When will the other shoe drop with CGC and the 'crack, press, and resub' game? 3 3

[James J Johnson]

9 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

 

You joined these forums in 2017.  Where were you learning about pressing and such before that?   Where were you when CGC was pressing books in secret for select clients?  Where did you learn about SCS?

I'm literate. I read. I talk. I listen. It is possible that I've been a hobbyist stretching back farther than 2017, right? .  

Edited July 24, 2019 by James J Johnson

[comicwiz]

Just now, James J Johnson said:

So to be fair, everybody should only collect the exact same thing as everyone else for investment? And store it in the exact same way? And buy it at the exact same time? For the same price? And sell at precisely the same time, all for the same price?. And all have an equal understanding and equal hobby IQ? And all of these people doing exactly the same thing are all going to profit equally? And this is the only way in which a marketplace is fair? And the stock market should work this way too? everybody has the same info, makes the same decision, buys the same stock at the same price, etc., etc., etc.... and this is the only way a fair marketplace works?

Sounds to me like the "everybody who enters gets a first place trophy" contest. Like whether you come in first or one hundredth, you win. But not really.

I have no idea why you are deciding to twist words in this manner. Disclosure is a hot button topic in every major purchase made, which includes vehicles and homes. With the value of some of these comics exceeding the value of many hard-working people's cars and homes, why would you expect anyone to get a free pass to not disclose they have done work to the comic to appear in better condition at the point of selling?

Show the before and after, tell them you took it from a VF to NM - what's the hang-up? If people have no qualms about disclosure, just tell it all.

I have no idea why consumers needing to have this information to make an informed choice has anything to do with "everyone getting trophy's", it's about being aboveboard, honest, and your reputation only being as good as your last deal.

If making a quick buck is more important than having your reputation thrown to the wind, then nothing I or others can say here will have any substance or meaning to you.

[THE_BEYONDER]

3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

I'm literate. I read. I talk. I listen. It is possible that I've been a hobbyist going stretching back farther than 2017, right? .  

Of course.  I'm not  suggesting you're new to the hobby.  I'm just curious how you learned about it all.

Edited July 24, 2019 by THE_BEYONDER

[James J Johnson]

4 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

I have no idea why you are deciding to twist words in this manner. Disclosure is a hot button topic in every major purchase made, which includes vehicles and homes. With the value of some of these comics exceeding the value of many hard-working people's cars and homes, why would you expect anyone to get a free pass to not disclose they have done work to the comic to appear in better condition at the point of selling?

Show the before and after, tell them you took it from a VF to NM - what's the hang-up? If people have no qualms about disclosure, just tell it all.

I have no idea why consumers needing to have this information to make an informed choice has anything to do with "everyone getting trophy's", it's about being aboveboard, honest, and your reputation only being as good as your last deal.

If making a quick buck is more important than having your reputation thrown to the wind, then nothing I or others can say here will have any substance or meaning to you.

Because you stated that everybody should have the same knowledge. If we all had the same knowledge, everybody would be a billionaire. But that's not how some become billionaires and others don't. If everyone was a billionaire, the money would have no value. Think billions of marks in post WW 1 Germany.

Edited July 24, 2019 by James J Johnson

[James J Johnson]

1 minute ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Of course.  I'm not  suggesting you're new to the hobby.  I'm just curious how you learned about it all.

God bless the internet. And I'm also a good listener.

[comicwiz]

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

Because you stated that everybody should have the same knowledge.

And you have a join date of 2017. C'mon man, if you're going to debate, don't sound lame when you're going to recoil.

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, wombat said:

I'm not sure the general public of comic collectors is aware of pressing. Or how prevalent it might be. Serious collectors? Sure. CGC collectors? Not as sure. I never heard of it until I joined the boards here. 

2014 was a completely different time with regard to pressing. There weren't pressers with giant banners advertising their pressing like "Rocket Comics" and "Condition Potential Realization Service" on convention floors. That's now the change.

If a person submits to CGC, they're going to (usually) be asked if they want pressing. I imagine the same thing is true of CBCS. In 2014, CBCS had barely started, and the submission forms (back when there were still forms) hadn't yet incorporated CCS.

When I have worked as a facilitator/authorized submission dropoff, pressing is discussed with everyone. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

are we still talking shoes  

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Once upon a time, I posted about creating a CGC handbook that would help collectors navigate this age of encapsulation.  Soon after I got a strike for “failing to foster productive discourse”.

Gag. That's all I'm allowed to say.

[James J Johnson]

1 minute ago, comicwiz said:

And you have a join date of 2017. C'mon man, if you're going to debate, don't sound lame when you're going to recoil.

Lame? Recoil?

"Everybody should have the same knowledge"?, you say? "For it to be fair?"

OK.. Easier to agree than waste more time. You're right!  Back to School FantasyLand stuff.

Carry on with your anti-CGC crusade. Disrespect someone else.

Out before the lock.

[THE_BEYONDER]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

1 hour ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Once upon a time, I posted about creating a CGC handbook that would help collectors navigate this age of encapsulation.  Soon after I got a strike for “failing to foster productive discourse”.

Gag. That's all I'm allowed to say.

Spit it out

[ADAMANTIUM]

I'm wondering the point of this thread...

The next time one starts and it will, I'll say not that many people dislike pressing.... which will be true, because most don't know about it.....

In response I'll get, "you want to vote on that?" Because this thread won't be remembered....

lesson learned

 

 

[JWKyle]

@RockMyAmadeus you were on the CBCS board for a bit as was i. The whole pressing issue is a NON-issue on that board. Heck they celebrate the pictures DiceX posts of some of his results. 

12 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

I have no idea why you are deciding to twist words in this manner. Disclosure is a hot button topic in every major purchase made, which includes vehicles and homes. With the value of some of these comics exceeding the value of many hard-working people's cars and homes, why would you expect anyone to get a free pass to not disclose they have done work to the comic to appear in better condition at the point of selling?

Show the before and after, tell them you took it from a VF to NM - what's the hang-up? If people have no qualms about disclosure, just tell it all.

I have no idea why consumers needing to have this information to make an informed choice has anything to do with "everyone getting trophy's", it's about being aboveboard, honest, and your reputation only being as good as your last deal.

If making a quick buck is more important than having your reputation thrown to the wind, then nothing I or others can say here will have any substance or meaning to you.

So are you anti-pressing or just wanting disclosure ?

[comicwiz]

13 minutes ago, JWKyle said:

So are you anti-pressing or just wanting disclosure ?

Disclosure. It would be great if every bit of work performed, every detail of it, is described. Did you lift dust with tissue, use an eraser, naphtha. If the corrective work was to remedy paper degradation (i.e. foxing), whatever was used to remove it should be disclosed, as well as photos showing what was there prior. Dissambly is a no-go for me, as is CT removal, and any dastardly attempt to mask PLOD, so it goes without saying that when it starts getting into more extensive "doctoring" it better be disclosed.

Edited July 24, 2019 by comicwiz

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

I think someone that managed to  preserve their books in pristine condition should be rewarded more so than someone that couldn’t. 

I don't disagree with you at all. But you're suggesting the (mostly) impossible. There's really no way to separate the two, in any meaningful, functional way.

And the other side of that are the fixers, the people who are nagged by the things they could make better. And more people want the best looking book possible...whether their motive is financial, or whether they just like things that look the best. We clean houses and cars and boats and other things all the time. It's a weird quirk of human nature to want to have things be as nice as they can be.

[James J Johnson]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm wondering the point of this thread...

The next time one starts and it will, I'll say not that many people dislike pressing.... which will be true, because most don't know about it.....

In response I'll get, "you want to vote on that?" Because this thread won't be remembered....

lesson learned

 

 

It doesn't have a point, other than primarily, bashing CGC. That's the point. The thread opens with a comparison between the trimmed, bleached, and fake cards in slabs and equates comic pressing and those books in CGC slabs to that. Then intimates that there will be a scandal here that rocks this hobby over pressing, like trimming, bleaching and fake cards in slabs are in that hobby.

This is followed by OP's constant theme of resentment towards anyone spending "big money" on CGC and/or pressed comics and wanting to educate the masses on how and what to spend their money on. Control. George Orwell stuff.

That's the point of this thread. Negativity about the hobby, negativity about CGC, resentment towards the spending of money and a desire to control and dictate what money should be spent on and not spent on.

That's my take on it.

[comicwiz]

3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Control. George Orwell stuff.

[RockMyAmadeus]

5 minutes ago, JWKyle said:

@RockMyAmadeus you were on the CBCS board for a bit as was i. The whole pressing issue is a NON-issue on that board. Heck they celebrate the pictures DiceX posts of some of his results. 

Indeed, although the CBCS board suffers, among many other things, from a distinct lack of mature voices (mainly because their administration suffers from the same thing.) I have no problem with disclosure. I like disclosing what I've done, because it makes me happy. Not because this book is now worth $XXXX more now!!!, but because it looks better. I'm thrilled to no end that pressing can take an 8.0 and turn it into a 9.4. Absolutely thrilled with it, and I like showing off those things...not because I want to brag, but because I am endlessly amazed...even now, nearly 10 years later...at what is possible with just a little bit of heat, a little bit of moisture, and a little bit of pressure. I think it's neat as hell. It's like the guys who show off their cars that they took from rusting heaps to showroom pieces. Same principle. Taking something and making it better.

[RockMyAmadeus]

14 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Spit it out

You're well aware of my tenuous relationship with those in charge.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, Logan510 said:

 I think it's silly for anyone to claim that "most" collectors know about pressing. 

Which is good, since nobody said that. Context.