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When will the other shoe drop with CGC and the 'crack, press, and resub' game?
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Started by comicwiz,

873 posts in this topic

Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

I'll give you that the majority of comic collectors do not know about pressing.

The overwhelming majority - perhaps 100% - of people buying CGC slabs absolutely knows about pressing.

A majority of slab buyers, sure. But considering some of the :censored: newbs post in the Newbie Comic Collecting Questions and Comic Book Grading and Restoration Issues forums (not that other sections are immune), there's no way it's even near 100%, and that's only the people who bother to come here and post to let us know they're clueless.

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

The problem that exists with CGC notating which books were pressed by CCS and which were not is that it can't be done consistently with books that are not pressed by CCS.

And that is also the problem with detecting pressing. Even if you guess correctly on half the books, the other half are a coin toss.

CGC is not in the business of selling coin toss opinions. People pay for an educated opinion, not a guess.

They won't declare a book as restored, or trimmed (or whatever) unless they are sure it's so.

Do you want them guessing on pressing? Nobody does. We're paying big dollars for books because we believe they are NOT guessing.

The contradictions in this stance are many.

When a book has been pressed by CCS, CGC can know with absolute certainty that the book has been pressed.  Denoting it on the label would provide certainty, and not a guess.

It's been argued that CCS would be put at a disadvantage if CGC were to denote its business on the label - the implication of this argument is that collectors as a whole would prefer unpressed comics to pressed ones.  Yet that's precisely the problem with pressing without disclosure, as the collector is being deluded rather than informed, and forced to guess, which is what you were saying shouldn't happen.  

It's circular arguing at it's finest.

 

 

Edited by namisgr
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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, namisgr said:

The contradictions in this stance are many.

When a book has been pressed by CCS, CGC can know with absolute certainty that the book has been pressed.  Denoting it on the label would provide certainty, and not a guess.

It's been argued that CCS would be put at a disadvantage if CGC were to denote its business on the label - the implication of this argument is that collectors as a whole would prefer unpressed comics to pressed ones.  Yet that's precisely the problem with pressing without disclosure, as the collector is being deluded rather than informed, and forced to guess, which is what you were arguing shouldn't happen.  

 

Your argument is invalid. 

Why? 

Money. 

Why would CGC EVER notate that a book was pressed by CCS?  That would be incredibly foolish.  So they can tell that CCS pressed a book.  Guess what I am going to do.  NEVER SEND MY BOOKS TO CCS. (It's more fun if you reread the capitalized words in the voice of Norm MacDonald)   So I will send my books to Joey or RMA... then I will ask them to send the books back to me and then I will submit it to CGC where they will have to flip the proverbial coin to try and figure out if the book was pressed. 

The end result... everyone does this instead of sending their books to CCS.  CCS fails as an extension of CGC.  CGC no likey. 

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Your argument is invalid. 

Why? 

Money. 

Why would CGC EVER notate that a book was pressed by CCS?  That would be incredibly foolish.  So they can tell that CCS pressed a book.  Guess what I am going to do.  NEVER SEND MY BOOKS TO CCS. (It's more fun if you reread the capitalized words in the voice of Norm MacDonald)   So I will send my books to Joey or RMA... then I will ask them to send the books back to me and then I will submit it to CGC where they will have to flip the proverbial coin to try and figure out if the book was pressed. 

The end result... everyone does this instead of sending their books to CCS.  CCS fails as an extension of CGC.  CGC no likey. 

Exactly.  While most collectors wouldn't care if a comic were denoted as having been pressed, others would, and so books noted that way would be less desirable in the marketplace overall.  So collectors are left to guess. If that doesn't tell you the problem with undisclosed pressing for collectors who prefer their comics unpressed, nothing will.

And it's not just an issue with CGC.  You see the following disclaimer in sales threads on the boards quite a lot: "consider all books as having been pressed".  This statement is made by sellers who know with certainty whether they had a comic pressed.  If they're all pressed, or one or two weren't for various reasons, why not disclose the fact and say so, removing any ambiguity?  Can't remember when a book is being offered for sale whether you had it pressed or not before slabbing?  Keep a record.

 

Edited by namisgr
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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Your argument is invalid. 

Why? 

Money. 

Why would CGC EVER notate that a book was pressed by CCS?  That would be incredibly foolish.  So they can tell that CCS pressed a book.  Guess what I am going to do.  NEVER SEND MY BOOKS TO CCS. (It's more fun if you reread the capitalized words in the voice of Norm MacDonald)   So I will send my books to Joey or RMA... then I will ask them to send the books back to me and then I will submit it to CGC where they will have to flip the proverbial coin to try and figure out if the book was pressed. 

The end result... everyone does this instead of sending their books to CCS.  CCS fails as an extension of CGC.  CGC no likey. 

exactly as I said CGC would be shooting themselves in the foot.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Exactly.  While most collectors wouldn't care if a comic were denoted as having been pressed, others would, and so books noted that way would be less desirable in the marketplace overall.  So collectors are left to guess. If that doesn't tell you the problem with undisclosed pressing for collectors who prefer their comics unpressed, nothing will.

There are three groups... 

There are those that do not care if a book was pressed.

There are those that want to know and care only because they want a book in its purist form.

There are those that want to know because if it has not been pressed they will be sure to have it pressed to upgrade it for themselves. 

I personally have no problem with a book being pressed and do not consider it restoration. 

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Buzzetta said:

There are three groups... 

There are those that do not care if a book was pressed.

There are those that want to know and care only because they want a book in its purist form.

There are those that want to know because if it has not been pressed they will be sure to have it pressed to upgrade it for themselves. 

I personally have no problem with a book being pressed and do not consider it restoration. 

Agreed.  And good luck if you're a collector of high grade Silver Age comics if you're in the second category.

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

Someone could make a bazillion dollars if they figured out a way to unpress books hm

I've been denting and bending my books like crazy!

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

Is it time to start taking pernts yet?

In France we call em 'pwants'

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FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Exactly.  While most collectors wouldn't care if a comic were denoted as having been pressed, others would, and so books noted that way would be less desirable in the marketplace overall.  So collectors are left to guess. If that doesn't tell you the problem with undisclosed pressing for collectors who prefer their comics unpressed, nothing will.

And it's not just an issue with CGC.  You see the following disclaimer in sales threads on the boards quite a lot: "consider all books as having been pressed".  This statement is made by sellers who know with certainty whether they had a comic pressed.  If they're all pressed, or one or two weren't for various reasons, why not disclose the fact and say so, removing any ambiguity?  Can't remember when a book is being offered for sale whether you had it pressed or not before slabbing?  Keep a record.

 

But I have no idea if the books I have bought slabbed were pressed.

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted
Just now, FlyingDonut said:

But I have no idea if the books I have bought slabbed were pressed.

The network of nondisclosure.  Same for me, except for the occasional comic that has the tell-tale stigmata of pressing left behind.

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kimik

kimik

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, namisgr said:
8 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

But I have no idea if the books I have bought slabbed were pressed.

The network of nondisclosure.  Same for me, except for the occasional comic that has the tell-tale stigmata of pressing left behind.

I just assume that everything I buy has been pressed at least once and do not worry about it. As long as I can get a properly centred copy with W pages in the grade I am looking for then I am happy.

Edited by kimik
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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, kimik said:

I just assume that everything I buy has been pressed at least once and do not worry about it. As long as I can get a properly centred copy with W pages in the grade I am looking for I do not worry about it.

And I don't buy Silver Age comics in high grade anymore, and so don't worry about it either.

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Rip

Rip

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, namisgr said:

And I don't buy Silver Age comics in high grade anymore, and so don't worry about it either.

It's not limited to just high grade books. It's books of any age/grade that can be improved for a profit risk worth taking.

And don't forget reattached centerfolds/covers, and the more questionable swapped cleaned/staples.

 

Edited by Rip
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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, NP_Gresham said:
On 7/19/2019 at 7:49 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Plus the Heritage shill bidding:

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/2009/09/lifting_the_veil_at_heritage_a.html

 

Say it isn't so:ohnoez:

So I guess the lawsuit fizzled out?

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