Well, CGC is raising prices for their services, and... 14 14

[IbukiLord]

Already costs me a little over $50 to grade a book a few extra $ won't hurt my third world pocket.

[Jeffro.]

10 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Haha. The comments are hilarious. They basically boil down to this:

"CGC is hosing us. The only thing that will change is how much it will cost me to get my books graded. Still long waits. Still ambiguous grading. Still damaged books. Eliminating some services. I don't like it but I'll suck it up!"

And that's how they know they can do this.

[iae21]

14 hours ago, snitzer said:

Can I write-off these increases on my fancy new IRS 1099 next year? 

Just caught this now......People do not understand the recent tax changes regarding online sales.   As people use Paypal, Apple Pay, or eBay Managed Payment to get compensated.    

As of January 1st 2022, any electronics payments received totaling $600 or more (regardless if it was one or multiple transaction) will result in a 1099 being issued.  This is because Uncle Sam wants a cut of everyone's side hustle.   I have my own thoughts about why they're doing this, considering how the US Govt prints $$$ trillions a year, and doesn't need this 'Funding', but I will not get into it here.

The rule previously stated that a combination of +200 transactions AND +$20,000 would result in you receiving a 1099.  

Between the tax rule changes and these CGC price increases, it will have an impact to this comic market.  I would expect prices to increase (even more than they already have this year) to compensate for all these extra 'costs' in the immediate/near future.  

Edited April 22, 2021 by iae21

[theCapraAegagrus]

[Foolkiller]

Nobody likes it when change in general occurs and certainly not when prices are raised.  CGC is a business, not a charity and it's primary goal is to make money -- like every other business.  The vintage comic market is hotter than ever and people are sending books in at a record pace.  They've had to expand in order to meet demand and that obviously has costs, but the reason to do so is so that they can make more money.  Just like the fact that the reason most people send books in for encapsulation is to increase their value.  In the free market system we all have a choice -- we could 1) No longer submit and sell books raw.  2) Use a competitor 3) Continue to submit.  Most people are going to choose 3.  I have zero problem with the changes -- CGC has necessarily become more corporate over time -- raising prices is a further step in that direction.  But the reality is, why shouldn't they be taking advantage of this market the same way most of us are?  CGC has helped all of us for many, many years increase the value of our collections or businesses.  They've become an essential component of this industry/business.  If you are opposed to their actions or prices, you do have choices.  

[Randall Ries]

10 hours ago, thirdgreenham said:

I'm fine with them raising their prices.  Slightly overdue, to be honest.

Then why do I have the same feeling I get when Congress votes themselves a pay raise while saying "No" on increasing minimum wage in the US?

[Black_Adam]

This move is obviously a boon for the competition. PGX better tell his mom they're going to need a bigger basement!

[namisgr]

Say I've got some magazines worthy of being graded.  The economy tier turnaround time for them is now 88 business days.  If I were so inclined to have them pressed by CCS, the turnaround time for that service is 110 business days.  So adding in the times for having the submission reach the 'received' stage and the quality control and shipping times at the far end, the process would take around a year before the slabbed and graded mags would be in my hands.  That's slow.  Clearly, with this level of demand as reflected in the glacial speed of the current turnaround times, and as many others in the thread have pointed out already, CGCs business can easily support price increases for their services.

Edited April 22, 2021 by namisgr

[MatterEaterLad]

I literally renewed my Elite membership two days before this announcement. 

[1Cool]

I wonder why they waited to only a week before the change to tell us about it?  With so many changes going into effect you would think a month notice would be reasonable.  Are they just hoping to reduce the avalanche of books to only a week?

[Randall Ries]

10 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

Nobody likes it when change in general occurs and certainly not when prices are raised.  CGC is a business, not a charity and it's primary goal is to make money -- like every other business.  The vintage comic market is hotter than ever and people are sending books in at a record pace.  They've had to expand in order to meet demand and that obviously has costs, but the reason to do so is so that they can make more money.  Just like the fact that the reason most people send books in for encapsulation is to increase their value.  In the free market system we all have a choice -- we could 1) No longer submit and sell books raw.  2) Use a competitor 3) Continue to submit.  Most people are going to choose 3.  I have zero problem with the changes -- CGC has necessarily become more corporate over time -- raising prices is a further step in that direction.  But the reality is, why shouldn't they be taking advantage of this market the same way most of us are?    They've become an essential component of this industry/business.  If you are opposed to their actions or prices, you do have choices.  

All those things are true. I imagine there is resistance for a couple of reasons. One of those may be we have seen what happens when a business goes corporate. Usually, administrative costs are the first to skyrocket. New help for the suits. Raises for the suits. Perks for the suits. I wonder how many of the 70 new hires are office workers versus graders, slabbers and QC? While it's true that "CGC has helped all of us for many, many years increase the value of our collections or businesses", the opposite is more accurate. Submissions have also helped them become a giant in the industry. Given people employment. Given a company an opportunity to be a voice in OUR hobby. Let them never ever forget that as they begin dictating terms to the very people they owe their existence to.

Another reason may be because in the backs of peoples minds, submitters can see that quality in grading, slabbing and QC is starting to slide. Books with resto get blue labels. Not just conserved but blue labels with obvious resto. Books getting damages in the slabbing area. Grading is all over the place. By becoming "stricter" or "more lenient", that implies that there is no real set standard for grading and the grading house is actually setting the standards wherever it chooses to. Today's 9.0 might be tomorrows 7.0. That doesn't spell good things for those that would like to re-submit books from another grading company.

So, submitters are supposed to believe 70 new hires across ALL their business locations is going to be the magic wand that cures the ills they have been experiencing lately? Long wait times. Long wait times and find their book in the bottom of a well in the slab? Torn covers? Pay for their own grader notes? Raise your hands how many people would like grader notes included in th price of their submissions? They take notes. No extra time involved.

In my view, CGC is no better or worse than other grading companies. And sure. They have options. If CGC doesn't pull the nose up, they may find a lot of people begin to explore those options. I'm just saying I wouldn't want to submit books on a regular basis and cross my fingers every time. I admit my idea of collecting probably differs from a lot of other peoples as I am not in it to make money.

[Randall Ries]

4 hours ago, Domo Arigato said:

Wait just a damn minute.

Are these cost increases going to cause sellers to overprice their books on eBay now?

 

 

 

Even more so than they are doing now.

[blazingbob]

4 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

All those things are true. I imagine there is resistance for a couple of reasons. One of those may be we have seen what happens when a business goes corporate. Usually, administrative costs are the first to skyrocket. New help for the suits. Raises for the suits. Perks for the suits. I wonder how many of the 70 new hires are office workers versus graders, slabbers and QC? While it's true that "CGC has helped all of us for many, many years increase the value of our collections or businesses", the opposite is more accurate. Submissions have also helped them become a giant in the industry. Given people employment. Given a company an opportunity to be a voice in OUR hobby. Let them never ever forget that as they begin dictating terms to the very people they owe their existence to.

Another reason may be because in the backs of peoples minds, submitters can see that quality in grading, slabbing and QC is starting to slide. Books with resto get blue labels. Not just conserved but blue labels with obvious resto. Books getting damages in the slabbing area. Grading is all over the place. By becoming "stricter" or "more lenient", that implies that there is no real set standard for grading and the grading house is actually setting the standards wherever it chooses to. Today's 9.0 might be tomorrows 7.0. That doesn't spell good things for those that would like to re-submit books from another grading company.

So, submitters are supposed to believe 70 new hires across ALL their business locations is going to be the magic wand that cures the ills they have been experiencing lately? Long wait times. Long wait times and find their book in the bottom of a well in the slab? Torn covers? Pay for their own grader notes? Raise your hands how many people would like grader notes included in th price of their submissions? They take notes. No extra time involved.

In my view, CGC is no better or worse than other grading companies. And sure. They have options. If CGC doesn't pull the nose up, they may find a lot of people begin to explore those options. I'm just saying I wouldn't want to submit books on a regular basis and cross my fingers every time. I admit my idea of collecting probably differs from a lot of other peoples as I am not in it to make money.

First off adding 70 bodies is not going to help the turnaround times.

And frankly I've heard this for the last 20 years with previous price increases.

The piece that tells me nothing will change is the 50% increase in fast track.  What business incentive do they have to speed things up if the "grading community" will pay 50% more to get the books back faster.  

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, iae21 said:

Just caught this now......People do not understand the recent tax changes regarding online sales.   As people use Paypal, Apple Pay, or eBay Managed Payment to get compensated.    

As of January 1st 2022, any electronics payments received totaling $600 or more (regardless if it was one or multiple transaction) will result in a 1099 being issued.  This is because Uncle Sam wants a cut of everyone's side hustle.   I have my own thoughts about why they're doing this, considering how the US Govt prints $$$ trillions a year, and doesn't need this 'Funding', but I will not get into it here.

The rule previously stated that a combination of +200 transactions AND +$20,000 would result in you receiving a 1099.  

Between the tax rule changes and these CGC price increases, it will have an impact to this comic market.  I would expect prices to increase (even more than they already have this year) to compensate for all these extra 'costs' in the immediate/near future.  

I have been thinking the same thing since the beginning of the year. The collector and not the peripheral forces like the IRS, Ebay, CGC and PayPal have to eat these costs and in turn will have to raise the prices on their books. Which people will interpret as "Value". (This is what this book is worth! While reality says "No. It isn't. Don't buy it.")

Why should I get any raw books graded and sell them? So I can pay everybody else and then stare at the bills that come from all sides now? I already do that with all my other expenses. This hobby is supposed to be fun for the average collector. Doesn't seem like as much fun as it used to be. It's what happens when middle men get involved.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Randall Ries

[Lord_Raiden]

5 hours ago, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

I have been fortunate to work with a very helpful woman in CGC accounting who, among other things, has removed charges to the credit card I had on file since I pay by check for my submissions.

glad i'm not the only one double charged 

[Randall Ries]

15 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

First off adding 70 bodies is not going to help the turnaround times.

And frankly I've heard this for the last 20 years with previous price increases.

The piece that tells me nothing will change is the 50% increase in fast track.  What business incentive do they have to speed things up if the "grading community" will pay 50% more to get the books back faster.  

What I see beginning to happen (and I'm sure it's been said before) is the small collector or the collector who doesn't have $40,000 falling out their behinds for one book whenever they want one are simply going to get choked out. They will get nickel and dimed out of the hobby and then the comic book collecting industry is going to turn into another Wall Street. Trading comics like stocks. Already see the jargon. "Blue Chip" and so forth. It's not anything NEW. It's just getting more intense. Then it turns into "Oh well too bad you don't have what it takes to compete in this market you are a 'timid element' and buh-bye". But you are saying that to someone who just wanted to collect books they actually love. Not some other greedhead. Not IN THIS to compete.

It'd be one thing if increased costs would improve things. As if we could get value for our money, but normally it is just that. A price increase that gets absorbed into the entity and nothing changes concerning quality.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Randall Ries

[blazingbob]

2 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

What I see beginning to happen (and I'm sure it's been said before) is the small collector or the collector who doesn't have $40,000 falling out their behinds for one book whenever they want one are simply going to get choked out. They will get nickel and dimed out of the hobby and then the comic book collecting industry is going to turn into another Wall Street. Trading comics like stocks. Already see the jargon. "Blue Chip" and so forth. It's not anything NEW. It's just getting more intense. Then it turns into "Oh well too bad you don't have what it takes to compete in this market you are a 'timid element' and buh-bye". But you are saying that to someone who just wanted to collect books they actually love. Not some other greedhead. Not IN THIS to compete.

It'd be one thing if increased costs would improve things. As if we could get value for our money, but normally it is just that. A price increase that gets absorbed into the entity and nothing changes concerning quality.

While I agree with you "we" have been nickel and dimed for years with getting books graded and the costs associated with doing it.  Shipping there/CCS/CGC/invoice fee $5/fast track fees (if applicable)/shipping back/selling fees/payment fees/taxes etc.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I like to bash CGC as much as the next guy, but it’s kinda silly to complain about a price hike while the books you’re submitting have tripled in value. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by THE_BEYONDER

[blazingbob]

4 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

I like to bash CGC as much as the next guy, but it’s kinda silly to complain about a price hike while the books you’re submitting have tripled in value. 

If CGC wants to partake in the appreciation of collectibles then why don't they sell them for me to?  Or have we all forgot when CGC comes asking for submissions?

[PKJ]

4 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

I like to bash CGC as much as the next guy, but it’s kinda silly to complain about a price hike while the books you’re submitting have tripled in value. 

By the time they get back they may be 4x. No way any of this improves TAT. Not in the short term, PSA had to completely halt submissions to try and get it under control for them, they only allow the most expensive tiers right now.