Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[lou_fine]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:37 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, as we all know here, SA Marvel super-hero books are definitely not a real challenge to acquire as a complete set of them can be acquire in mere days as long as you are willing to open up your wallet and not looking for only HG copies. 

 

On 7/15/2022 at 6:55 PM, Pantodude said:

That's not entirely accurate or fair.   There are Marvel SA super-hero books that appear to be as hard or harder to find (even in the lowest grades) than the GA keys.  The complete set of a specific Marvel SA issue includes the cents and pence version, as they were printed at the same time/place.

It should be pointed out that like most collectors here, when they are talking about the SA Marvel super-hero books, they are referring to the standard American versions and not any of the associated variants which were printed and distributed.  Although my comment was also in reference to the standard American versions only, you would indeed be correct if you also included the non-American cents, pence, and what have you versions that exist out there.  

 

On 7/15/2022 at 4:37 PM, lou_fine said:

Definitely not the case for HTF GA books, especially for ones from outside the Big 2 publishers, with some books taking years (if ever) to find their way into the marketplace, and then only if you are lucky enough to be in the right place and time to spot them.  

 

On 7/15/2022 at 6:55 PM, Pantodude said:

By comparison, Pep comics 22, TEC 27, 28, 36, and 37, Action Comics 1, 2, 3, 4, and 10, Archie Comics 1, Batman 1, Superman 1, More Fun Comics 52, All Star Comics 8, Green Lantern 1, and All-American Comics 16, are all for sale on eBay right now.  And a Captain America Comics 1 and 2, Adventure Comcis #40, Action Comics 13 (3 of them!) and another More Fun Comics 52 will be in an upcoming ComicConnect auction.

Again, you would be correct here except that you missed my qualifier that I was referring to GA books outside the Big 2 GA publishers (i.e. DC and Timely) and your list of GA books are all DC's and Timely except for the Pep 22 and Archie 1.  All of your books are pretty much what would be consider ed to be GA keys and as we all know, the key books are usually generally always the ones that finds their way into the marketplace more often than the other ones.  The HTF GA books which I would be referring to would be more of the lesser publishers like Centaurs, Prize, and the likes and also really more of the non-keys that don't tend to make their way into the marketplace that often.  Especially in the case of books that have either less than 10 or in some cases, even less than 5 copies slabbed to date after all this time.  

Edited July 16, 2022 by lou_fine

[Pantodude]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:15 PM, lou_fine said:

Although my comment was also in reference to the standard American versions only, you would indeed be correct if you also included the non-American cents, pence, and what have you versions that exist out there. 

Thanks for clarifying.  BTW, the Marvel SA super-hero books were from a single print run that included the cents and a tiny subset of pence versions.  There is no "what you have versions that exist out there" for Marvel's SA super-hero books.  We're not talking about modern books!      

Edited July 16, 2022 by Pantodude

[lou_fine]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:31 PM, djzombi said:

On 7/12/2022 at 1:43 PM, Beastfeast said:

Also, weren't those books HUGE successes as far as specs go?  If you sold back then, you killed it.  If you held, well, you still did ok.  

Over my collecting "career," I've rarely sold books that weren't duplicates.  However, the Valiant madness was an exception.  I sold all the pre-Unity Valiant books I had during the peak of said madness, and made a tidy profit.  A little over a decade later, I replaced them in my collection at, in many cases, below cover price.

Ahhh........you must be referring to the Wizard induced hyped madness time period of the early 90's with both Valiant and Image starting out there. 

I still remember all of the speculative Wizard fanboys who used to wet their pants because they just couldn't wait to get their hands on the latest issue of Wizard to see their Top 10 Hot to Trot List and their latest updated price guide.  Clearly, they were trying to set and lead the spec market on new books upwards as opposed to actually reporting on realized prices in the marketplace.  Especially when they were caught with their undies down around their ankles a few times by listing books at the top of their chart with price points of $20 or $50 when it turned out that the actual books never even made it to the shelves of the LCS's until a few months later due to either missed creator or publishing/printing deadlines.  

Yes, how many of those so-called hot books from that early 90's Wizard induced crazed time period have actually held their value.  How much is that skeleton variant cover for The Adventurers #1 going for in today's marketplace when it was once listed in Wizard for either double digit or triple digit value almost immediately after hitting the shelves.  My guess is probably worth as much or in demand as much as used toilet paper nowadays.  Or like you said, how about the hot Valiant books when I remember that Shadowman 16 was at one time, the super hot book with the introduction of some new character in the Valiant universe even though they ended up printing and selling a ton of this book.  

 

[lou_fine]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:49 AM, Pantodude said:

But someone  (ehem )  pooh-poohed Marvel SA super-hero keys as longer-term investments based on a relative-scarcity argument.  The argument might be intuitively appealing (if you ignore the demand side of things), so I thought it would be worth exploring. 

If you are referring to my post from the other page, YES indeed, I was talking only about the supply side of the equation as I think pretty much everybody in the comic book marketplace knows that the SA Marvel time period is at the top of the charts when it comes to demand.  

 

On 7/16/2022 at 8:49 AM, Pantodude said:

But since we need to distinguish FMV from the appreciation that FMV has undergone, let's look at the appreciation of the top 12 GA keys (as ranked by Overstreet 2019-2020) relative to their top 12 SA Marvel keys from about 2016 to 2022. 

Love the charts and greatly appreciate the time and work which it must have taken you to put these two charts together.  VERY WELL DONE!!! 

[Aman619]

iM NOT ROOTING FOR EITHER GA OR SA to have increased the most over the last 5 years.  So this is just a caveat as to explain some or most of the greater SA price increases compared to GA keys.  Silver Age keys started from a lower price point 5 years ago, while GA were selling at the very top of the entire Comics price ranges. I book like X-Men 1 selling for 10K, or even 50K back then can more easily increase to 100K or 400K as they are still way below the nose bleed pricing of the GA mega keys.  These were at a million, or solid six figures, facing headwinds above related to who these multi millpond dollar buyers would be.  Of course the pandemic era and easy money did help a few newbies over the finish line to invest in a few big ticket comics.  However the pool with 250K and less to spend on HOT movie related character keys that are as solid an investment as one can imagine is far greater.  Bottom line, easier to double in value under 25K than above 1M.  Though some GA keys have done it.   Then there's also the higher number of copies to change hands in SA keys too.  When you get an Action 1 or Tec 27, you tend to not be a flipper to buy your next coveted infatuated bauble...

[Ryan.]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:36 PM, lou_fine said:

How much is that skeleton variant cover for The Adventurers #1 going for in today's marketplace when it was once listed in Wizard for either double digit or triple digit value almost immediately after hitting the shelves.  

Love that cover.

[Filter81]

On 7/14/2022 at 4:02 PM, alexanderjk said:

AND they managed to crowdfund their trip to SDCC. So despite routinely buying and selling five- and six-figure books, they’re pocketing thousands more from “fans.” Wild. 

Danielle/Sammy decided to try something new at this show.  They worked out sponsorships with other businesses, most who won't be at SDCC. They had shirts made up and will be wearing the companies' logos all week in SDCC, will be advertising them on IG & Whatnot, promoting their businesses in San Diego & in some cases selling their products at Comic Con.  Similar to dealers who pay to advertise their banners/logos on the front page of this site, except in most cases Danielle and Sammy took payment in the form of books.  

They are being sponsored by companies.  Nothing was "pocketed from fans". That is just "wild" speculation on your part.

[Filter81]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:49 AM, Pantodude said:

Overall, prices have certainly eased up a bit across the Ages (GA, SA, BA, CA, etc) since the beginning of the year, although it's harder to tell with GA books due to both the paucity of recent data and few data points in general.  And despite overall trends, there are pockets in each Age that outperform.  But someone  (ehem )  pooh-poohed Marvel SA super-hero keys as longer-term investments based on a relative-scarcity argument.  The argument might be intuitively appealing (if you ignore the demand side of things), so I thought it would be worth exploring. 

All the ages have their gems, some less common than others.  The top GA keys tended to have higher FMVs than the top Marvel SA keys (and that is unlikely to change any time soon!).  But since we need to distinguish FMV from the appreciation that FMV has undergone, let's look at the appreciation of the top 12 GA keys (as ranked by Overstreet 2019-2020) relative to their top 12 SA Marvel keys from about 2016 to 2022.  

I didn't want to copy/paste the whole thing but this was a great post!  I prefer GA over SA all day every day because they are so scarce and the covers are so much better, but on average in my experience they have underperformed silver age keys for years now.  Maybe because they don't trade hands as often giving less opportunities for prices to go up from the previous sale?  Or maybe because they started from a point where they were already more expensive?  

[blazingbob]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:20 PM, Filter81 said:

Danielle/Sammy decided to try something new at this show.  They worked out sponsorships with other businesses, most who won't be at SDCC. They had shirts made up and will be wearing the companies' logos all week in SDCC, will be advertising them on IG & Whatnot, promoting their businesses in San Diego & in some cases selling their products at Comic Con.  Similar to dealers who pay to advertise their banners/logos on the front page of this site, except in most cases Danielle and Sammy took payment in the form of books.  

They are being sponsored by companies.  Nothing was "pocketed from fans". That is just "wild" speculation on your part.

 "Similar to dealers who pay to advertise their banners/logos on the front page of this site".

Based on the new fees for those ads they are now referred to as "BOB's"  Bend over Banners.

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by blazingbob

[Beige]

We're comparing 2016/17 to 2022 now?

Why not go back to 1990?

 

Compare 2021 to 2022 and 95% of books have lost 30 - 40%

 

We all know that if you bought 4-5 yrs ago , you have made a heap.

But if you bought last year, you are losing a heap.

 

Slow decline for rest of year into a 2 -3 year stagnation.

Economy, Covid getting worse again, MCU being very,very poor.

When the economy picks up, MUC and DCU make better films and more people get stable employment after this covid wave (less isolating) then prices will head back up.

If you are loaded with $$$ - fill yer boots at the bottom - likely end of next year

 

Absolutely-based-on-nothing-opinion-that-nobody-asked-for 

[Beige]

 

Adam sighting!!

[Beastfeast]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:36 PM, lou_fine said:

Ahhh........you must be referring to the Wizard induced hyped madness time period of the early 90's with both Valiant and Image starting out there. 

I still remember all of the speculative Wizard fanboys who used to wet their pants because they just couldn't wait to get their hands on the latest issue of Wizard to see their Top 10 Hot to Trot List and their latest updated price guide.  Clearly, they were trying to set and lead the spec market on new books upwards as opposed to actually reporting on realized prices in the marketplace.  Especially when they were caught with their undies down around their ankles a few times by listing books at the top of their chart with price points of $20 or $50 when it turned out that the actual books never even made it to the shelves of the LCS's until a few months later due to either missed creator or publishing/printing deadlines.  

Yes, how many of those so-called hot books from that early 90's Wizard induced crazed time period have actually held their value.  How much is that skeleton variant cover for The Adventurers #1 going for in today's marketplace when it was once listed in Wizard for either double digit or triple digit value almost immediately after hitting the shelves.  My guess is probably worth as much or in demand as much as used toilet paper nowadays.  Or like you said, how about the hot Valiant books when I remember that Shadowman 16 was at one time, the super hot book with the introduction of some new character in the Valiant universe even though they ended up printing and selling a ton of this book.  

 

That’s a whole lot of text to say you didn’t sell when you should have. Or again when they popped several years ago. Or now. 

[lou_fine]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:36 PM, Beastfeast said:

That’s a whole lot of text to say you didn’t sell when you should have. Or again when they popped several years ago. Or now. 

To each their own, but from your post it sounds like your mind frame is closer to a Wizard like speculator (i.e. trying to time the market), as opposed to mine's which is definitely that of a long term collector (i.e. spending time in the market).  

Actually, it's rather funny since that whole Wizard like mentality kind of turned me off from the new comic book marketplace and pretty much completed my move into HG GA during that time in the early 90's.  Own only one Image book in my collection with that being a copy of Spawn 1, although I certainly do own most of the pre-Unity Valiant books all brought at cover price or less.  Loved the early Magnus issues as I thought they were a great read along with some of the other early Valiants, but left that market part way through the Deathmate issues as I basically got cover priced out of the new comic book marketplace by that point. 

Figured that spending my money on HTF or higher grade GA would be much safer in terms of being able to get my money back going forward, as opposed to throwing them away on new books being printed with multiple covers and hoarded by countless speculators of the day.  Looking back now and seeing the current marketplace, I am clearly glad that I made that move from the new book market into the vintage collectible GA market.  

[djzombi]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:36 PM, lou_fine said:

Ahhh........you must be referring to the Wizard induced hyped madness time period of the early 90's with both Valiant and Image starting out there. 

 

 

Yup - good times LOL

[MGsimba77]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:48 PM, Beige said:

We're comparing 2016/17 to 2022 now?

Why not go back to 1990?

 

Compare 2021 to 2022 and 95% of books have lost 30 - 40%

 

We all know that if you bought 4-5 yrs ago , you have made a heap.

But if you bought last year, you are losing a heap.

 

Slow decline for rest of year into a 2 -3 year stagnation.

Economy, Covid getting worse again, MCU being very,very poor.

When the economy picks up, MUC and DCU make better films and more people get stable employment after this covid wave (less isolating) then prices will head back up.

If you are loaded with $$$ - fill yer boots at the bottom - likely end of next year

 

Absolutely-based-on-nothing-opinion-that-nobody-asked-for 

Not sure that correlating macro econ or COVID related trends to collectibles ever really works? I mean you had the latter part of the 90's where almost all comics were on a steady downtrend and macro econ was quite good (relatively speaking). You had 2020 where everything cratered and we know what the collectibles market did! 2021 had COVID madness and collectibles didn't bat an eye. Yes the 90s were pre cert but I'm not sure cgc would have made a dramatic difference in 1990 - something, pre x-men, MCU and 2002 spider-man. I might say MCU has a lot more correlation with what  comics do than anything else by a long shot. If you want to ascribe the current downtrend to something, I'd probably look at a natural pullback from insanity and lackluster MCU. 

As far as putting a conceivable timetable on some inflection point without MCU being involved?....maybe when interest rates stop going up or possibly come down would be a guess. That would be way sooner than 2 or 3 years. Or maybe crypto makes a comeback? I just wish all these people packing the malls and spending up a storm all this time see their way to a few comic cons! 

[Beastfeast]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:37 AM, lou_fine said:

To each their own, but from your post it sounds like your mind frame is closer to a Wizard like speculator (i.e. trying to time the market), as opposed to mine's which is definitely that of a long term collector (i.e. spending time in the market).  

Actually, it's rather funny since that whole Wizard like mentality kind of turned me off from the new comic book marketplace and pretty much completed my move into HG GA during that time in the early 90's.  Own only one Image book in my collection with that being a copy of Spawn 1, although I certainly do own most of the pre-Unity Valiant books all brought at cover price or less.  Loved the early Magnus issues as I thought they were a great read along with some of the other early Valiants, but left that market part way through the Deathmate issues as I basically got cover priced out of the new comic book marketplace by that point. 

Figured that spending my money on HTF or higher grade GA would be much safer in terms of being able to get my money back going forward, as opposed to throwing them away on new books being printed with multiple covers and hoarded by countless speculators of the day.  Looking back now and seeing the current marketplace, I am clearly glad that I made that move from the new book market into the vintage collectible GA market.  

  Huh? 

On 7/9/2022 at 1:44 PM, lou_fine said:

And yes, I do remember doing a spec buy in terms of purchasing 5 copies of that Magnus 12 with the Turok first valiant appearance and also the same with that black Solar 10 cover due to all of the hype at the time.  

You said you spec'd on these.  I said if you did, you did fine.  You don't buy a spec book and typically hold onto it for 30 years.  That's not really how it works, typically.  And even still, if you sold today, you'd still do ok considering buying at cover.  

That's rad you're putting your money into GA and SA books.  I mainly do that, too.  Not sure how that changes what you originally said and what I responded to.  

 

 

[MetalPSI]

On 7/17/2022 at 7:19 PM, Beastfeast said:

  Huh? 

You said you spec'd on these.  I said if you did, you did fine.  You don't buy a spec book and typically hold onto it for 30 years.  That's not really how it works, typically.  And even still, if you sold today, you'd still do ok considering buying at cover.  

That's rad you're putting your money into GA and SA books.  I mainly do that, too.  Not sure how that changes what you originally said and what I responded to.  

 

 

I have to know:

Is that your mustache in your avatar?

[Beastfeast]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:25 PM, The Meta said:

I have to know:

Is that your mustache in your avatar?

Ha!  It's not and I don't remember where this picture even came from.  Probably 2010-ish stupid google image search.  

[lou_fine]

On 7/17/2022 at 4:19 PM, Beastfeast said:

On 7/9/2022 at 10:44 AM, lou_fine said:

And yes, I do remember doing a spec buy in terms of purchasing 5 copies of that Magnus 12 with the Turok first valiant appearance and also the same with that black Solar 10 cover due to all of the hype at the time.  

You said you spec'd on these.  I said if you did, you did fine.  You don't buy a spec book and typically hold onto it for 30 years.  That's not really how it works, typically.

Come to think of it, you are 110% correct here as I would definitely make a bad speculator.  Especially when I have absolutely zippo idea where these copies of Magus 12 and Solar 10 would be.  

Probably also not much better as a long term collector, financially speaking that is, as paper gains are pretty much worthless until you actually cash out and fully realize your gains.  In that sense, a copy of Action 1 would have as much "real value" in the hands of a long term collector as a copy of Spawn 1, but I sure definitely know which book I would much rather have sitting in my collection.    

Edited July 18, 2022 by lou_fine

[DC#]

Thought I would do a pulse check based on a random Heritage weekly auction - results below.   If you ever wondered how quickly GPA gets Heritage results up the answer is very fast......so I had to calculate the 90 day average on most of these myself after removing the Heritage sale being evaluated.