Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[the blob]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:35 PM, lordbyroncomics said:

Oh yeah, Nazi memorabilia is "all the more interesting" due to the passage of time. I wish weak white guys would just admit they're attracted to that nonsense rather than rationalize it with some sort of historical bent. It's one more example of entitlement and a lack of empathy. Nazis are losers who literally cooked children in ovens; no matter how bad one thinks the Iron Cross looks- Roy Orbison used to wear them onstage, for example- the fact that this imagery might upset people who lost family members in such a staggeringly harrowing way- doesn't mean anything because it's just a historical interest. Sure.

The Iron Cross predated the Nazis by at least 100 years. I will continue to wear hawaiin shirts despite, apparently, them being all the rage among the right wing bugaloo types.

[Bookery]

On 3/2/2023 at 2:43 AM, PopKulture said:

I think a more scholarly position would be to ask what in the world was going on in America in the 1930's?! Why was there even a market for multiple magazines where women are routinely being tortured and imperiled book after book, story after story?? Was there some pervasive psychosis lingering across the land during those bleak Depression years, fueled by the utter and stark destruction of our national naivete or the persistent traumas from the First World War that returning soldiers unwittingly brought back stateside with them? That seems a tad more enlightened than "Oh look, she's somebody's daughter or sister, and she's being slowly exsanguinated, but isn't she painted marvelously?"

To be fair, these books were never particularly mainstream, and in fact were often kept behind the counter.  They were a niche market, and never sold anywhere near the numbers of pulps like Argosy, Blue Book, Adventure, Detective Fiction Weekly, or even the numerous romance pulps.  They were that period's version of today's endless quantities of direct-to-DVD (or direct-to-streaming) slasher films (in which overwhelmingly the victims are also women).

As for the bondage... I'd posit that there are two forms of it.  As with the Conan cover just posted above, there is the kind of bondage that I believe is not so much about torturing a woman, as putting the hero in the macho position of savior.  This is a theme as old as time, and I think many of the adventure-type pulps are clearly in the Knights of the Round Table tradition (in comics, the Justice Society is clearly an updating of this type of tale).  The Lady-in-Distress trope isn't so much about denigrating women as it is about bolstering male ego (especially of the target-audience of teen-age boys struggling with adolescence).  Then there is the bondage found in the shudder pulps, as you point out, in which clearly many of the women are not going to be saved (though in the Spider pulps, the horrific tortures and deaths are often inflicted on whole crowds of both men and women).  And then we are back to the whole horror-genre thing again, which if anything, has reached far more widespread popularity today than it ever could have in the 1930s (it's even got a name now... "torture-porn").  

[CGC Mike]

I'm seeing multiple political posts.  If they continue, the people making them will be banned from this topic at minimum.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/1/2023 at 9:10 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Holy cr@p, that's an awesome cover!

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:14 AM, the blob said:

The Iron Cross predated the Nazis by at least 100 years. I will continue to wear hawaiin shirts despite, apparently, them being all the rage among the right wing bugaloo types.

The Boogie has no leanings.

[the blob]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:51 AM, Bookery said:

It might be interesting to note, if obviously anecdotal, that in my 40 years in the pop-culture business, I have known a handful of folks that collect this sort of material.  In every instance, the person was African American*.  Like I've said more than once, all societies have a tendency to find allure in that which horrifies.

*(Latest example just yesterday... an African-American customer came in looking for vintage editions of the James Bond novels after reading that they were now releasing them in politically-correct versions.  He wanted the unadulterated originals with all the bigotry and crudity intact).

One of our close family friends is an African American woman who collects old time black dolls and doesn't stray away from the really racist ones. For her it is part history.

 

On 3/2/2023 at 9:18 AM, Bookery said:

 

On 3/2/2023 at 9:18 AM, Bookery said:

To be fair, these books were never particularly mainstream, and in fact were often kept behind the counter.  They were a niche market, and never sold anywhere near the numbers of pulps like Argosy, Blue Book, Adventure, Detective Fiction Weekly, or even the numerous romance pulps.  They were that period's version of today's endless quantities of direct-to-DVD (or direct-to-streaming) slasher films (in which overwhelmingly the victims are also women).

As for the bondage... I'd posit that there are two forms of it.  As with the Conan cover just posted above, there is the kind of bondage that I believe is not so much about torturing a woman, as putting the hero in the macho position of savior.  This is a theme as old as time, and I think many of the adventure-type pulps are clearly in the Knights of the Round Table tradition (in comics, the Justice Society is clearly an updating of this type of tale).  The Lady-in-Distress trope isn't so much about denigrating women as it is about bolstering male ego (especially of the target-audience of teen-age boys struggling with adolescence).  Then there is the bondage found in the shudder pulps, as you point out, in which clearly many of the women are not going to be saved (though in the Spider pulps, the horrific tortures and deaths are often inflicted on whole crowds of both men and women).  And then we are back to the whole horror-genre thing again, which if anything, has reached far more widespread popularity today than it ever could have in the 1930s (it's even got a name now... "torture-porn").  

 

The 60s and 70s horror magazines like Web of Horror are worse, they're a blue print for serial killers who want to keep a well stocked collection of body parts in their basement. Agree that the stuff in the 30s and 40s was more about macho man saving the day. The bondage nazi magazines in the 50s and 60s were weird though, I think ultimately isn't the point that in the end the nazis wind up getting killed by the victims or nazi women wind up being with the people who were victimized or whatever? I've never read them, but did read maybe they were popular in Israel because the nazis wind up getting killed usually?

[the blob]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:35 PM, lordbyroncomics said:

 

.Racist Timely covers are a weird historical reminder of what was deemed ok back then and kind of hard to believe they were printed mainstream (because if you look at DC and Dell stuff you really don't see that sort of thing, although I am sure there are exceptions). I used to collect them (budget willing), but yeah, ultimately I decided to sell them off because I stopped feeling comfortable with them in my collection. 

[Bookery]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:26 AM, the blob said:

One of our close family friends is an African American woman who collects old time black dolls and doesn't stray away from the really racist ones. For her it is part history.

 

 

The 60s and 70s horror magazines like Web of Horror are worse, they're a blue print for serial killers who want to keep a well stocked collection of body parts in their basement. Agree that the stuff in the 30s and 40s was more about macho man saving the day. The bondage nazi magazines in the 50s and 60s were weird though, I think ultimately isn't the point that in the end the nazis wind up getting killed by the victims or nazi women wind up being with the people who were victimized or whatever? I've never read them, but did read maybe they were popular in Israel because the nazis wind up getting killed usually?

That's another traditional aspect of the horror genre.  You create a villain so evil, so vile, so disgusting, that there is a cathartic cheer when said villain(s) are finally dispatched.  In fact, one might argue that the horror pulps of the 30s are actually less disturbing than today's horror, because usually those inflicting the torture get their comeuppance.  Beginning in the late '70s, the genre began making heroes of the monsters, wherein the audience cheers the slaughter and laughs when the villain gets away with it all at the end.  I find today's slasher-type films more bothersome than the story-monsters spawned during the Depression.

[g-man]

Link results last night...a few books seemed to go for really bargain prices (full disclosure, i have not looked up recent sales...just from memory)

Hulk #181 cgc 9.2 $8845 (looked to be a sharp copy)

ASM #238 cgc 9.8 newsstand $3200

Cap #1 cgc 7.0 $201K (I thought that would do much better)

DD #1 cgc 9.2 $22K

Few other books did well

Batman #11 cgc 8.5 $37K

Exciting #9 cgc 6.5 $15.4K

FF #1 cgc 8.5 $217K

 

 

[ThothAmon]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:26 AM, the blob said:

One of our close family friends is an African American woman who collects old time black dolls and doesn't stray away from the really racist ones. For her it is part history.

 

 

The 60s and 70s horror magazines like Web of Horror are worse, they're a blue print for serial killers who want to keep a well stocked collection of body parts in their basement. Agree that the stuff in the 30s and 40s was more about macho man saving the day. The bondage nazi magazines in the 50s and 60s were weird though, I think ultimately isn't the point that in the end the nazis wind up getting killed by the victims or nazi women wind up being with the people who were victimized or whatever? I've never read them, but did read maybe they were popular in Israel because the nazis wind up getting killed usually?

Definitely. They were printed for the WW2 servicemen who had kicked Nazi butts. Followed by US servicemen kicking Commie butts or escaping from POW torture. Spoke with Earl Norem once in 2008 or so about this and he expressed embarrassment about painting these types of covers but he said they paid the bills. 

 

[october]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:40 AM, g-man said:

 

Few other books did well

FF #1 cgc 8.5 $217K

 

An 8.5 white sold on the exchange in early 2022 for $350k.

Though I suppose losing less than half "value" from covid highs is actually pretty strong at this point.

 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:06 AM, october said:

An 8.5 white sold on the exchange in early 2022 for $350k.

Though I suppose losing less than half "value" from covid highs is actually pretty strong at this point.

 

Yikes!

[g-man]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:06 AM, october said:

An 8.5 white sold on the exchange in early 2022 for $350k.

Though I suppose losing less than half "value" from covid highs is actually pretty strong at this point.

 

just looked at heritage and a similar copy sold for $228K back in August 22....and in 2021 an 8.5 sold for $132K

[g-man]

last 9 sales on heritage of hulk #181 in 9.2 all went higher than last night's link auction. in 2021, one went for more than double last night's price! 

[Gonzimodo]

On 3/2/2023 at 2:43 AM, PopKulture said:

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and conclude that your ad hominem hyperbole is chiefly an attempt to be light-hearted, but flippantly dismissing an entire practicum of academics overwhelmingly populated by females seeking empowerment and new perspectives on ages-old morays doesn't really serve much to dispel any whiff of misogyny.

I must have missed the part where we started bashing marine biologists...  

 

 

[Bookery]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:34 AM, Gonzimodo said:

I must have missed the part where we started bashing marine biologists...  

 

 

We've covered a lot of ground here.  If only there was a way to summarize the last 2-dozen posts or so... pulpish adventure, current horror themes, sexist portrayals, over-the-top imagery, women-in-peril, marine biologists... hmmmm....

 

 

[WolverineX]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:40 AM, g-man said:

Link results last night...a few books seemed to go for really bargain prices (full disclosure, i have not looked up recent sales...just from memory)

Hulk #181 cgc 9.2 $8845 (looked to be a sharp copy)

ASM #238 cgc 9.8 newsstand $3200

Cap #1 cgc 7.0 $201K (I thought that would do much better)

DD #1 cgc 9.2 $22K

Few other books did well

Batman #11 cgc 8.5 $37K

Exciting #9 cgc 6.5 $15.4K

FF #1 cgc 8.5 $217K

 

 

I would say the FF1 did  poorly compared to prior sales

[g-man]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:58 AM, WolverineX said:

I would say the FF1 did  poorly compared to prior sales

and it was CVA exceptional 

Edited March 2, 2023 by g-man

[WolverineX]

On 3/2/2023 at 12:06 PM, g-man said:

and it was CVA exceptional 

Yes, certainly answers the topic definitively

[Bookery]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:02 PM, the blob said:

My great grandfather wrote a somewhat early science fiction book..the Land of the Changing Sun (1894) (I know Jules Verne was much earlier) ...I wanted to read it, I really did, but had to stop after 10 or 15 pages, it was pretty bad, and he was actually a popular writer back then, this was his first and only attempt at sci fi, so much popular fiction back then was just horrible

 

Some dealers, at least, must think someone still wants to read it.  The first-edition copies being offered at ABE start at $1,000!