BeatleBlueCat DEFRAUDING BUYERS with Massive SHILL BIDDING and Same old "Buy CGC graded 7.5, crack and sell as raw "NM" scam 10 10

[shadroch]

1 minute ago, kav said:

So has your argument changed from "he's not doing anything wrong" to "No one's gonna do anything about it"?

I've never said he wasn't doing anything wrong. I said no one is going to jail over it.  It also was in reference to his  cracking out books and selling them at higher grades. That is not illegal, in Texas, in Florida or anywhere else. 

[Jimmy Linguini]

1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

Eight time: 

Shilling is the crime. Not scumbaggery. 

Yes, shill bidding is an officially illegal practice. ... Yet, shill bidding can go to the federal level, so then: Additionally, you can be charged under 18 U.S. Code Section 1343 for wire fraud.

 

Arn't there big comic auction sites that let you bid on your own consignments? I thought different states had different rules for this.

[Jimmy Linguini]

1 hour ago, D2 said:

What I find disappointing is people defending activity that degrades the hobby and the industry.

 

There is nothing wrong with pointing out malpractice.

 

Is it buyer beware? Do your own research before buying? Yes. 
 

So if people don’t point out fraudulent or even sketchy activity, what’s the point of doing your research anyway?

 

 

 

Is it people defending this particular seller or people defending the practice of cracking open books for resale because a CGC grade is really just one persons opinion?

[WPPJames]

5 minutes ago, kav said:

"No one's gonna do anything about it"?

I'm firmly in the 99% of the time no one will do anything about it. Not because they *shouldn't*, but reality often trumps what's the right thing to do. Although, you'd hope, if occasionally stuff like this gets called into question other bad actors might have second thoughts. Sometimes you just have to prosecute one to shut down a whole lot more who thought they could operate with absolute immunity.

[shadroch]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

 

Arn't there big comic auction sites that let you bid on your own consignments? I thought different states had different rules for this.

Please don't attempt to bring facts into this. It will just muddle things up. 

I thought The Donnelly Act prevented shilling, but it turns out to be a NY act, not a Federal one.

Edited December 21, 2020 by shadroch

[kav]

6 minutes ago, shadroch said:

I've never said he wasn't doing anything wrong. I said no one is going to jail over it.  It also was in reference to his  cracking out books and selling them at higher grades. That is not illegal, in Texas, in Florida or anywhere else. 

Your argument was "He's not doing anything wrong" when it was about the crack and manipulate images.  Now we have the shilling and your argument has become "No one is gonna do anything about it".  It seems like you will defend this guy no matter what, and find a reason.

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

See something, say something. You've got the idea. 

Is CGC's restoration check offensive to anyone? Because they are checking for deception? 

I always appreciate your detective work, JJJ, as well as the various opinions of my fellow board members. Ultimately, I hope this thread has been enlightening and helps potential buyers when they're purchasing raw books on eBay. 

And I hope you all have a great holiday...  

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

1 hour ago, Ride the Tiger said:

Why don't you people that don't believe in this cause go start your own thread in support of the piece of garbage? In simpler terms G T F O already. Don't like what we're doing go talk about it in another thread.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

 

Arn't there big comic auction sites that let you bid on your own consignments? I thought different states had different rules for this.

Yes.

 

In Texas...

[shadroch]

1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

See something, say something. You've got the idea. 

Is CGC's restoration check offensive to anyone? Because they are checking for deception? 

So now restoration is deception?  

When CGC had a secret pressing service available only to certain clients, was that deception?

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by shadroch

[The Less Blob]

Don't shill in the UK!!: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-fined-bidding-his-own-online-auctions-2018849.html

Here are the NY prosecutions from 16 years ago: https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2004/shill-bidding-exposed-online-auctions

But yeah, it doesn't happen often

 

[Hollywood1892]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

Your argument was "He's not doing anything wrong" when it was about the crack and manipulate images.  Now we have the shilling and your argument has become "No one is gonna do anything about it".  It seems like you will defend this guy no matter what, and find a reason.

Well maybe he is a true friend, even if I was doing something bad a true friend would defend my cause

Imagine I was doing something right or wrong and my friend talked me out of it, all the while he was backstabbing me, now that would be someone I could never trust again, wouldn't you agree?

[The Less Blob]

8 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Please don't attempt to bring facts into this. It will just muddle things up. 

I thought The Donnelly Act prevented shilling, but it turns out to be a NY act, not a Federal one.

This seller happens to be in New York. The federal wire fraud statute probably applies too and many states have laws similar to the Donnelly Act.

[THE_BEYONDER]

2 minutes ago, shadroch said:

 

When CGC had a secret pressing service available only to certain clients, was that deception?

 

Yup

[sledgehammer]

1 minute ago, the blob said:

 

But yeah, it doesn't happen often.

It's rarely as cut and dried as it is with this dope.

I've never caught anyone before dumb enough to make 700 bids in one month, exclusively on his own auctions.

[Bird]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

 

Arn't there big comic auction sites that let you bid on your own consignments? I thought different states had different rules for this.

I live in NJ and I cannot bid on my HA consignments. It says you are consignor and cannot bid on the item page. I only know this much.

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

Is " acting like a muppet" some kool new phrase us retirees don't get?

My nickname in Rugby was Gonzo, so perhaps you have a point.

To quote a famous philosofizer: I'm not on anyones side, because no one is entirely on my side. 

My original point was that there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the grade CGC gives a book, and it is not a criminal violation to call a book that CGC graded a 7.5 a 9.0, nor is it wrong to call a 7.5 CGC book a 6.0 if thats what you think it is. 

Tenth time

Shilling is a crime. Not buying a CGC 7.5, cracking it, taking a photo, photoshopping most of the flaws away, then grading the restored image 9.4 meanwhile the book is still the same 7.5 it was because the image was the only thing improved upon. 

Again, that's scumbaggery and the scum is much thicker than simply disagreement with CGC.

Shilling is illegal. 

3 Men Are Charged With Fraud In 1,100 Art Auctions on EBay - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[The Less Blob]

1 minute ago, Bird said:

I live in NJ and I cannot bid on my HA consignments. It says you are consignor and cannot bid on the item page. I only know this much.

I thought it was that Heritage employees could bid on Heritage auctions

 

[shadroch]

1 minute ago, sledgehammer said:

It's rarely as cut and dried as it is with this dope.

I've never caught anyone before dumb enough to make 700 bids in one month, exclusively on his own auctions.

Ebay doesn't seem to have an issue with it, do they?  

[Jimmy Linguini]

5 minutes ago, the blob said:

Don't shill in the UK!!: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-fined-bidding-his-own-online-auctions-2018849.html

Here are the NY prosecutions from 16 years ago: https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2004/shill-bidding-exposed-online-auctions

But yeah, it doesn't happen often

 

After skimming the case details it looks like he was only caught because it was his son bidding on the items using his real name. no?