The thrill is gone. 7 7

[BlowUpTheMoon]

You'll pull a Roy:

My days here are numbered

I'm back!

[Sweet Lou 14]

1 hour ago, www.alexgross.com said:

thats slightly less than i paid for my surfer 1 9.4WP in 2019. did heritage jack my bid up to my max just because they can? i think so. am i still glad to have the book even though i apparently overpaid for it? you betcha. btw a 9.4 ow just sold for 8k so i think you may wanna revise your 9.6WP target price a bit!

Wow.

All I know is that I paid $3,000 for my 9.4 OW/W three years ago, and that Colorado Comics had a 9.6 OW/W very recently that they were offering for $8,575 (it is now gone).  Those were my data points -- I am unlikely to chase the book if people want to go berserk over it.

[batman_fan]

I have about 10,000 books that I am trying to trim down to about 1,000.  Just started selling stuff off this year.  For high dollar stuff, it is real easy but for the cheaper ungraded stuff it is harder to move.  I am thinking about bundling stuff and selling as lots like "Marvel Team Up group", "Marvel Horror", etc.

My wife and son don't really care about it and would likely sell it for pennies on the dollar but if I trim it down, then it will be less for them to need to deal with and it will be high dollar stuff so easy enough to sell through some place like Heritage.

[Sweet Lou 14]

34 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I have about 10,000 books that I am trying to trim down to about 1,000.  Just started selling stuff off this year.  For high dollar stuff, it is real easy but for the cheaper ungraded stuff it is harder to move.  I am thinking about bundling stuff and selling as lots like "Marvel Team Up group", "Marvel Horror", etc.

My wife and son don't really care about it and would likely sell it for pennies on the dollar but if I trim it down, then it will be less for them to need to deal with and it will be high dollar stuff so easy enough to sell through some place like Heritage.

I have a sales thread in the Silver/Bronze forum that's doing pretty well because it's all graded books, and generally high grade.  Those books move.

I have another sales thread in the Copper/Modern forum with a bunch of raw books, most of those high grade as well.  Much tougher to move those.  I've done some experimenting with submitting some of the modern books to CGC to see if I end up making a better profit.  (Still to early to say because CGC turnaround times are so bad it may take 10-12 months before they come back from pressing and grading.)

To your point, family members will not have the time or patience to do any of this -- anything we leave behind must be easy to deal with, otherwise frankly it's a bit inconsiderate (and more practically, they will realize far less financial benefit from it).

[batman_fan]

17 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I have a sales thread in the Silver/Bronze forum that's doing pretty well because it's all graded books, and generally high grade.  Those books move.

I have another sales thread in the Copper/Modern forum with a bunch of raw books, most of those high grade as well.  Much tougher to move those.  I've done some experimenting with submitting some of the modern books to CGC to see if I end up making a better profit.  (Still to early to say because CGC turnaround times are so bad it may take 10-12 months before they come back from pressing and grading.)

To your point, family members will not have the time or patience to do any of this -- anything we leave behind must be easy to deal with, otherwise frankly it's a bit inconsiderate (and more practically, they will realize far less financial benefit from it).

Thanks for the reply.  Definitely let me know how it goes with the copper stuff.  I have a group of Value tier stuff at "Scheduled fro Grading" since 9/15/2020.

[Sweet Lou 14]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

Thanks for the reply.  Definitely let me know how it goes with the copper stuff.  I have a group of Value tier stuff at "Scheduled fro Grading" since 9/15/2020.

My stuff is at "Received" (which means it's not even pressed yet) since August!

[batman_fan]

45 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

My stuff is at "Received" (which means it's not even pressed yet) since August!

Their TATs are really bad right now.  The next batch I am sending in are also Value tier but I think I would do a walkthrough after that

[shadroch]

Today is my birthday and I get a  call from my sister who wishes me a HBD and tells me she dreamed something special will happen today.  I get to my building today and there is someone waiting for me.  As I've gotten to know the local building inspectors far too well, I know he is not  was one of them. He introduces himself and asks me if I'd be open to selling. He pulls out a paper that has an offer for the building, with 25% down, 36 payments and then a balloon payment at the end. Says he wants to make it a residential three unit, with a professional office in the back. He says he makes his best offer first and it will never be higher. He will use a third party title insurance company as the " trustee", but i'm not sure that's the right term.   I like the idea but have to run it past a local RE attorney.

[lordbyroncomics]

So many great responses on this thread, some heartfelt, some hilarious, all relatable. I often wonder about the potential of any younger generation per se getting into serious collecting and cultivating of older books... I'm 41 and always felt like an anomaly at times based on my interest in the history of the medium and the magic appeal of older books. When I was 10 or so, I found Jeff Rovin's "The Encyclopedia of Super-Heroes" and all the Golden Age entries mesmerized me, this entire history that existed before I knew about it, over the ages... that was a sort of romance. I also remember an Uncle getting me an issue of 'Marvel Saga' as a child simply because it was a Marvel book, and having my first exposure to Kirby art (with that thick Ayers ink work) and also being captivated.

I know one guy who is in his early twenties who is very into Golden Age history, buys Alter Ego, collects the Library of American Comics hardcovers and I remarked to him that he never bought comics, whether Bronze Age or anything else and wondered if it was financial. He said it wasn't but just that he isn't much of an online shopper and he "can't count" on comic shops to carry Golden-Silver-Bronze anymore as most of them (or, at least a majority of them), have had to understandably transition to "pop culture" stores. I then wondered if people were going to keep collecting old comics and this kid said to me, "at one time, Doc Savage was a big deal, at one time Jack Armstrong the All-American Boy was a big deal. And those people that sought out those characters didn't create a new generation that cared about them which is why they're largely historical figures mentioned in passing now and not viable and can't support any new product featuring them." And I thought "holy mess" because he was right. Younger people bred on film and a constant stream of pop culture are never going to take the time and inclination and investment to build a collection. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised and proven wrong though. 

[Poekaymon]

Some very reasonable views and emotions in here.  The sustainability of the hobby is something I personally think about often--and usually I can't decide whether I want to buy or sell more.  I got back into it for pure nostalgia.  Over about a year and a half I spent (for me) an incredible amount of money diving back into it.  Had to take a step back and ended up liquidating 3/4ths of it recently.  Luckily, prices went up so much in just the last year that came out ahead in my unintentional flipping--even after fees/shipping both ways.  I'm now down to some core slabs, two short boxes of raws, and a bookcase of omnis.  Plus a couple statues.  I feel pretty good about that, though I may dump some more slabs.  There is only one book left I am still planning to buy of any value, and I have a bid on it now but I sort of regret it, and if I am outbid I won't try again. 

I will say, however, that a year and a half ago I couldn't believe some of the prices, and so I passed on lots of stuff.  I felt that surely it was a bubble.  Today, most of the stuff I passed on is 50-100% higher.  I don't even know what to make of it anymore.  Just the stuff I liked when I was a kid--Star Wars, GI Joe, Turtles, Usagi.  Everything I want to buy at this point is the highest it's ever been, and substantially higher than it was even a month or two ago.   I usually put in bids around or a bit higher than recent sales, and I am almost always outbid.  Sometimes I feel like the auctionhouses are rigged against me--whatever I bid on gets automatically bid up another 10-20% regardless of what it used to go for.  It's absolutely bonkers.  

I see some people here selling comic books to fund other things they want/need.  That makes sense.  For people who would simply be putting the money in the bank or into stocks, and aren't going to miss any meals even if that money disappears, might as well just leave it in books and see what happens.  People need hobbies.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Poekaymon

[lordbyroncomics]

38 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

Some very reasonable views and emotions in here.  The sustainability of the hobby is something I personally think about often--and usually I can't decide whether I want to buy or sell more.  I got back into it for pure nostalgia.  Over about a year and a half I spent (for me) an incredible amount of money diving back into it.  Had to take a step back and ended up liquidating 3/4ths of it recently.  Luckily, prices went up so much in just the last year that came out ahead in my unintentional flipping--even after fees/shipping both ways.  I'm now down to some core slabs, two short boxes of raws, and a bookcase of omnis.  Plus a couple statues.  I feel pretty good about that, though I may dump some more slabs.  There is only one book left I am still planning to buy of any value, and I have a bid on it now but I sort of regret it, and if I am outbid I won't try again. 

I will say, however, that a year and a half ago I couldn't believe some of the prices, and so I passed on lots of stuff.  I felt that surely it was a bubble.  Today, most of the stuff I passed on is 50-100% higher.  I don't even know what to make of it anymore.  Just the stuff I liked when I was a kid--Star Wars, GI Joe, Turtles, Usagi.  Everything I want to buy at this point is the highest it's ever been, and substantially higher than it was even a month or two ago.   I usually put in bids around or a bit higher than recent sales, and I am almost always outbid.  Sometimes I feel like the auctionhouses are rigged against me--whatever I bid on gets automatically bid up another 10-20% regardless of what it used to go for.  It's absolutely bonkers.  

I see some people here selling comic books to fund other things they want/need.  That makes sense.  For people who would simply be putting the money in the bank or into stocks, and aren't going to miss any meals even if that money disappears, might as well just leave it in books and see what happens.  People need hobbies.

 

 

Yeah, I completely relate to not knowing what to make of it anymore- it's increasingly impossible to kind of anticipate where prices are heading.

I also feel for all of the people that are getting older and/or realizing that their heirs have no interest in taking on a collection. All I can say to that is this- we have one life on this Earth as far as I know and it's important that we spend some of it pursuing those things that bring us escapism and happiness. Your collection wasn't wasted because you have to sell it. All of those moments of holding a specific issue or being wistful over a great cover, whatever- those things all counted. In the long view, nothing we did hobby wise was "important"- it's all subjective. You spent time pursuing and building and having the knowledge that you owned something you'd long wanted- those moments are NEVER wasted. Things change and nothing lasts forever, but in the time that you had those issues, it was magic. Never forget.

[PopKulture]

1 hour ago, wisbyron said:

Yeah, I completely relate to not knowing what to make of it anymore- it's increasingly impossible to kind of anticipate where prices are heading.

I also feel for all of the people that are getting older and/or realizing that their heirs have no interest in taking on a collection. All I can say to that is this- we have one life on this Earth as far as I know and it's important that we spend some of it pursuing those things that bring us escapism and happiness. Your collection wasn't wasted because you have to sell it. All of those moments of holding a specific issue or being wistful over a great cover, whatever- those things all counted. In the long view, nothing we did hobby wise was "important"- it's all subjective. You spent time pursuing and building and having the knowledge that you owned something you'd long wanted- those moments are NEVER wasted. Things change and nothing lasts forever, but in the time that you had those issues, it was magic. Never forget.

Wow, for just your sixth(!) post, there's a lot of wisdom here! 

Personally, I can't believe prices will continue on anything close to their current trajectories after people start going out to restaurants and baseball games again. We won't all be sitting at our computers feverishly buying anything and everything we're remotely interested in just to assuage our boredom. Couple that with all the stuff that will be coming to market if when the economy softens. And then there's people getting old and cashing out, dying off and their heirs cashing out, them getting disheartened and cashing out... 

That said, I plan to continue buying antiques and collectibles for as long as I can. I stick to a modest budget. If stuff goes up, great. If things crash and burn, my exposure is limited. If prices come waaaayy down, I might be able to buy things I can't even think about buying now. There's a lot of upside either way. And to your point, I NEVER got into this to make money. If I do, great. But all the things I've read and learned along the way and all the people and interesting stories, all those brisk walks around the fairgrounds - well, I can scarcely think of time better spent. The thrill of the hunt, that unexpected diamond in the rough, finding that last Kid Colt you need for your mini-run. At the end of the day (or each or our days), it's still a mighty crazy cool artform! 

Edited December 6, 2020 by PopKulture

[lordbyroncomics]

5 minutes ago, PopKulture said:

Wow, for just your sixth(!) post, there's a lot of wisdom here! 

Personally, I can't believe prices will continue on anything close to their current trajectories after people start going out to restaurants and baseball games again. We won't all be sitting at our computers feverishly buying anything and everything we're remotely interested in just to assuage our boredom. Couple that with all the stuff that will be coming to market if when the economy softens. And then there's people getting old and cashing out, dying off and their heirs cashing out, them getting disheartened and cashing out... 

That said, I plan to continue buying antiques and collectibles for as long as I can. I stick to a modest budget. If stuff goes up, great. If things crash and burn, my exposure is limited. If prices come waaaayy down, I might be able to buy things I can't even think about buying now. There's a lot of upside either way. And to your point, I NEVER got into this to make money. If I do, great. But all the things I've read and learned along the way and all the people and interesting stories, all those brisk walks around the fairgrounds - well, I can scarcely think of time better spent. The thrill of the hunt, that unexpected diamond in the rough, finding that last Kid Colt you need for your mini-run. At the end of the day (or each or our days), it's still a mighty crazy cool artform! 

Well, thank you for the kind words. Sixth post but years and years of living vicariously through everyone else's posts! (re: lurking) 

It's something I think about quite often. I really do believe the money we're left over with after tending to our obligations is a means to an end to pursue the things in life we're passionate about. For me, my logic is that I can always earn more money but holding in my hands a Fawcett in FN condition and knowing it existed in 1944 or whatever- that's a really magical feeling. I'm not ageist and I believe we can keep having great feelings until the end of our life but I'm talking about that very specific MAGIC feeling. It's not chasing nostalgia or trying to regenerate some outlook we had as kids- it's the magic that only people like us can get when we have these things. I believe in it strongly and this is why I again reiterate that no matter what happens to your collection when you move on or pass on- those moments were never wasted. If you pursued a comic book collection you clearly weren't casually interested or involved; you had a passion, a genuine appreciation. That passion might wane but the moments you pursued and collected and then had those issues were not meaningless.

I'm with my learned friend there, I also can't believe prices will continue on their current trajectories. But like everything else, we can always be proven wrong! And I hope I'm there when it happens. It's been a bleak and draining year filled with legit tragedy. But where there's life, there's potential. The best could be yet to come. I'm also always hoping some kids get an inkling of how cool past eras in comics have been. It's all about accessibility; surely there are young people heavily interested in older music, Silent Film and so forth. We'll see.

[PopKulture]

2 hours ago, wisbyron said:

I then wondered if people were going to keep collecting old comics and this kid said to me, "at one time, Doc Savage was a big deal, at one time Jack Armstrong the All-American Boy was a big deal. And those people that sought out those characters didn't create a new generation that cared about them which is why they're largely historical figures mentioned in passing now and not viable and can't support any new product featuring them."

I think this is mostly correct. First, there are few kids that collect anything anymore. It used to be when I was a kid, there were many gateway collecting avenues. Almost every kid collected coins, stamps or baseball cards. Some even collected rocks and arrowheads, or made animal paw imprints!   Point being, once you've been bitten by the collecting bug, it usually follows you around and you're most often a lifelong collector. So, yes, there's that dour point: for the most part, we aren't creating collectors anymore.  Further compounding that, very few kids actually read comics, so there's never going to be that organic curiosity about the comics that came before them, i.e., back issues (the very crux of our hobby). 

The Fantastic Four was one of my favorite titles as a kid, but I was too young to have read the Lee-Kirby books as they rolled out originally. No worries, that Buckler/Sinnott stuff was quite satisfying in its own right. And, sure, I got a glimpse of that Lee-Kirby greatness with that first FF treasury edition which reprinted none other than the Galactus Trilogy, in all its splendor. If I wasn't hooked going in, I sure as heck was hooked coming out! I read that oversized edition to death, and when I was through reading it, I traced over and colored in a bunch or the pages with markers. Nothing beats the moment, however, when I was at a family friend's house and we were rummaging through a box of his older brother's cast-offs, hoping to find some old comics in there. When I first held a tattered FF 43 in my hands - Lo, There Shall Be An Ending - I was beyond mesmerized. This was a concrete link to the past. It instantly connected me to his older brother and everybody that ever grabbed a copy off a spinner rack back in the day. 

But... back to what was to be my main point. I think into each generation there will be kids born with a curiosity about what came before. I collect the Jetsons and the Flintstones, and Howdy Doody before them, even though I was nary a glimmer in my parents eye when he debuted with Clarabel and Buffalo Bob. I also hunt Captain Video and Hopalong Cassidy, even though those are equally removed in the rearview mirror of history for me. Same goes for Roy Rogers before them, and Tarzan, Tom Mix and Flash Gordon before that. Add to that Fatty Arbuckle, Hoot Gibson, the Katzenjammer Kids, Billy Bounce, the Yellow Kid - it's all Americana, and I'm interested, even though most of that stuff is light years removed from having any relevancy or current viability nowadays.

So, will there be enough of these aforementioned kids born into subsequent generations to keep the flame burning? Probably a few. Enough to bet on these artifacts continuing their upward climb? Frankly, I'd be amazed, but I'd love to be proven wrong. One thing I'm pretty certain about is, despite my better efforts, they won't be my kids.  

[PopKulture]

26 minutes ago, wisbyron said:

I'm with my learned friend there, I also can't believe prices will continue on their current trajectories. But like everything else, we can always be proven wrong! And I hope I'm there when it happens. It's been a bleak and draining year filled with legit tragedy. But where there's life, there's potential. The best could be yet to come. I'm also always hoping some kids get an inkling of how cool past eras in comics have been. It's all about accessibility; surely there are young people heavily interested in older music, Silent Film and so forth. We'll see.

Ha! We were simultaneously writing about many of the same points and hopes for the future of the hobby! 

Trust me, I look forward to being proven wrong!  

[lordbyroncomics]

41 minutes ago, PopKulture said:

Ha! We were simultaneously writing about many of the same points and hopes for the future of the hobby! 

Trust me, I look forward to being proven wrong!  

Great minds think alike my friend!

As to your other point about kids not collecting much of anything anymore... well, this is a different conversation perhaps but one that trickles into what we're currently discussing. It has many layers to the foundation of why that is but surely accessibility is a big part of it. Secondly, let's note that action figures and such have completely converted to being geared towards grown men and the adult collector. I'm not making a judgment or saying that's good or bad but I do think it plays a significant part in toy lines not pitching new lines for children that might potentially become successful. It's geared to a very niche market and the accessibility isn't there anymore. It's not cheap, it's not geared or advertised to children... and, much like with the comics industry, you'd get this very lazy "well, kids are into video games" remark which is maddening to me. So, try harder. There's so many poor kids who don't live on video games. Somehow get comics and toys and such to them in any capacity. I grew up in utter poverty and my Mother and I were sometimes without electric and such, a few times we stayed in shelters. This is not a woe is me story at all; it just means I didn't get a Nintendo. What I could always get for the most part was comics at 7-11. People collect something because there's some sort of intrinsic connection- and *that* is what is missing from media today. Young people can't make a connection because it's largely fleeting and fast-moving video games where you always need to upgrade to the next version and so forth. Again, not a judgment but an observation- when you are immersed in a video game it's still escapism but you aren't using your imagination as much as kids used to with their toys and things of that nature. I'm rambling a bit (and I apologize) but all of these factors work against cultivating a collector. They don't have the vast awareness of the possibilities of it and they don't have the attention span to get these things. Their world is their phone. If companies spearheaded new toy lines and publishers found actual ways to really pitch towards readers that weren't just making simplified lines of existing storylines for kids- there might be a small portion of young people bound to be into collecting. Might.

[StreetPreacher]

On 12/2/2020 at 1:59 PM, shadroch said:

Honestly, that excites me more than having another half box of slabs.  I think selling 10 % of my "vault" books, 1/3 of my GA, SA and BA books plus whatever I can sell from the copper to today will net at least another $50,000 while still leaving the majority of my books untouched.  Books are selling at pretty high prices- I sold a weak VG Conan 1 for $200.That's easily a third more than I expected. 

Although all of that stuff will likely be old, falling apart, and need repair or replacement in 10 years.  While your comic book collection would likely be worth more than it is now

[StreetPreacher]

15 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I have another sales thread in the Copper/Modern forum with a bunch of raw books, most of those high grade as well.  Much tougher to move those.

I just find that most people seem to list their RAW books for too high a price, so I just skip most of the listings.  I mean, I guess that Infinity Inc. is worth $20, but I'm not paying more than $2 for a book that most people have never heard of, and that relatively few people are shopping for it..

Live I've watched this same issue of Infinity Inc #21 on sale for $20 for a few months...  I guess it'll sell eventually, so it's not worth it reduce the price?

[KCOComics]

9 hours ago, PopKulture said:

I think this is mostly correct. First, there are few kids that collect anything anymore. It used to be when I was a kid, there were many gateway collecting avenues. Almost every kid collected coins, stamps or baseball cards. Some even collected rocks and arrowheads, or made animal paw imprints!   Point being, once you've been bitten by the collecting bug, it usually follows you around and you're most often a lifelong collector. 

Kids still collect allot. 

My son is 8 with about 15M pokeymon cards. All his friends have them, talk about them and trade them. They have rock collections and shell collections.  I think the collecting bug is fine. It's just a question of will it transition to comic books?

Edited December 6, 2020 by KCOComics

[KCOComics]

8 hours ago, wisbyron said:

Great minds think alike my friend!

As to your other point about kids not collecting much of anything anymore... well, this is a different conversation perhaps but one that trickles into what we're currently discussing. It has many layers to the foundation of why that is but surely accessibility is a big part of it. Secondly, let's note that action figures and such have completely converted to being geared towards grown men and the adult collector. I'm not making a judgment or saying that's good or bad but I do think it plays a significant part in toy lines not pitching new lines for children that might potentially become successful. It's geared to a very niche market and the accessibility isn't there anymore. It's not cheap, it's not geared or advertised to children... and, much like with the comics industry, you'd get this very lazy "well, kids are into video games" remark which is maddening to me. So, try harder

I think your right about this. Comics have shifted to an older demographic.  My son and all the kids

I can't buy my kids a Batman or superman comic book these days.  They are really violent and marketed to older kids. Graphic novels are huge. My kids read Dog Man and captain underpants. I can't transition them to comics because it's not marketed for them.