Blue vs Yellow- valuation 1 1

[jjonahjameson11]

11 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

That makes sense.  Books like ASM298 are known for McFarlane so having his name on the book would make sense to command a premium.

I would imagine that ASM 39 would follow suit as well with a Lee/Romita signature.  I know I paid a premium for mine in having both signatures on one of my copies. 

Good call. 

I think you’re right on the ASM 39 sig series.  I had an 8.0 and a 9.2 , both signed by Lee and Romita, but it was so long ago that I don’t recall how significant the premium was or even if it was worth mentioning (this was back when Stan was charged $50 per sig)

[jjonahjameson11]

3 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

Frazetta's signature sure seems to add value. 

Well, yeah it should @ $250 per sig! And he didn’t sign a lot of books/mags

[Ryan.]

4 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

9 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

Frazetta's signature sure seems to add value. 

Well, yeah it should @ $250 per sig! And he didn’t sign a lot of books/mags

Point being that the OP's question is not answerable in a vacuum.

Some sigs definitely add value; some definitely do not.

It depends on the signature, the comic, the grade, etc.

[comix4fun]

36 minutes ago, lighthouse said:

Signature on a comic is like a pool in a backyard. 

For a small number of buyers, it increases the value. But it drastically reduces the number of potential buyers. 

Folks try to sell my shop yellow label books all the time. And with very limited exceptions I have zero interest in buying them. Why tie up money in a book that I have to show to 10x as many buyers before it sells? And don’t get me started on the “here’s a New Mutants 98 with Stan Lee’s signature” crowd. It’s embarassing for me to even put that nonsense on my wall, I’d rather sell furry porn. 

Sketch-and-sign books are awesome. Books you got signed in person as a memento of meeting a creator you love are awesome. Getting a signed copy of a book that reminds you of your childhood is awesome... Joe Celebrity sat down and signed exactly 3,000 copies of this book and you nabbed one for the low low price of an Earl Scheib paint job? Not awesome. Stan “I’ll sign anything you put in front of me as long as you pay me” Lee signature on books he had nothing to do with? Sigh.

For sure not all yellows are worth keeping around, but Romita, Lee, Colan, Frazetta, and lots of other Gold/Silver/Bronze greats on the books they are famous for are easy money if you buy them right. And the more modern keys with the right sigs have a far more expanded buying spectrum than 1 in 10. The aforementioned NM98 with Liefeld carries a MASSIVE premium. Bolland on a Killing Joke. Alan Moore on almost anything he did for DC and a few other publishers. Just for example. 

Say something like this. This wouldn't be embarrassing to put on the wall. Even low grade and partially purple, I think this might attract a few buyers.

 

 

[Hollywood1892]

47 minutes ago, lighthouse said:

Signature on a comic is like a pool in a backyard. 

For a small number of buyers, it increases the value. But it drastically reduces the number of potential buyers. 

Folks try to sell my shop yellow label books all the time. And with very limited exceptions I have zero interest in buying them. Why tie up money in a book that I have to show to 10x as many buyers before it sells? And don’t get me started on the “here’s a New Mutants 98 with Stan Lee’s signature” crowd. It’s embarassing for me to even put that nonsense on my wall, I’d rather sell furry porn. 

Sketch-and-sign books are awesome. Books you got signed in person as a memento of meeting a creator you love are awesome. Getting a signed copy of a book that reminds you of your childhood is awesome... Joe Celebrity sat down and signed exactly 3,000 copies of this book and you nabbed one for the low low price of an Earl Scheib paint job? Not awesome. Stan “I’ll sign anything you put in front of me as long as you pay me” Lee signature on books he had nothing to do with? Sigh.

Good point

[lighthouse]

I think signatures today are where restoration was in the 1970s. For some it’s a way to turn a less desirable book into a nice payday. For others it’s a third rail they want no part of.

There’s no denying that a low grade copy can be improved with a signature or restoration. I’ve got a low grade X-Men 2 that Stan Lee signed on the splash page in 1987 and there’s no doubt it’s more desirable than another random low grade copy of that book. But I cringe every time I am checking the census and see there are only 10 known copies of a book in 9.6 and 2 of them have yellow labels. 

[comicginger1789]

Signatures on the right books always seem to add value. But because you are bumping value, you are eliminating potential buyers more so than you are adding potential buyers I feel. I mean, how many times do people go "man, that 9.6 ASM 300 looks great...but I wish it had a signature on it. I think I will pass" ??

Say you have a CGC 9.6 book. I want that book and at $100, I can afford it. But supposed you get that book signed by a noteworthy contributor to the book and get the yellow label, still at a 9.6. Well you paid $50-100 for the signature so you now list the same book for sale in the $250-300 range. Outta range for me. Plus if I am someone who just wants the book or am completing a run or whatever, I am likely to go with the affordable 9.8 book.

Now, some signatures people really want...in some cases more than the book but rarely. Classic creators no longer with us for example.

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, lighthouse said:

I think signatures today are where restoration was in the 1970s. For some it’s a way to turn a less desirable book into a nice payday. For others it’s a third rail they want no part of.

There’s no denying that a low grade copy can be improved with a signature or restoration. I’ve got a low grade X-Men 2 that Stan Lee signed on the splash page in 1987 and there’s no doubt it’s more desirable than another random low grade copy of that book. But I cringe every time I am checking the census and see there are only 10 known copies of a book in 9.6 and 2 of them have yellow labels. 

There's a huge gap between the market values and going rates for blue vs. Stan Lee yellow labels on quite a few books. A substantial difference. Take a look at AS 300 on the GP site, just to name one. A lot of Bronze and Copper age key books are double and up for Stan Lee yellow label signed sig series CGC books.

[kav]

10 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

There's a huge gap between the market values and going rates for blue vs. Stan Lee yellow labels on quite a few books. A substantial difference. Take a look at AS 300 on the GP site, just to name one. A lot of Bronze and Copper age key books are double and up for Stan Lee yellow label signed sig series CGC books.

How's SA books lookin?

[s-man]

16 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Does a signature on a book increase the book's FMV or decrease it?

Simply stated that's all up to the buyer.  If the buyer sees the signature as a good thing then it increases the value and they buy it for the marked up price, if they do not and the book isn't sold because of the sig, then it decreases the value.  Or is that too simple?

[143ksk]

7 hours ago, comix4fun said:

For sure not all yellows are worth keeping around, but Romita, Lee, Colan, Frazetta, and lots of other Gold/Silver/Bronze greats on the books they are famous for are easy money if you buy them right. And the more modern keys with the right sigs have a far more expanded buying spectrum than 1 in 10. The aforementioned NM98 with Liefeld carries a MASSIVE premium. Bolland on a Killing Joke. Alan Moore on almost anything he did for DC and a few other publishers. Just for example. 

Say something like this. This wouldn't be embarrassing to put on the wall. Even low grade and partially purple, I think this might attract a few buyers.

 

 

[MatterEaterLad]

Another weird factor that sometimes motivates buyers are registry sets. 

I had a Miller set. A few 9.9s and the rest 9.8s. I was #2 and could only overtake the #1 spot with SS books, which have a slightly higher point value. It wasn't that big of a deal, but sometimes in collecting there's an objective, so I had a few signed by Klaus Janson and that was enough to take the top spot. But only for a brief moment. For me it was just a fun thing to do and worth the $$.

I recently put those signed books up for sale and with the Frank Miller signing coming up, they've been selling quite well, often well beyond current GPA.

 

 

[revat]

Honestly too many variables for standard universal blanket statements 

[Qalyar]

 

4 hours ago, lighthouse said:

I think signatures today are where restoration was in the 1970s. For some it’s a way to turn a less desirable book into a nice payday. For others it’s a third rail they want no part of.

There’s no denying that a low grade copy can be improved with a signature or restoration. I’ve got a low grade X-Men 2 that Stan Lee signed on the splash page in 1987 and there’s no doubt it’s more desirable than another random low grade copy of that book. But I cringe every time I am checking the census and see there are only 10 known copies of a book in 9.6 and 2 of them have yellow labels. 

For a lot of people, yellow label is better, and worth more. But not for everyone. I tend to think that this signature craze is a lot like restoration was in the 1970s. It takes a book, and (often, and stereotypically) makes it worth more, so why wouldn't you? But it didn't take all that long in the scheme of things to go from "restoration makes your comics better!" to "restoration makes you the sad owner of a PLOD book". Personally, I'd be happy to never own a yellow label book, just as I don't collect purple ones.

I view organized, systematic comic collecting as a very "young" hobby. As I've pointed out a lot on these boards, we don't even have a truly comprehensive catalog of print variants for the people who would choose to collect that way (Overstreet ain't it). Other, similar hobbies learned a lot of these lessons. Once upon a time, people did the same sort of restoration on stamps, and cleaned or polished coins. Stamps with restoration are essentially worthless in all but the edgiest of edge cases, and cleaned coins are considered damaged (and get the equivalent of green grades, at best). Tiny printing differences in postage stamps -- the paper used, the gauge of the perforations, sometimes even the phospor tagging visible under black light -- can make hundreds or even thousands of dollars of difference. Slowly, sometimes too slowly, we're learning. There are several GA keys that are now all but impossible to find in unrestored condition, because everyone had tears sealed and pages cleaned, even when the books really didn't need any help. And, yes, most of the hoopla over newsstand variants right now is flipper cash-grabbing, but some of those books are real rarities hiding in plain sight.

Thirty years from now, are we going to look back and wonder why people "back then" got so many comics signed by... well, anyone vaguely related to the book? Cover artist, interior artist, Stan Lee, writer, actors who played the characters in an adaptation, Stan Lee...? Every time someone makes a 9.8 SS book, that's one less 9.8 Universal that will ever exist. For a lot of books, that won't really matter. There will still more 9.8s out there than collectors who are likely to care. But there are limited books, low-print run books, books famous for poor quality production runs, where that might not be the case. There are over twice as many 9.0+ SS copies of Cerebus 1 as 9.0+ blue labels (and that assumes that none of the blues were cracked to hand back to Dave Sim for signing); I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

No matter what happens to collecting trends, a 9.8 Universal will always be a high quality collectible, even if something bad happens to CGC or to the slabbing industry as a whole (after all, you can always crack a slab). You can't have a cover unsigned.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Qalyar
missed a word!

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, kav said:

How's SA books lookin?

Not so much a huge disparity in value, but in some cases, a sizable one! Now I'm referring to Stan Lee yellow labels, which command a premium over most others, with rare exception, like Star Wars comics, with multiple cast signatures on them, especially the departed.

[kav]

6 minutes ago, Qalyar said:

 

For a lot of people, yellow label is better, and worth more. But not for everyone. I tend to think that this signature craze is a lot like restoration was in the 1970s. It takes a book, and (often, and stereotypically) makes it worth more, so why wouldn't you? But it didn't take all that long in the scheme of things to go from "restoration makes your comics better!" to "restoration makes you the sad owner of a PLOD book". Personally, I'd be happy to never own a yellow label book, just as I don't collect purple ones.

I view organized, systematic comic collecting as a very "young" hobby. As I've pointed out a lot on these boards, we don't even have a truly comprehensive catalog of print variants for the people who would choose to collect that way (Overstreet ain't it). Other, similar hobbies learned a lot of these lessons. Once upon a time, people did the same sort of restoration on stamps, and cleaned or polished coins. Stamps with restoration are essentially worthless in all but the edgiest of edge cases, and cleaned coins are considered damaged (and get the equivalent of green grades, at best). Tiny printing differences in postage stamps -- the paper used, the gauge of the perforations, sometimes even the phospor tagging visible under black light, can make hundreds or even thousands of dollars of difference. Slowly, sometimes too slowly, we're learning. There are several GA keys that are now all but impossible to find in unrestored condition, because everyone had tears sealed and pages cleaned, even when the books really didn't any help. And, yes, most of the hoopla over newsstand variants right now is flipper cash-grabbing, but some of those books are real rarities hiding in plain sight.

Thirty years from now, are we going to look back and wonder why people "back then" got so many comics signed by... well, anyone vaguely related to the book? Cover artist, interior artist, Stan Lee, writer, actors who played the characters in an adaptation, Stan Lee...? Every time someone makes a 9.8 SS book, that's one less 9.8 Universal that will ever exist. For a lot of books, that won't really matter. There will still more 9.8s out there than collectors who are likely to care. But there are limited books, low-print run books, books famous for poor quality production runs, where that might not be the case. There are over twice as many 9.0+ SS copies of Cerebus 1 as 9.0+ blue labels (and that assumes that none of the blues were cracked to hand back to Dave Sim for signing); I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

No matter what happens to collecting trends, a 9.8 Universal will always be a high quality collectible, even if something bad happens to CGC or to the slabbing industry as a whole (after all, you can always crack a slab). You can't have a cover unsigned.

I also am predicting future scorn from collectors at books that were written on.  Pristine will command the highest premium.

[Qalyar]

Honestly, right now, I think one of the biggest appeals to yellow-label books (either from CGC or its primary competitor) is that they are witnessed signatures that can be realistically guaranteed to be authentic. Signature collecting has been a thing for decades, but so has signature forgery. And with current estimates that 60% (or more!) of the collectible signatures currently on the market are outright frauds, well... For example, Stan Lee signatures outside of a witnessed book are rapidly approaching worthless because there is so much bad paper that it drives out the good. And I don't see any realistic way to change that; PSA is a trainwreck that shows signature authentication is only slightly less dubious than handwriting analysis.

So, to some extent, some SS books will always be valuable. But I don't think their lofty heights are forever, and I certainly don't think they're going to be forever viewed as "superior" to high grade Universal copies.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Qalyar

[god503]

Yellow labels command more of premium than blue labels of the same issue.  THAT IS JUST A STRAIGHT FACT!  Doesn't matter if you dont like sigs.  fact is fact

Edited April 29, 2020 by god503

[god503]

How many of these do you think exist????  verses blue label..   Value to a collector is based on rarerity.

[god503]

And no I dont have this book, but i do want it.  Im a huge Todd father spidey fan.  But the person wants too much for my blood.  I made an offer but he aint budging..