CGC announces NEW Pedigree Labels and NEW Pedigrees 3 3

[newshane]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:35 AM, sagii said:

Exciting info , but how many of us will be resubmitting for the black label

I'm sending mine Monday.

 

[bluechip]

I am glad for any development that leads to more information on labels, such as where a book came from, if they know its origin.    

So, while I not a fan of colored labels, in general, I think the black "pedigree" label can be helpful in that CGC can, if they like, identify a book's origin on the label without as much concern that some collectors will have an apoplexy, because a book's source should only be identified if it's a "pedigree" and it can only be a "pedigree" if it's from a collection which had many high grade books.   Now, CGC can ID a book's source and simply leave the word "pedigree" out of the mix.

 

 

[N e r V]

2 minutes ago, newshane said:

I'm sending mine Monday.

 

So their evil plan is already working...

 

 

[newshane]

6 minutes ago, N e r V said:

So their evil plan is already working...

 

Yes. I am a sucker. TAKE MY MONEY I MUST HAVE THE LATEST AND GREATEST SLABS AND LABELS! 

 

[Tbone911t]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

 

Yes, since it seems that many of these new pedigrees will have books in similar condition as the one pictured above, I wonder if CGC will have to revise their definition as to what a pedigree book is.

Especially the one to do with condition, since I believe some of these new pedigrees would not meet this particular criteria:  

• The collection must be high-grade. Comics from the Silver Age in general would have to be 9.2 and higher, and a collection of exclusive Silver Age material must have an average grade of 9.4. Golden Age comics would have to be high-grade as well. For example, the Lost Valley collection consisted of many golden age books from before 1941 that were technically mid-grade, but were almost across the board the highest graded copy for that book. Page quality must be nice as well.

I tend to agree. The other guys recognize the Jerome Wenker collection. I had a 0.3 from that collection..........

[bronze johnny]

CGC will eventually get (not so smart) people to slab the dead. No need to bury or cremate. Just slab and put in a box.

[N e r V]

13 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

CGC will eventually get (not so smart) people to slab the dead. No need to bury or cremate. Just slab and put in a box.

Cool. So one day I might be able to win a CGC Bedrock, Ricksneatstuff and Bounty Coder with ow/w skin quality on a comic link auction? Hopefully no staining on the bones...

 

That is so super creepy... 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by N e r V

[bronze johnny]

Just now, N e r V said:

Cool. So one day I might be able to win a CGC Bedrock, Ricksneatstuff and Bounty Coder with ow/w skin quality on a comic link auction?

 

That is so super creepy... 

 

Make sure you get the sparkling Embalmed label for an extra $50.00.

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

Yes, since it seems that many of these new pedigrees will have books in similar condition as the one pictured above, I wonder if CGC will have to revise their definition as to what a pedigree book is.

Especially the one to do with condition, since I believe some of these new pedigrees would not meet this particular criteria:  

• The collection must be high-grade. Comics from the Silver Age in general would have to be 9.2 and higher, and a collection of exclusive Silver Age material must have an average grade of 9.4. Golden Age comics would have to be high-grade as well. For example, the Lost Valley collection consisted of many golden age books from before 1941 that were technically mid-grade, but were almost across the board the highest graded copy for that book. Page quality must be nice as well.

The actual word pedigree refers more to somethings line or lineage or origins. An original owner collection will fit that description. However people can and do dress up the term to something like “a fine lineage” so it’s a subjective term at that point. 

In comics I don’t think we will ever have a general consensus of what “deserves” to “earn” that term so if CGC wants to do their own list I don’t see it being more correct or less correct than other people’s imagined thoughts of what “is worthy” for the label note.

I would respectfully strongly disagree with your point of view here.  

Although the word "pedigree" would indeed have many differnt connations in terms of its general public usage, it has had a long held clear and succinct meaning in the sphere of the comic book hobby place.  Being a long term collector in this hobby, I am definitely much more in tune with Overstreet's definition of the word "pedigree", which is as follows:

 "A book from a famous nd unusally high grade collection - e.g. Allentown, Lamont Larson, Edgar Church/Mile High, Denver, San Francisco, Cosmic Aeroplane, etc.  Beware of non-pedigree collections being promoted as pedigree books: only outstanding high grade collections similar to those listed qualify."  

Even in terms of CGC itself, it has (or had ) always set relatively high criteria before it will declare that a collection is considered to be a pedigree.  These criteria included original ownership, vintage material including the presence of key books, breadth of collection, size of collection, and most definitely, books of high grade quality.  Looks like CGC will have to be revising their definition next week and downgrading their threshold criteria accordingly when they add in some of these new pedigrees.  

Personally, you will never be able to convince me that a Harold Curtis or an Eldon book should be treated in the same light as a Edgar Church or a Tom Reilly book, or that a Cookville book should be viewed the same as an Allentown or a Denver book.  To each their own, but that's just crazy talk to me.   

[lou_fine]

16 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

Can a submitter choose which color? If I prefer the blue label with the pedigree designation can I have that instead of the black? Or from this point forward will pedigrees automatically be given a black label?

So, are you trying to tell us that there's absolutely no truth to the rumours that you've rebooked your flights to SD to ensure that you would be first in line at the CGC booth to get these new and improved labels from them for all of your Edgar Church and Allentown books?    

Edited July 13, 2019 by lou_fine

[N e r V]

40 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I would respectfully strongly disagree with your point of view here.  

Although the word "pedigree" would indeed have many differnt connations in terms of its general public usage, it has had a long held clear and succinct meaning in the sphere of the comic book hobby place.  Being a long term collector in this hobby, I am definitely much more in tune with Overstreet's definition of the word "pedigree", which is as follows:

 "A book from a famous nd unusally high grade collection - e.g. Allentown, Lamont Larson, Edgar Church/Mile High, Denver, San Francisco, Cosmic Aeroplane, etc.  Beware of non-pedigree collections being promoted as pedigree books: only outstanding high grade collections similar to those listed qualify."  

Even in terms of CGC itself, it has (or had ) always set relatively high criteria before it will declare that a collection is considered to be a pedigree.  These criteria included original ownership, vintage material including the presence of key books, breadth of collection, size of collection, and most definitely, books of high grade quality.  Looks like CGC will have to be revising their definition next week and downgrading their threshold criteria accordingly when they add in some of these new pedigrees.  

Personally, you will never be able to convince me that a Harold Curtis or an Eldon book should be treated in the same light as a Edgar Church or a Tom Reilly book, or that a Cookville book should be viewed the same as an Allentown or a Denver book.  To each their own, but that's just crazy talk to me.   

I’ve been collecting since 1973 and I consider much of Overstreet outdated on many things.

My point was to each his own with their views...

Edited July 13, 2019 by N e r V

[lou_fine]

12 minutes ago, N e r V said:

My point was to each his own with their views...

In 100% agreement with you on this particulat point.  

[bronze johnny]

43 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I would respectfully strongly disagree with your point of view here.  

Although the word "pedigree" would indeed have many differnt connations in terms of its general public usage, it has had a long held clear and succinct meaning in the sphere of the comic book hobby place.  Being a long term collector in this hobby, I am definitely much more in tune with Overstreet's definition of the word "pedigree", which is as follows:

 "A book from a famous nd unusally high grade collection - e.g. Allentown, Lamont Larson, Edgar Church/Mile High, Denver, San Francisco, Cosmic Aeroplane, etc.  Beware of non-pedigree collections being promoted as pedigree books: only outstanding high grade collections similar to those listed qualify."  

Even in terms of CGC itself, it has (or had ) always set relatively high criteria before it will declare that a collection is considered to be a pedigree.  These criteria included original ownership, vintage material including the presence of key books, breadth of collection, size of collection, and most definitely, books of high grade quality.  Looks like CGC will have to be revising their definition next week and downgrading their threshold criteria accordingly when they add in some of these new pedigrees.  

Personally, you will never be able to convince me that a Harold Curtis or an Eldon book should be treated in the same light as a Edgar Church or a Tom Reilly book, or that a Cookville book should be viewed the same as an Allentown or a Denver book.  To each their own, but that's just crazy talk to me.   

Have to agree with you on this. Cookvilles, Eldons, and Harold Curtis books at best should be designated "Collections." I'd argue that Edenwalds and Sid's Luncheonette books would be more deserving than these books. 

Nevertheless. CGC is a profit motivated private business that can decide what it wants on the label. It's the consensus of collectors who define what's a pedigree book after applying criteria (Overstreet's definition is the standard many of us have used). Really, CGC is a grading company and will always be a noted for grading. It's their business if they want to start putting collections that don't warrant pedigree status on the label. There's no reason collectors in the know have to accept it. Let the less informed or uninformed person go ahead and take what a comic book grading company defines as a pedigree. Should we all go to a car mechanic to get their opinion on what car is a classic and which are not?

[sagii]

3 hours ago, newshane said:

I'm sending mine Monday.

 

Please post when they come back to you!

[newshane]

2 hours ago, sagii said:

Please post when they come back to you!

I will! 

I have one super nice one...and three other interesting ones, which I love. 

I'm not too deep into the pedigree game yet, so it won't cost a fortune to upgrade. I absolutely love pedigrees though! 

[newshane]

4 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

Have to agree with you on this. Cookvilles, Eldons, and Harold Curtis books at best should be designated "Collections."

Serious question here with no foul intent...

why? Please explain. 

[bronze johnny]

Just now, newshane said:

Serious question here with no foul intent...

why? Please explain. 

Books from these collections are not consistently and "usually high grade." Books from the Cookeville collection are all over the place when it comes to grades. Eldons and Curtis books are no where near the quality of the pedigree Palo Altos, White Mountains, Spokanes, etc. Take a look at books from the Edenwald and Sid's Lucheonette collections and you'll see high grade books that lack the "depth" of the pedigree collections I've mentioned but are consistently nicer on average than the Cookevilles, Eldons, and Harold Curtis books.

[adamstrange]

9 hours ago, newshane said:

Serious question here with no foul intent...

why? Please explain. 

My expectation is that a pedigree comic will exhibit a combination of structural quality (minimal physical defects), page quality and cover color/gloss so as to make it standout from other non-ped copies. The Eldon Cookeville etc look rather typical and don't stand out from other copies sufficient to be a pedigree, though I do think it a good thing for their provenance to be noted on the label.

[telerites]

Someone mentioned earlier and I hope Detroit Trolleys - the two I have are structurally very sound and bright vibrant cover colors.  I bought them from Marnin and I am sure I have probably read the backstory but what keeps them from being considered?

Were Toledo, Sherwood, and Diamond Run the only peds that lost their status?  And I know Mile High II but that was some quirky deal with Chuckster wasn't it, with the initial sub of the books?

[entalmighty1]

1 hour ago, telerites said:

Someone mentioned earlier and I hope Detroit Trolleys - the two I have are structurally very sound and bright vibrant cover colors.  I bought them from Marnin and I am sure I have probably read the backstory but what keeps them from being considered?

Were Toledo, Sherwood, and Diamond Run the only peds that lost their status?  And I know Mile High II but that was some quirky deal with Chuckster wasn't it, with the initial sub of the books?

There are Toledo books slabbed with the new cases running around now.  I have one, but it's old label, and I was always hesitant to resubmit it because it wasn't listed on their website anymore.