Disney+'s MS. MARVEL Kamela Khan series (TBD) 2 2

[ashsaytr]

I enjoyed this show... was not impressed with how they did her powers... but hopefully that will change up some

[KingOfRulers]

SPOILERS:

I thought episode 1 was okay. If it weren't a Marvel universe show, I wouldn't continue watching beyond episode 2, if episode 2 ends up being of similar quality to episode 1. I'd say the same for Moon Knight, although I gave up on that after episode 4 (the first Marvel show or movie I gave up on). There were certainly things I liked about the show. The lead being a fangirl was nice. The "Avengercon" was a cool concept. And I did like the teenager vs. conservative parent conflict.

Hopefully Ms. Marvel becomes more compelling for me in future episodes. Everyone applauds the show for having an ethnically diverse, female lead. Those things don't matter to me. The lead being Islamic and having lady parts down there does not equate to a compelling story for me.

I hope these Disney+ shows don't get pumped out so fast as to lose focus and quality. I think a lot of comic collectors at some point in their collecting end up as comic buyers simply because they are "collectors" and must collect. Having the ongoing, unbroken run of whatever the title is holds great weight even if the quality of the product has declined and the consumer's genuine interest in the product has waned as a result. I fear that happening to me with Marvel movies and shows. I go back to my opening sentence: "I thought episode 1 was okay. If it weren't a Marvel universe show, I wouldn't continue watching beyond episode 2, if episode 2 ends up being of similar quality to episode 1." My desire to be up-to-date and caught up with what's going on in the MCU is a lot of what compels me to watch some of the shows and movies that I otherwise wouldn't watch beyond a couple of episodes. I've got that collector mentality of wanting to maintain the unbroken depth of knowledge of the MCU, even though some of this stuff I don't particularly have genuine interest in.

I hope episode 2 of Ms. Marvel is able to draw me in. I didn't dislike episode 1...it just didn't enthrall me. There's just so much quality content to watch nowadays, that generally speaking, I need really enjoy the content in order to keep watching. Being a lifelong Marvel Zombie, they've got special privileges where I'll watch even mediocre content...for a time.

Edited June 11, 2022 by KingOfRulers

[drotto]

On 6/11/2022 at 11:05 AM, Bosco685 said:

It really is ignorant not to want to allow other races and genders into your hobby. All because THEIR version of a given comic book universe is decades old, so heavily Caucasian-based.

The hobby will never grow with legacy gatekeepers attempting to block the way.

While I agree with your sentiment, gatekeeping is not what is killing this hobby.  I have teenagers both of which would be prime new readers in the past.  They have no interest.  It is all about manga, and despite being surrounded by 40 years of great stories (including a lot of modern) that they are welcome to read, they have zero interest.  You just have to look at the monthly graphic novel sales and it is dominated by manga, with maybe one or two US comics sneaking in. Also fans of the MCU have not translated into fans that buy floppies.  Marvel has been trying to convert viewers to readers for years, and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Not sure I understand why, but the data is almost indisputable.   X-Men #1 in 1991 sold 1 million copies.  A well selling book today is lucky to do 100,000. Get beyond the top 10 and the numbers become truly dismal.  Ms. Marvel's current comic is Ms. Marvel Beyond Limits issue 4 (from Comichron) which has an estimated 5335 issues sold, with 14,819 estimated shipped to retailers. Just pointing this out, no judgement intended. 

 

This also proves to me why the MCU has little issue (and fans have really not much right to complain) switching powers, and playing lose with cannon.  From the floppy buyer standpoint, there is not a very wide base of support. Why let maybe 10,000 regular readers dictate the direction of a series with the potential for millions of viewers.

Edited June 11, 2022 by drotto

[fantastic_four]

Is there any clue from the comics about where that bracelet came from?  It looked like it was in a package with a return address in Pakistan who had the last name Khan, implying it's one of her relatives.

[drotto]

On 6/11/2022 at 5:36 PM, fantastic_four said:

Is there any clue from the comics about where that bracelet came from?  It looked like it was in a package with a return address in Pakistan who had the last name Khan, implying it's one of her relatives.

No, she gets her power from the Terrigen mist (she is an Inhuman) in the comics.  The bracelet is completely for the show only and is a retcon on her origin in the comic.  Also in the comics her powers are almost identical to Mr. Fantastic (stretching and "embiggening"), in the show they are much more similar to Green Lantern. 

[AJLewandoski]

On 6/11/2022 at 5:36 PM, fantastic_four said:

Is there any clue from the comics about where that bracelet came from?  It looked like it was in a package with a return address in Pakistan who had the last name Khan, implying it's one of her relatives.

I'm pretty sure they said it was from her grandma. Her mom was saying how her grandma lived in fantasies like Kamala, so I'm expecting a legacy of powers to unfold, and I think we'll see how that works out in later episodes. 

[TupennyConan]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/06/11/ms-marvel-is-now-the-highest-scoring-mcu-series-or-movie-ever/

[fantastic_four]

On 6/12/2022 at 3:07 PM, TupennyConan said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/06/11/ms-marvel-is-now-the-highest-scoring-mcu-series-or-movie-ever/

I've been meaning to address this in the forum for years--movie critics on Rotten Tomatoes judge films MUCH more harshly than their television critics do.  I don't fully understand why the scoring is so vastly different, but movie and television scores on there are just not comparable at ALL.

Anyone know why critics cut television shows so much more slack?  Certainly the history of television versus film is that TV is the slums and cinema is the real art, so I assume whatever we're seeing is at least a partial reflection of that divide in perceived legitimacy of the two media.  But I really don't fully get it at all...if I were a critic I'd make every effort to judge both using very similar criteria.

Edited June 13, 2022 by fantastic_four

[Bosco685]

On 6/12/2022 at 8:36 PM, fantastic_four said:

I've been meaning to address this in the forum for years--movie critics on Rotten Tomatoes judge films MUCH more harshly than their television critics do.  I don't fully understand why the scoring is so vastly different, but movie and television scores on there are just not comparable at ALL.

Anyone know why critics cut television shows so much more slack?  Certainly the history of television versus film is that TV is the slums and cinema is the real art, so I assume whatever we're seeing is at least a partial reflection of that divide in perceived legitimacy of the two media.  But I really don't fully get it at all...if I were a critic I'd make every effort to judge both using very similar criteria.

It really is an interesting observation, as I've noticed this as well. Like the big screen releases get treated as something warranting extra scrutiny, no matter the size of the film.

I have not been able to figure out why.

[fantastic_four]

Using the list from that article Tup linked:

1. Ms. Marvel – 97%
2. Black Panther – 96%
3. Avengers Endgame – 94%
4. Iron Man – 94%
5. What If…? – 94%
6. Thor Ragnarok – 93%
7. Spider-Man: No Way Home – 93%
8. Spider-Man: Homecoming – 92%
9. Loki – 92%
10. Guardians of the Galaxy – 92%
11. Hawkeye – 92%
12. The Avengers – 92%
13. WandaVision – 91%
14. Shang-Chi – 91%
15. Spider-Man: Far From Home - 90%

I'd have to give it though to be sure but I doubt ANY of those Disney Plus shows should be anywhere on that list.  What If is better than any Spider-Man film?    Loki and Hawkeye better than the Avengers?  

[fantastic_four]

On 6/12/2022 at 8:36 PM, fantastic_four said:

Certainly the history of television versus film is that TV is the slums and cinema is the real art, so I assume whatever we're seeing is at least a partial reflection of that divide in perceived legitimacy of the two media. 

This is the reason I've always assumed critics cut TV shows more slack--they just accept that standards are lower for television and they adjust their criticism accordingly.  It just seems like lazy reviewing, and because of that I've NEVER had any respect at all for television criticism.  There could easily be plenty of good TV critics out there, but I haven't found them yet--and I know for sure Rotten Tomatoes hasn't found them yet.  

This thread wasn't the best place to start this conversation given that it's certainly possible Ms. Marvel is the best Disney Plus show so far.  I've barely put any thought into ranking them since they're ALL worse than the movies have been.

Edited June 13, 2022 by fantastic_four

[drotto]

On 6/13/2022 at 7:30 AM, fantastic_four said:

This is the reason I've always assumed critics cut TV shows more slack--they just accept that standards are lower for television and they adjust their criticism accordingly.  It just seems like lazy reviewing, and because of that I've NEVER had any respect at all for television criticism.  There could easily be plenty of good TV critics out there, but I haven't found them yet--and I know for sure Rotten Tomatoes hasn't found them yet.  

This thread wasn't the best place to start this conversation given that it's certainly possible Ms. Marvel is the best Disney Plus show so far.  I've barely put any thought into ranking them since they're ALL worse than the movies have been.

A lot of shows are also rated on 2 or 3 episodes given to them to review as press screeners.  Often, they are not rating the entire season. So if the first few episodes are great, it gets a good rating.  If the remainder of the season is a mess, oh well they already did their review.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 6/12/2022 at 8:36 PM, fantastic_four said:

Anyone know why critics cut television shows so much more slack?

Consideration for lower budgets? Not having to pay an admission fee (despite having to pay for cable or streaming)?

I agree that they need to be judged differently, but the episodic formula is the only thing that I personally take into account.

[TupennyConan]

Comics have struggled forever to break free of their aging male readership. The MCU hasn't suffered this disability.

[Bosco685]

Watched Episode 1. It was a cute teenage take on a superhero finding her way during an awkward time in her life to determine who she is. So the MCU version of Stargirl. Just without the engaging mystery that show dove into out of the gate. But it does take a moment to celebrate fandom and all things MCU which was exactly that - cute.

This appears to be set up for a much younger fanbase. And that is okay. It may not be for me. But I've been glued to the TV surprisingly over two seasons of a very intense and engaging Stargirl series. Let's see where this goes.

[jsilverjanet]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:24 AM, Bosco685 said:

very intense and engaging Stargirl series.

I guess i need to check it out

[Bosco685]

On 6/14/2022 at 12:24 PM, jsilverjanet said:

I guess i need to check it out

Season Two was a big risk. As the character Eclipso uses hate themes like racism to gain power from their emotions. That could have backfired majorly for this show.

[rexinnih]

On 6/11/2022 at 2:59 PM, drotto said:

No, she gets her power from the Terrigen mist (she is an Inhuman) in the comics.  The bracelet is completely for the show only and is a retcon on her origin in the comic.  Also in the comics her powers are almost identical to Mr. Fantastic (stretching and "embiggening"), in the show they are much more similar to Green Lantern. 

Thanks. Wasn't up to date on the character in comics and just searched for this after I saw the first episode. Guess using a magic bracelet is as plausible as getting bitten by a radioactive spider to get powers or 10 Rings but the Terrigen mist would have connected to the Shield TV series in my opinion. Anywhoo, will keep watching as I've done with the other series. 

[Boozad]

Enjoyed it way more than Moon Knight, I'll definitely keep watching.

[Ken Aldred]

On 6/11/2022 at 3:16 PM, TupennyConan said:

It's refreshing for Hollywood to write a pious character as wise & well-adjusted, as we see with the brother. That it's an Islamic family rather than say, Jewish or Catholic, is even more uncommon. I usually don't judge this stuff according to its social dimension but these features standout as distinct positives for me.  

 

On 6/11/2022 at 4:05 PM, Bosco685 said:

It really is ignorant not to want to allow other races and genders into your hobby. All because THEIR version of a given comic book universe is decades old, so heavily Caucasian-based.

The hobby will never grow with legacy gatekeepers attempting to block the way.

I've always liked the comic.  The town I live in, like many places in the UK, has a large Muslim community, and I've always found the social / family aspects of the stories interesting, even educational, as the books have been written by Muslim creators, and who, one would assume, infused a degree of accuracy and reality there.  An engaging, heroic character, regardless of background.