Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 41 41

[Gregd]

Well that means the Fear Index is certainly at a high then. In market terms, probably the bottoming (can’t predict the bottom but probably closing in).
 

Btw not too long ago, saw folks saying the stock market was going to go into a depression or at least a horrible plunge. S and P hits a record Friday 🤷🏻. In the end, I think folks should not panic during downturns. Comics will do just fine over time- the heroes of these books are woven into our culture. I don’t think an AF 15 is going to be worthless. There will always be a buyer for key books (and beautiful copies of non-keys). 

[Stefan_W]

On 7/7/2024 at 11:28 AM, alexgross.com said:

what i find interesting is the overall negative view of the future of the market for SA, BA and modern books that has emerged here on the boards in the last few years. perhaps it is the prolonged nature of this market slump that began mid-covid and has not let up, as opposed to the shorter dip that happened after the housing crisis in 2009. but i find more and more people writing here with less confidence that things will ever get back to where they were in 2019 for most of these books. not talking about GA rarities and PCH, but silver and bronze specifically. 

i wonder what would need to happen in the world at large for overall confidence in the market for these era books to return to an upward trajectory. 

Have more people under 30 participate on the boards.

I think the types of fears expressed, along with what people gravitate toward as "safe investments", are presented through the lens of an older segment of the comic-buying market. There was a poll a little while ago asking for people to identify their age category and there are a lot of 50 and 60 somethings here. I cant prove it, but I suspect that "invest in Golden Age books" may not be a prominent with a younger market. Not a representative sample at all, but younger collectors I know started loading up on Star comics, like Care Bears and Muppet Babies, at the same time the older crowd started snapping up pre-code horror and GA treasures. Again, not a representative sample at all, but at this same time middle aged collectors I know were seeking out news stand editions of their favourite titles from the 80s and 90s. 

The market went up and then it went down, and people use their own lens to sort out how to buy what they like while still feeling as though they are protecting their investment. Not everyone has come to the same answers for how to do that. 

[jimjum12]

On 7/7/2024 at 12:41 PM, Stefan_W said:

Have more people under 30 participate on the boards.

I think the types of fears expressed, along with what people gravitate toward as "safe investments", are presented through the lens of an older segment of the comic-buying market. There was a poll a little while ago asking for people to identify their age category and there are a lot of 50 and 60 somethings here. I cant prove it, but I suspect that "invest in Golden Age books" may not be a prominent with a younger market. Not a representative sample at all, but younger collectors I know started loading up on Star comics, like Care Bears and Muppet Babies, at the same time the older crowd started snapping up pre-code horror and GA treasures. Again, not a representative sample at all, but at this same time middle aged collectors I know were seeking out news stand editions of their favourite titles from the 80s and 90s. 

The market went up and then it went down, and people use their own lens to sort out how to buy what they like while still feeling as though they are protecting their investment. Not everyone has come to the same answers for how to do that. 

With collectibles, supply is paramount. Investment in recent material of the last 25 years, just make doesn't good sense, from a resale standpoint. Disregarding the voice of experience when it goes counter to one's emotions, can be disingenuous. Talk to some shop owners if you want an educated overview. A pure fanboy will possibly be the most happy at the moment, but their lessons may strictly lie in the future. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Both Sides Now

Judy Collins

Bows and flows of angel hair
And ice cream castles in the air
And feather canyons everywhere
I've looked at clouds that way
But now they only block the sun
They rain and snow on everyone
So many things I would have done
But clouds got in my way

I've looked at clouds from both sides now
From up and down and still somehow
It's cloud's illusions, I recall
I really don't know clouds at all

Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels
The dizzy dancing way you feel
When every fairy tale comes real
I've looked at love that way
But now it's just another show
You leave 'em laughin' when you go
And if you care, don't let them know
Don't give yourself away

 

Edited July 8 by jimjum12

[Robot Man]

On 7/7/2024 at 9:41 AM, Stefan_W said:

Have more people under 30 participate on the boards.

I think the types of fears expressed, along with what people gravitate toward as "safe investments", are presented through the lens of an older segment of the comic-buying market. There was a poll a little while ago asking for people to identify their age category and there are a lot of 50 and 60 somethings here. I cant prove it, but I suspect that "invest in Golden Age books" may not be a prominent with a younger market. Not a representative sample at all, but younger collectors I know started loading up on Star comics, like Care Bears and Muppet Babies, at the same time the older crowd started snapping up pre-code horror and GA treasures. Again, not a representative sample at all, but at this same time middle aged collectors I know were seeking out news stand editions of their favourite titles from the 80s and 90s. 

The market went up and then it went down, and people use their own lens to sort out how to buy what they like while still feeling as though they are protecting their investment. Not everyone has come to the same answers for how to do that. 

Many of the younger guys start out on the current stuff or stuff from their childhood then, like dope addicts, graduate to the “hard stuff”.

Many finally realize rarity of GA and the “coolness factor” and are attracted like flies to a flame by big numbers. Many don’t have the patience or want to work hard at it to be sucessful and give up when it doesn’t come easily. 

[Stefan_W]

On 7/7/2024 at 1:11 PM, Robot Man said:

Many of the younger guys start out on the current stuff or stuff from their childhood then, like dope addicts, graduate to the “hard stuff”.

Many finally realize rarity of GA and the “coolness factor” and are attracted like flies to a flame by big numbers. Many don’t have the patience or want to work hard at it to be sucessful and give up when it doesn’t come easily. 

 

On 7/7/2024 at 1:09 PM, jimjum12 said:

With collectibles, supply is paramount. Investment in recent material of the last 25 years, just make doesn't good sense, from an investment standpoint. Disregarding the voice of experience when it goes counter to one's emotions, can be disingenuous. Talk to some shop owners if you want an educated overview. A pure fanboy will possibly be the most happy at the moment, but their lessons may strictly lie in the future. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

The examples I used were Star Comics from the 80s, which were published 40 years ago, and news stands from 80s and 90s that were 30-45 years ago. Not saying you guys are sounding old, but.....    

Anyway, I am a part of the 55 year old crowd and yeah it is easy to think back on the 80s and such as being more recent than it actually is. I had an older gentleman at the last show complain to me about how CGC call pre-1975 "Vintage" and I mentioned that those books are a from a half-Century plus ago. My favourite albums that I listened to in high school when they first came out, and never stopped listening to, are celebrating 40 year anniversaries. Stuff from back then (including me) is actually pretty old and is definitely in range for collectability. 

[Ryan.]

On 7/7/2024 at 11:45 AM, Gregd said:

Btw not too long ago, saw folks saying the stock market was going to go into a depression or at least a horrible plunge. S and P hits a record Friday 🤷🏻. 

I had some friends that were so sure that market crash was coming they aggressively sold their stocks to free up capital to buy back in at the bottom that never came.

[MAY1979]

On 7/6/2024 at 8:26 AM, wiparker824 said:

Drinking a random unopened Coke that just appears in front of you no questions asked is the most unbelievable part of this whole commercial.

 

 

Folks teach your Daughters never ever to do that its extremely stupid as a great way to get roof-ied..  Not to mention thoroughly disgusting.

Ad is way too long for TV, must be Theatrical.

100 of these commercials will not impede prices from their OVERALL continuing free-fall, which will last until end of decade.

Edited July 7 by MAR1979

[Telegan]

On 7/7/2024 at 10:28 AM, alexgross.com said:

what i find interesting is the overall negative view of the future of the market for SA, BA and modern books that has emerged here on the boards in the last few years. perhaps it is the prolonged nature of this market slump that began mid-covid and has not let up, as opposed to the shorter dip that happened after the housing crisis in 2009. but i find more and more people writing here with less confidence that things will ever get back to where they were in 2019 for most of these books. not talking about GA rarities and PCH, but silver and bronze specifically. 

i wonder what would need to happen in the world at large for overall confidence in the market for these era books to return to an upward trajectory. 

As has been "proven" recently with that age thread, this forum is mostly middle-aged-to-older people, so I kind of take what's going on here with a grain of salt, or with at least a "well, that's one side of the story" approach.  It's always good to see what's going on on places like Reddit, YouTube, Discord, IG, etc. If you watched the stock market during that 2008 Great Recession, you also noticed everyone thinking the sky was falling, the planet would go into an Ice Age, the stock market was going to crash and take 30 years to come back, etc., so people sold off stocks when they should've been buying.  That recession lasted maybe a couple of years.

The interesting thing I think I've seen in the past, is that outside of major keys, a lot of comic books really did squat in terms of price appreciation over a period of a decade or two before 2017'ish.  For a lot of these books, they never were massive appreciators, so why expect them to return to appreciating when most really never appreciated appreciably, anyway?  Then you have keys that took off through the stratosphere that are returning back to their previously-adhered-to climbs.  There are still books out there that imho are overpriced.

As for SA, BA, etc.  I don't really care if they go back to 2019 pricing because I'll buy them because I want them at either a good price or a steal of a price and because I want that comic book.  I've seen stuff here and there that I've always wanted in a higher grade that I decided I'd pick up now.  If they go down in price further, so be it.  I just know that a couple of years ago getting even a 6.5+ in some of these comics isn't something I would spend money on, but now I can get 9.0/9.2+ for what I'm willing to spend, so I'm good.  There are still quite a few not-necessarily-key SA I'd love to collect and am still waiting and watching.

On 7/7/2024 at 2:44 PM, Ryan. said:

I had some friends that were so sure that market crash was coming they aggressively sold their stocks to free up capital to buy back in at the bottom that never came.

Or as they say in the financial world (though the numbers may be different) : Economists have predicted 7 of the last 4 recessions. (No offense to economists, we know it's all an exaggeration... )

 

Edited July 7 by Telegan

[wiparker824]

On 7/7/2024 at 12:41 PM, Stefan_W said:

Have more people under 30 participate on the boards.

Do people under 30 know what a “message board” is? 

[LordRahl]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:28 AM, alexgross.com said:

what i find interesting is the overall negative view of the future of the market for SA, BA and modern books that has emerged here on the boards in the last few years. perhaps it is the prolonged nature of this market slump that began mid-covid and has not let up, as opposed to the shorter dip that happened after the housing crisis in 2009. but i find more and more people writing here with less confidence that things will ever get back to where they were in 2019 for most of these books. not talking about GA rarities and PCH, but silver and bronze specifically. 

i wonder what would need to happen in the world at large for overall confidence in the market for these era books to return to an upward trajectory. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what you're saying here is that things are below 2019 prices and people here are not confident they will get back to 2019 prices? If so, I'd love to know what Silver Age books in what grade you are talking about that are below 2019 prices. Because nothing that I look at is even AT 2019 prices and nowhere close to being below.

[Gregd]

On 7/7/2024 at 3:44 PM, Ryan. said:

I had some friends that were so sure that market crash was coming they aggressively sold their stocks to free up capital to buy back in at the bottom that never came.

Yep! Long ago I was foolish enough to think I could predict the next crash…. Have had 100% of my retirement in the s and p 500 index since 2010 and I just leave it be. Everytime I was tempted to cash out I found out how wrong I was… and how difficult it would have been to know when to buy in if I done it. 

I’m guessing your friends are in that boat now and losing both the gains and dividends they would have had 😞

[Robot Man]

On 7/7/2024 at 10:53 AM, Stefan_W said:

 

The examples I used were Star Comics from the 80s, which were published 40 years ago, and news stands from 80s and 90s that were 30-45 years ago. Not saying you guys are sounding old, but.....    

Anyway, I am a part of the 55 year old crowd and yeah it is easy to think back on the 80s and such as being more recent than it actually is. I had an older gentleman at the last show complain to me about how CGC call pre-1975 "Vintage" and I mentioned that those books are a from a half-Century plus ago. My favourite albums that I listened to in high school when they first came out, and never stopped listening to, are celebrating 40 year anniversaries. Stuff from back then (including me) is actually pretty old and is definitely in range for collectability. 

Some day all of are going to be “old”. That is if we are lucky.

I am “old” enough to have bought ASM 3 off the rack. Old enough to have bought Flash #1 at one of the earliest SDCCs for $100. Old enough to have seen Hendrix twice. Eat your heart out.

I just don’t get the distain for “old” folks. I never did as a kid. Old folks have taught me a lot when I was smart enough to listen…

[Stefan_W]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:01 PM, Robot Man said:

Some day all of are going to be “old”. That is if we are lucky.

I am “old” enough to have bought ASM 3 off the rack. Old enough to have bought Flash #1 at one of the earliest SDCCs for $100. Old enough to have seen Hendrix twice. Eat your heart out.

I just don’t get the distain for “old” folks. I never did as a kid. Old folks have taught me a lot when I was smart enough to listen…

I did not intend to show any disdain, and my comment was just meant to be light-hearted since I am an old guy myself. Having said that, the condescension in your post toward younger people and how they collect did annoy me. I should have just ignored it rather than replying because that annoyance obviously came through more than I thought it did. My apologies. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 7/7/2024 at 7:32 PM, Stefan_W said:

I did not intend to show any disdain, and my comment was just meant to be light-hearted since I am an old guy myself. Having said that, the condescension in your post toward younger people and how they collect did annoy me. I should have just ignored it rather than replying because that annoyance obviously came through more than I thought it did. My apologies. 

Lol I'm from 1981 neither post really bothered me, it only made me wonder when I will have these feelings but 

[Ryan.]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:40 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Lol I'm from 1981 neither post really bothered me, it only made me wonder when I will have these feelings but 

Back in my day we made sure to get good and outraged at posts about different age groups. Also, turkeys were called walking birds and we wore onions on our belts, as was the style at the time.

[CGC Mike]

On 7/7/2024 at 9:32 PM, Ryan. said:

Back in my day we made sure to get good and outraged at posts about different age groups. Also, turkeys were called walking birds and we wore onions on our belts, as was the style at the time.

Even though you have an older custom title, this should be noted.

[ADAMANTIUM]

Collect how you want and is available to you, as not anyone of older or younger has the same opportunity as any other of the same age group or opposite. 

There are experience points and character, beyond that isn't a learning curve save to do the best you can with what you have and know. 

Edited July 8 by ADAMANTIUM
removing the comma and conjunction.

[Chip Cataldo]

On 7/7/2024 at 9:46 PM, CGC Mike said:

Even though you have an older custom title, this should be noted.

Sometimes, when I dream, I dream about having a custom title.

[Microchip]

On 7/7/2024 at 10:17 AM, Microchip said:

So a coke ad doesn't amount too much.

How about some raw numbers.

 

2 weeks = $10m in sales.

52 weeks = $260m in sales.  (excluding the Clink, conventions, and the bulk of the other forms out there.).   So conservatively we're looking at $500m market.

As a shout out, the conservative $500m annual market is for slabbed books only.

For raw book sales, we only likely have Heritage numbers as a gauge to the potential value of this side of the hobby in annual dollar sales values. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 7/7/2024 at 5:01 PM, Robot Man said:

Old enough to have seen Hendrix twice.

@The Black Hand ®