Feelings on Unpublished Pages? 3 3

[BuraddoRun]

How do you feel about unpublished art? I don't mean sketches, but actual fully drawn and sometimes fully inked interiors or even covers that end up not making it into a comic. Personally, I think they're pretty cool and would love to know the stories behind those I've come across. I'm a new collector and don't currently have any unpublished pages, but I've seen some online. Do you have any? Do you know the story behind yours, whether it was redone, simply cut, completed for a book that never ended up getting published, given to a different artist, etc.? And do you enjoy collecting that kind of thing or only the stuff that went into a published work?

[grapeape]

I had a few unpublished pages but sold them off as I focused more on published pages I wanted.

I think they are cool. For whatever reason they weren’t used, it’s still cool to see the process.

Unpublished pages are worth far less $$ wise then published. I mention that only because you said you were new to collecting OA. However art for art sake is always something you should keep in mind. I’ve seen beautiful covers that were never used by the publishers. There is a thread somewhere I believe that points out some of these.

This is a thoughtful post early on in your CGC “career.”

Welcome Buraddo Run.

Grape Ape  🍇 + 🦍 

 

[SquareChaos]

I have one unpublished cover. It's to a mini that never happened. I generally don't collect such, but I really enjoyed the previous entries to the series, and I like the artist and image, so I bought it and I don't regret it. In fact, I passed on one of his other published covers to pick it up - something I imagine I won't do again. It also likely isn't something many others would care about so it's stuck with me and that's fine because I like to look at it.

 

It all comes down to individual instances. I do think the chance of such purchases really nose dives as you climb up the y-axis on acquisition cost so it is likely heavily dependent on how big of a fish you are.

[Brian Peck]

42 minutes ago, grapeape said:

I had a few unpublished pages but sold them off as I focused more on published pages I wanted.

I think they are cool. For whatever reason they weren’t used, it’s still cool to see the process.

Unpublished pages are worth far less $$ wise then published. I mention that only because you said you were new to collecting OA. However art for art sake is always something you should keep in mind. I’ve seen beautiful covers that were never used by the publishers. There is a thread somewhere I believe that points out some of these.

This is a thoughtful post early on in your CGC “career.”

Welcome Buraddo Run.

Grape Ape  🍇 + 🦍 

 

That isn't always true, that unpublished pages are worth less than published.

Something like the unpublished original pages from Uncanny X-Men #137 before Jean Grey is killed off drawn by the same artist team as the published is probably worth more. Though pages from the issue published or unpublished are very expensive.

I good example of unpublished pages worth alot more than the published is Fantastic Four #286, Return of Jean Grey. John Byrne originally wrote and penciled the issue with Terry Austin inks which included a flashback of what happened in X-Men #100, Jim Shooter decided he wanted to change the flashback sequence and brought in Chris Claremont to rewrite three pages and Jackson Guice to redraw it. John Byrne didn't like Jim's messing with the issue so he refused to draw the rewritten sequence and had his name taken off the issue (credit for writing and pencils is "You Know Who").

Guice decided to ape John and Terry's style to keep consistent and he did such a good job many readers never knew the flashback is by a different artist. Flashback has four pages (one page Guice didn't redraw) I used to own three pages by Byrne from the flashback and I still own the three Guice did. Ended up selling two of the Byrne pages. The Byrne page went for 10x the corresponding Guice page went for. 

Here is the Byrne unpublished page I still own.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Brian Peck

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

That isn't always true, that unpublished pages are worth less than published.

Something like the unpublished original pages from Uncanny X-Men #137 before Jean Grey is killed off drawn by the same artist team as the published is probably worth more. Though pages from the issue published or unpublished are very expensive.

I good example of unpublished pages worth alot more than the published is Fantastic Four #286, Return of Jean Grey. John Byrne originally wrote and penciled the issue with Terry Austin inks which included a flashback of what happened in X-Men #100, Jim Shooter decided he wanted to change the flashback sequence and brought in Chris Claremont to rewrite three pages and Jackson Guice to redraw it. John Byrne didn't like Jim's messing with the issue so he refused to draw the rewritten sequence and had his name taken off the issue (credit for writing and pencils is "You Know Who").

Guice decided to ape John and Terry's style to keep consistent and he did such a good job many readers never knew the flashback is by a different artist. Flashback has four pages (one page Guice didn't redraw) I used to own three pages by Byrne from the flashback and I still own the three Guice did. Ended up selling two of the Byrne pages. The Byrne page went for 10x the corresponding Guice page went for. 

Here is the Byrne unpublished page I still own.

 

 

 

That’s a stunning page. You make a great point. I maybe oversimplified or generalized published vs. unpublished. My intent was to get BuraddoRun as a new collector to realize that in general a published page would command more. 

Now the examples you site show how complex comic art collecting can be. And BuraddoRun I can say Brian is one of the collectors I respect the most on the boards. Just look at that unpublished Byrne page. I would treasure a work of art like that. Art for art sake♥️

So do your homework before you lay down your money for art. There’s lots to learn. Buy what you love. Learn to appreciate the art and the artists who pencil and finish (ink) the art. 

🍇 + 🦍 

[thethedew]

2 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

I have one unpublished cover. It's to a mini that never happened.

I have one of those, too:

GRIMJACK: OUTLAW IN HELL miniseries.  Never got close to print, but some of the covers got made:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1647719

[malvin]

 I probably have more, but 2 come to mind:

JR JR Thor vs. Thanos Cover - I was advised by a fellow collector to ask the Editor, he was half guessing but thinks after this was inked, JR JR didn't like it and re-drew it, which became the published cover.

Khoi Pham Avengers (Chaos War) Full splash - I don't know why this was unused.  Seem to have enough similarities to the published cover to make me wonder if they used this and photoshopped the rest.

Most collectors know, I would caution that you make sure you get un-used pieces from the period. Not a new sketch that someone slapped on some trade dress to call it "first cover" or worse, a piece by a totally different artist that you call an unused version.

Malvin

 

[Brian Peck]

31 minutes ago, grapeape said:

That’s a stunning page. You make a great point. I maybe oversimplified or generalized published vs. unpublished. My intent was to get BuraddoRun as a new collector to realize that in general a published page would command more. 

Now the examples you site show how complex comic art collecting can be. And BuraddoRun I can say Brian is one of the collectors I respect the most on the boards. Just look at that unpublished Byrne page. I would treasure a work of art like that. Art for art sake♥️

So do your homework before you lay down your money for art. There’s lots to learn. Buy what you love. Learn to appreciate the art and the artists who pencil and finish (ink) the art. 

🍇 + 🦍 

Also be care to distinguish between unpublished and prelim pages. A good example is John Buscema's Conan The Rogue. He penciled and inked the whole thing but was known to redrew pages some finished and some unfinished. Also be careful of newer art that can have both pencils and blueline/light boxed inks. They are both considered published as they are part of the process for the page. Just the inks were what was reproduced. The pencils (usually done on the same piece of bristol in older comics) are on seprate sheet but not considered unpublished in the term you are using, ie rejected for some reason.

Most unpublished comic book art  come in the form of covers. Story had been written and drawn but editor changes the cover at the last minute or the artist is late with the cover. But I have seen splashes and panel pages (my example above). Most times when a page is changed usually the artist or editor will change it by altering the physical page (older art) whiteout, stats (copy of artwork) repositions or panels cut out. Newer comic art, changes are done digitally in pre-press. Be careful new art if changed ditally will be different than the physical comic but doesn't mean the artwork is unpublished. 

[Brian Peck]

5 minutes ago, malvin said:

 

Most collectors know, I would caution that you make sure you get un-used pieces from the period. Not a new sketch that someone slapped on some trade dress to call it "first cover" or worse, a piece by a totally different artist that you call an unused version.

Malvin

 

Now who could that be?  

 

[Terry E. Gibbs]

This is the cover from Flash 46 Rebirth. Vendetti was drawing out the Reverse Flash story line and over ran it by at least two issues. This is part of the story that followed, but the cover was never used as Booth was not on the book and the cover had been used in solicitations for the 46, see the colour image. If the cover is pertinent to the story or the story arc I have no problem with unpublished, especially if it was also used in solicitations. I would want to understand why it was not used before buying. After that it is content context of story arc, and artist. Booth really did a good Flash run especially his version of Reverse Flash. This is the only art he ever did for any of the other Rogues (and don't mention the Top I am trying to forget)

[Rick2you2]

I have 5, with 2 interior pages from the same run. One thing I like to do is compare different styles by different artists of the same subject matter to see how they handle it. So for me, an unpublished page is often a treat because an unexpected artist shows up drawing a Phantom Stranger image. On balance, they cost less, and are worth less, then a published page, but as noted above there are exceptions.

 I have 3 different pages from two cancelled series where DC was trying to unify all the different magic types. One attempt was to unify all the different magic types into a single magic theory (the artist, Chris Schenk, had only done the pencils, so I commissioned him to ink it privately, very pleased). The other was an early attempt at something like a Justice League Dark that went nowhere (with insane looking characters, but pretty good art, by Duke Mighten). I also have a tryout page for a Constantine book by Jason Shawn Alexander, and a very good pencil cover by Scott Clark to Phantom Stranger No. 3 (4th Series).

[PhilipB2k17]

8 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

That isn't always true, that unpublished pages are worth less than published.

Something like the unpublished original pages from Uncanny X-Men #137 before Jean Grey is killed off drawn by the same artist team as the published is probably worth more. Though pages from the issue published or unpublished are very expensive.

I good example of unpublished pages worth alot more than the published is Fantastic Four #286, Return of Jean Grey. John Byrne originally wrote and penciled the issue with Terry Austin inks which included a flashback of what happened in X-Men #100, Jim Shooter decided he wanted to change the flashback sequence and brought in Chris Claremont to rewrite three pages and Jackson Guice to redraw it. John Byrne didn't like Jim's messing with the issue so he refused to draw the rewritten sequence and had his name taken off the issue (credit for writing and pencils is "You Know Who").

Guice decided to ape John and Terry's style to keep consistent and he did such a good job many readers never knew the flashback is by a different artist. Flashback has four pages (one page Guice didn't redraw) I used to own three pages by Byrne from the flashback and I still own the three Guice did. Ended up selling two of the Byrne pages. The Byrne page went for 10x the corresponding Guice page went for. 

Here is the Byrne unpublished page I still own.

 

 

 

Speaking of Byrne, his recent “fan” X-Men story pages - all pencils - have been selling at pretty high prices. None of it’s been published. 

[vodou]

9 hours ago, grapeape said:

Unpublished pages are worth far less $$ wise then published.

While likely to be accused of drawing a rather picayune distinction, I shall proceed to staunchly disagree nonetheless with the word: worth.

Wrong.

My correction: is to replace worth far less $$ wise then [sic] published with presently valued notably lower by comic art collectors than comic art collectors thus creating exceptional opportunity for those with an astute aesthetic eye and a sense of long-term value for a timeline in excess of next year's Heritage auction schedule.

Naturally I'm having a bit of fun here. If you see something you like, published or not, and the ask/next bid makes sense up against the present market context and your wallet size - go for it!

I have a lot of art, some is published, some is not. I really do love all my children equally for what each brings uniquely to my life.

[JadeGiant]

I agree that unpublished pages are worth less than published by a good margin (there are exceptions to every general rule as provided above) so be sure to do your homework if you are considering a purchase. 

I love a lot of unpublished art that I come across. I don't have a lot as they are sometimes sold as almost as expensive as published. If the art is finished enough (depends on how far the artist got on the art before the decision not to publish was made), appeals to me, and is priced right - I am a potential buyer. Another huge factor is the backstory; what was the art supposed to be used for? Why was it abandoned? Etc. 

I have a great cover and a couple interior pages from a Paul Pelletier Hulk vs Toad men story that was shelved. I was able to pick it up from Paul and he shared the details - I love the art and story behind it. 

The link below is a page I bought that was misrepresented as a published page. As I was looking to find out more about the page upon receiving it, I was able to determine that is wasn't published and had a fun backstory that was enjoyable to learn about. 

https://thejadegiant.wordpress.com/2016/07/01/the-lost-hulk-annual-and-the-abel-brigade/

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by JadeGiant

[Buzzetta]

10 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

That isn't always true, that unpublished pages are worth less than published.

Something like the unpublished original pages from Uncanny X-Men #137 before Jean Grey is killed off drawn by the same artist team as the published is probably worth more. Though pages from the issue published or unpublished are very expensive.

I good example of unpublished pages worth alot more than the published is Fantastic Four #286, Return of Jean Grey. John Byrne originally wrote and penciled the issue with Terry Austin inks which included a flashback of what happened in X-Men #100, Jim Shooter decided he wanted to change the flashback sequence and brought in Chris Claremont to rewrite three pages and Jackson Guice to redraw it. John Byrne didn't like Jim's messing with the issue so he refused to draw the rewritten sequence and had his name taken off the issue (credit for writing and pencils is "You Know Who").

Guice decided to ape John and Terry's style to keep consistent and he did such a good job many readers never knew the flashback is by a different artist. Flashback has four pages (one page Guice didn't redraw) I used to own three pages by Byrne from the flashback and I still own the three Guice did. Ended up selling two of the Byrne pages. The Byrne page went for 10x the corresponding Guice page went for. 

Here is the Byrne unpublished page I still own.

 

 

 

 

I was going to say the same thing.  It is rare that it happens but sometimes unpublished pages are more sought after than the published pages.  I believe another good example are the McFarlane GI Joe pages that were scrapped in GI Joe 61 vs Marshall Rogers who came in near the deadline to redraw the issue.

To be fair... McFarlane's style did NOT fit GI Joe and is pretty poor in comparison... 

Check it out here. 

https://www.cbr.com/gi-joe-todd-mcfarlane-rejected-version/2/

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, vodou said:

While likely to be accused of drawing a rather picayune distinction, I shall proceed to staunchly disagree nonetheless with the word: worth.

Wrong.

My correction: is to replace worth far less $$ wise then [sic] published with presently valued notably lower by comic art collectors than comic art collectors thus creating exceptional opportunity for those with an astute aesthetic eye and a sense of long-term value for a timeline in excess of next year's Heritage auction schedule.

Naturally I'm having a bit of fun here. If you see something you like, published or not, and the ask/next bid makes sense up against the present market context and your wallet size - go for it!

I have a lot of art, some is published, some is not. I really do love all my children equally for what each brings uniquely to my life.

As you anticipated my response and disarmed me 8-Mile Eminem v Papa Doc rap battle style, I’ll concede your point on worth v value as the picayune distinction will be judged by those who feel Vodou is nitpicking or brilliant.
 

The admiration and love for art should come from the feelings the art inspires within your heart mind body and soul. 
 

Worth = market gets $1 for A but $2 for B

Value = what the art means to you personally 

“And F this battle, I don’t wanna win, I’m outtie. Here, tell these people something they don’t know about me.”
                                         🎤 

 

[Benedict Judas Hel]

I have no interest in unpublished comic pages or prelim pages.  They are nice to look at and can be interesting, but they are not something I seek for my personal collection.

[SquareChaos]

1 hour ago, Benedict Judas Hel said:

I have no interest in unpublished comic pages or prelim pages.  They are nice to look at and can be interesting, but they are not something I seek for my personal collection.

I have little interest in unfinished works, but if the price is right and the work pulls me I'll still go for a finished piece. But by far I have published pages. Unless you're a commission collector (and a lot of those still see publication), I think it is just the nature of the hobby. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by SquareChaos
Wording

[vodou]

34 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I have little interest in unfinished works,

I love half-inked pages where the rest is still in pencil. Love 'em all day long and much more than a fully finished unpublished piece of similar content/execution.

[GotSuperPowers?]

1 minute ago, vodou said:

I love half-inked pages where the rest is still in pencil. Love 'em all day long and much more than a fully finished unpublished piece of similar content/execution.

That seems a perfect lead-in for me to contribute my example to this topic.  A mostly pencils Dale Keown Hulk 369 cover.  I've thought about getting someone to blueline ink it but never got beyond that.  Bob McLeod would be the obvious choice as he was one of the early run inkers.

If anyone has unpublished Keown Hulk pages/covers, I'd definitely be interested.  Not the pre-run stuff I'm afraid.