend himself.

(2) I am not trying to silence you. I am saying, to state the obvious, take it somewhere else. Start a thread titled “Bud is wrong and Bob is right!” Copy Bob’s post into that thread. No need to derail this thread.

(3) As for why I am calling you a gladiator for Bob it seem you chose to bring this dispute from FB to this thread. That was your choice. Here’s not a secret: You and I have both made a career out of being mouthpieces for others. My “elevator speech” when someone asks me my profession is to tell them I am a legal hit man. Because I am. My job is to win arguments. Which can lead to some seemingly harsh rhetoric when I forget that this is supposed to be a friendly place. Hence, I don’t think a year has gone by without a ban. I have been rightly criticized. So I understand your love of argument. 

(4) I think we have established I am not a mediator. I am a litigator. I like to argue and win. But Bud is a wiser man than me and he doesn’t need my help. I have no personal knowledge to bring to this debate. I would be surprised if you could find a critical comment by me of Bob or you (or Theo for that matter). In any event, I will do my best to keep this thread a civil space. Including attempting to appeal to your best instincts to not derail it.

So what say you?

 

A great thread ruined. Damn, I thought we were all adults. Sheesh…

[Randall Dowling]

It's still a great thread about a man who deserves to be remembered for his advocacy for comic books and the value of sequential story telling- Dave Wigransky.  I'm sad to read these last few entries of his life but I'm glad to know what happened to him.  And the end of his life does nothing to my admiration of his passion for comics before anyone else.  I've come to agree with @sfcityduck, he was the first great comic collector.  I'm richer for knowing his story, I hope others are as well.

I hope @Bud Plant will continue to share his memories of these earliest times of comic collecting.  Most of us, and our love for the medium, stand on the shoulders of that first generation that helped to preserve, document, and share great comics before anyone else.  There are fewer and fewer of those guys that can help shed light on the multitude of important events and I welcome all that are willing to share those stories.

[Mmehdy]

On 8/12/2023 at 7:08 PM, sfcityduck said:

Mitch,

l am not FB anymore because my account was hacked and Zuckerberg doesn’t impress me. As for my statements about Bob:

(1) Bob used to have an informative FB group (I believe - if it was a site let me know) that delved into comic history. I had reached out to Bob about Wigransky. To get access to the group I had to get permission from the group moderator - Bob.  So that is the basis of my statements. My memory.  I have nothing to apologize for if you were referring to a different page/site or my memory is wrong (I don’t think it is as I may still have emails with Bob on this but haven’t checked).. That was an honest mistake on my part and I am man enough to let people see my mistakes and have no need to edit anything to wipe out the past. Certainly nothing I said was defamatory or critical of Bob. To the contrary, my point is Bob can defend himself.

(2) I am not trying to silence you. I am saying, to state the obvious, take it somewhere else. Start a thread titled “Bud is wrong and Bob is right!” Copy Bob’s post into that thread. No need to derail this thread.

(3) As for why I am calling you a gladiator for Bob it seem you chose to bring this dispute from FB to this thread. That was your choice. Here’s not a secret: You and I have both made a career out of being mouthpieces for others. My “elevator speech” when someone asks me my profession is to tell them I am a legal hit man. Because I am. My job is to win arguments. Which can lead to some seemingly harsh rhetoric when I forget that this is supposed to be a friendly place. Hence, I don’t think a year has gone by without a ban. I have been rightly criticized. So I understand your love of argument. 

(4) I think we have established I am not a mediator. I am a litigator. I like to argue and win. But Bud is a wiser man than me and he doesn’t need my help. I have no personal knowledge to bring to this debate. I would be surprised if you could find a critical comment by me of Bob or you (or Theo for that matter). In any event, I will do my best to keep this thread a civil space. Including attempting to appeal to your best instincts to not derail it.

So what say you?

 

1-I am not derailing, just responding.

2- let’s move on

[sfcityduck]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:00 PM, Mmehdy said:

1-I am not derailing, just responding.

2- let’s move on

Thanks!

[Pat Calhoun]

haven't been here in a while, I hang out in the pulp-PB forum, and I hate to come back as bearer of bad news, but: Jon Berk has died, since we are talking mighty collectors. It is the end of a long struggle with dementia. I'll add more later (where to donate) but had to get this out now. RIP, my friend.

[Pat Calhoun]

Jon Stephen Berk | April 1, 1950 - August 10, 2023.
the message from his family (relayed to me by mighty collector Gary M Carter) included:
'we have thought to suggest a donation to Our Companions - in honor of Jon’s treasured dogs.' 

Our Companions

[sfcityduck]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:57 PM, Pat Calhoun said:

Jon Stephen Berk | April 1, 1950 - August 10, 2023.
the message from his family (relayed to me by mighty collector Gary M Carter) included:
'we have thought to suggest a donation to Our Companions - in honor of Jon’s treasured dogs.' 

Our Companions

Jon Berk was a tenacious seeker of knowledge, comics, and original art, and a generous sharer of his knowledge and images of his possessions.  I learned a lot from his posts and doubt he will be forgotten by many. My sympathy for his family and friends. We are richer for his life.

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/13/2023 at 12:57 AM, Pat Calhoun said:

Jon Stephen Berk | April 1, 1950 - August 10, 2023.
the message from his family (relayed to me by mighty collector Gary M Carter) included:
'we have thought to suggest a donation to Our Companions - in honor of Jon’s treasured dogs.' 

Our Companions

So sorry to learn of his passing; I wasn't aware of the extent of his declining health. He's certainly in the pantheon of great collectors and this is absolutely the perfect location to highlight it.  

Quite a few of us have acquired books in recent years from Jon's Collection; mine is this treasured Prize...

The warmth, spirit and humor in this cover seem to reflect Jon quite a lot, in my estimation.  Looking toward a time of peace and good will.

 

[Gotham Kid]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:37 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

Quite a few of us have acquired books in recent years from Jon's Collection; mine is this treasured Prize...

here's mine ( when the collection was offered on ComicConnect in 2017 )

[sfcityduck]

On 8/13/2023 at 12:37 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

So sorry to learn of his passing; I wasn't aware of the extent of his declining health. He's certainly in the pantheon of great collectors and this is absolutely the perfect location to highlight it.  

Quite a few of us have acquired books in recent years from Jon's Collection; mine is this treasured Prize...

The warmth, spirit and humor in this cover seem to reflect Jon quite a lot, in my estimation.  Looking toward a time of peace and good will.

 

Cat, It’s what?, 2:37 in Texas or Oklahoma? I knew your wife was a celebrated author of a vampire series. You must have been a major inspiration for her nocturnal characters! 

Edited August 13, 2023 by sfcityduck

[Robot Man]

Jon may not be the first and he won’t be the last of the giants in this hobby but I for one benefitted for his zeal and passion. We need to encourage and hope more of the old guard continue to pass on their experiences while they are still with us. We recently lost Ray Storch. A legendary Bay Area collector and dealer and a good friend. Like creators, a lot of legendary collectors are sadly leaving us…

[jimbo_7071]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:37 AM, Robot Man said:

Jon may not be the first and he won’t be the last of the giants in this hobby but I for one benefitted for his zeal and passion. We need to encourage and hope more of the old guard continue to pass on their experiences while they are still with us. We recently lost Ray Storch. A legendary Bay Area collector and dealer and a good friend. Like creators, a lot of legendary collectors are sadly leaving us…

It's sad to think about, but I guess it's to be expected with the passage of time when you consider that a lot of these guys got started around the same time—as the hobby was really taking off—and are in the same age range. I'm glad that some of them have shared stories here on the boards and elsewhere.

I took a ten year break from the hobby and came back in 2012 to learn that some guys whose names I recognized had passed on (Bruce Hamilton, Jerry Weist, Harry Thomas, who discovered the Cookevile collection . . . probably some others who aren't coming to mind immediately). I can't help but wonder how many guys whose names or handles I recognize would be gone if I were to take that 10-year break now and come back in 2033. Sadly, I fear it would be quite a few.

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/13/2023 at 2:53 AM, sfcityduck said:

Cat, It’s what?, 2:37 in Texas or Oklahoma? I knew your wife was a celebrated author of a vampire series. You must have been a major inspiration for her nocturnal characters! 

2:37 in both states unfortunately (mine being the big one further to the South).

Alas, insomnia.  I rarely get more than four to five hours of sleep a night and rarely crash before 5 AM. Last night was no exception, although I slept to noon and feel much more rested (6 hours plus, woo-hoo).  My late wife wrote the Morganville Vampires series and the even more successful Stillhouse Lake series, Fortunately, I've got more in common with her vampire's sleeping habits than with her harassed serial killer's families. 

[MrBedrock]

On 8/12/2023 at 3:56 PM, Mmehdy said:

It appears I am not the only one who has responded to Bud's postings about past events.It appears the creation of "the BERKELEY comic art shop (see photo of early flyer) on his facebook post as the store first  originally called then Comix/Comix etc. According to Robert Beerbohm's latest facebook post addressing parts of Bud posting on the creation of the northern calif comic book shop in Berkeley last week of 1972 before world con in Sept 1972. According  his  factual recollection John Barrett had been one of Bob's first collectors in 1965 and were partners in semi comic book stores and deals. Bob  came up with the idea of comic book store near a large university after Bud asked Bob to help with his "John Barrett" as John wanted to escape the Lucky grocery store gig and John wanted a partner in Bud's mail order business. Bud said no way. John Barrett found the actual Berkeley Location. This is what happens, kind of like Stan created the marvel universe....etc It is a very interesting read on facebook and I would highly recommend it. Yes it is very controversial...beware, way to hot for the boards to post up his response. My response to bud seems tame.

I see one thing that Bud, Bob, and myself agree on. If you look at my Journey of a comic book collector series I posted on the boards, you should see shoutout to John Barrett as "the nicest guy in comics". It was real honor to know him, deal with him....a real gentle soul...he passed away in 2000 way too young. 

 My take is the truth lies somewhere in between... they did a test many years ago, had a guy run in class room and then have the class describe what he did and what did he look like...37 different opinions. I understand how important that store was to the comic book world we have today.But I also know I take everything in and then come to my own conclusion. One last outstanding point was bob's posting of how the direct market came about....I agree with that one that. "the  comic book direct market grew directly from the advent of Print Mint taking Zap Comics into national distribution in summer 1968 and onwards".....fascinating point!!!!

 

If there is anyone we know we can count on to accurately and definitively recount the past, that person is Bob Beerbohm.