Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/27/2023 at 10:56 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

This isn't exclusive to comics. I have a buddy who is a sports card collector - almost exclusively baseball - and this is very much a norm for collectors in that hobby as well. He's collecting Hall-of-Famer rookie cards for example, and he's priced out of high-grade copies of many of the older cards, but in order to complete his collection, he goes after lower-grade cards in order to have the card. If it's someone he really likes, he'll sell other cards in order to upgrade. And he knows that vintage cards continue to maintain their value at most grades, or at least have minimal downturns that should correct themselves over a long hold.

I'm the comic collector you're talking about (except for the sig part, I hate signatures on key books) - I'd rather spend the money to have 3-4 graded key books I really want in a grade that's acceptable to me, rather than chase a really high grade copy of a single book. From an investment standpoint, there's also some validity to this practice. For argument's sake, if you had $1,000 to spend, you could buy 4 $250 books or 1 $1,000 book. You can look at a number of books where the 4 have the potential to outpace the 1 in monetary gains over time, plus you're diversifying your investment. Obviously this is a huge oversimplification, but you can definitely find examples of say, four 7.5 keys having higher percentage increases over time vs one 9.8 at the same investment level.

I don't collect or buy cards, but I do pay attention to that market because comics are the "red headed stepchild" to the sports card market and there are lessons to be learned. There are losses in that market since the 2020-2021 boom that have been massive, but they have been smaller in the vintage/"blue chip" cards, and in some cases, those cards continue to do well - a similar case in comics with gold, silver and in some cases, bronze keys, vs. the "flavor of the month" variants.

Man I sold some of the cards I had, I too I tried to like it again, but after late 80s and early 90s collecting ...oye I'm pretty burnt out.

 

[Jesse-Lee]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:03 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Man I sold some of the cards I had, I too I tried to like it again, but after late 80s and early 90s collecting ...oye I'm pretty burnt out.

 

That market is crazy to me - it's big news when a comic cracks the 7-figure mark, and we all know what they'll be - Action 1, Batman 1, Detective 27... But there are modern Lebron James cards that sell for millions. There were 36 sales of sports cards in 2022 alone that sold for $1-million-plus, and that includes 9 Lebrons, 9 Tom Bradys and some Steph Currys and Michael Jordans, alongside the big-dollar cards everyone thinks of, like Micky Mantle and Honus Wagner.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:25 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

That market is crazy to me - it's big news when a comic cracks the 7-figure mark, and we all know what they'll be - Action 1, Batman 1, Detective 27... But there are modern Lebron James cards that sell for millions. There were 36 sales of sports cards in 2022 alone that sold for $1-million-plus, and that includes 9 Lebrons, 9 Tom Bradys and some Steph Currys and Michael Jordans, alongside the big-dollar cards everyone thinks of, like Micky Mantle and Honus Wagner.

I know it's amaze balls the philosophy if you wanted to get real bent out of shape, it would be easy. Still it's the hope of the hobby. Grain of salt.

[Bookery]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:59 PM, Microchip said:

People are coming from the cinematic universe, they know the stories all have their 'origins' in comic books.  A good number of them want to be a part of that history, nostalgia, and cultural phenom.   That in itself, thanks too the scale of the MCU to date, has decades to play out.

I don't disparage your theory, because at first glance it seems like a reasonable conclusion.  But coming from a broad background of collectibles, I'd say it generally doesn't play out like that.  People who like movies like movies, and mostly don't care about where the source material came from.  Almost everyone on these boards has seen a "Frankenstein" or "Dracula" movie at some time or another.  But how many on here have actually sought out the original novels?  A few, perhaps.  Then take it a step further... how many have sought to own the first editions, or even expensive limited editions of these works because they enjoy the movies?  Even far fewer.  

The majority of motion pictures made are adapted from novels or short stories... yet few viewers are even aware of this, much less desire to read them, or own them as collectibles.  Enjoy John Carpenter's "The Thing"?.  Enough to seek out its original pulp appearance?  Enjoy listening to holiday favorite "White Christmas"?  But does that inspire you to own the original recorded "78" or seek out the first-run sheet music?  How many fans of Tom Cruise's Mission Impossible films do you think go back and order the complete DVD series of the '60s TV show?

Almost everyone in America is a fan of movies of one sort or another... but even within their own medium, only a tiny fraction of the population has any interest in owning original movie posters, lobby cards, or even celebrity autographs.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:56 AM, Bookery said:

I don't disparage your theory, because at first glance it seems like a reasonable conclusion.  But coming from a broad background of collectibles, I'd say it generally doesn't play out like that.  People who like movies like movies, and mostly don't care about where the source material came from.  Almost everyone on these boards has seen a "Frankenstein" or "Dracula" movie at some time or another.  But how many on here have actually sought out the original novels?  A few, perhaps.  Then take it a step further... how many have sought to own the first editions, or even expensive limited editions of these works because they enjoy the movies?  Even far fewer.  

The majority of motion pictures made are adapted from novels or short stories... yet few viewers are even aware of this, much less desire to read them, or own them as collectibles.  Enjoy John Carpenter's "The Thing"?.  Enough to seek out its original pulp appearance?  Enjoy listening to holiday favorite "White Christmas"?  But does that inspire you to own the original recorded "78" or seek out the first-run sheet music?  How many fans of Tom Cruise's Mission Impossible films do you think go back and order the complete DVD series of the '60s TV show?

Almost everyone in America is a fan of movies of one sort or another... but even within their own medium, only a tiny fraction of the population has any interest in owning original movie posters, lobby cards, or even celebrity autographs.

It is amazing how niche it ALL is and to find a collector base, worth farming points out to increase interest. Not only is it like leveling up your skill to find comics, but attribute that to the growing fanfare and it is all I can do to be quiet and just watch. Sounds like it is a bit iffy, and yet people have to spend money on something. How long have certain hobbies grown just by the mindset. Too many hits in familiarity to movies, and I'm sure the burn before reading type movie plots will rend asunder to the bare minimum of what people collect. If left unchecked. It's everyone's personal attitude that comes into question to prolong loving these simple and old ideas. I like scrapping and scraping by as much as the next guy. It is totally a view point, for myself to consider.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[EastEnd1]

On 2/28/2023 at 9:56 AM, Bookery said:

I don't disparage your theory, because at first glance it seems like a reasonable conclusion.  But coming from a broad background of collectibles, I'd say it generally doesn't play out like that.  People who like movies like movies, and mostly don't care about where the source material came from.  Almost everyone on these boards has seen a "Frankenstein" or "Dracula" movie at some time or another.  But how many on here have actually sought out the original novels?  A few, perhaps.  Then take it a step further... how many have sought to own the first editions, or even expensive limited editions of these works because they enjoy the movies?  Even far fewer.  

The majority of motion pictures made are adapted from novels or short stories... yet few viewers are even aware of this, much less desire to read them, or own them as collectibles.  Enjoy John Carpenter's "The Thing"?.  Enough to seek out its original pulp appearance?  Enjoy listening to holiday favorite "White Christmas"?  But does that inspire you to own the original recorded "78" or seek out the first-run sheet music?  How many fans of Tom Cruise's Mission Impossible films do you think go back and order the complete DVD series of the '60s TV show?

Almost everyone in America is a fan of movies of one sort or another... but even within their own medium, only a tiny fraction of the population has any interest in owning original movie posters, lobby cards, or even celebrity autographs.

Sounds like Jim Halperin and his partners should sell Heritage Auctions as soon as possible cause their business is about to freefall! 

Well I actually am a fan of the original "The Thing" and Carpenter's and I do own a copy of the original short story publication, "Who Goes There" which was in a post-pulp sci-fi digest (it's in NM shape to boot ).  I think you're being a little myopic (and selective) with your examples.  It's true that movie posters and lobby cards have GENERALLY pulled back somewhat in recent years, but there's nothing to indicate that it's a permanent pullback.  Original movie props and memorabilia are about as hot as they've ever been.. why are you limiting your view of the sector to just movie posters and lobby cards?  Have 1st edition books declined in price?  I ask this honestly cause I don't know... but when I search the Heritage archives, I do see that most of the highest prices paid for 1st edition Frankensteins and Draculas (your examples) are from the last five years so obviously some group of people are chasing them... possibly some of the same people paying nosebleed prices for original movie posters and lobby cards from those two classic horror films?  There's probably no one still alive that saw Honus Wagner or Ty Cobb play and was old enough to buy a pack of cigarettes to get the original tobacco cards of these players and yet much younger baseball card collectors (a subset of today's pool of baseball/sport fans) chase them for major league (no pun intended) money.  Perhaps there's little interest in "White Christmas" (today), but what do you think an old scribbling on a Liverpool bar napkin from an original Beatle would bring?  People aren't interested in sheet music?  Well they do seem to have a growing appetite for Vinyl.  I could go on and on...

Collectibles, like art and stocks and real estate, have ebbs and flows... some items become more popular and others less popular... sometimes its temporary and other times its permanent.  The key to longevity though is to remain in the public consciousness, as superheros thus far have.  It's called cyclicality and it's normal.  The comic book hobby will not collapse until the superhero itself collapses... absent that there will always be a subset of fans that will gravitate to the original source material, just as there is with music lovers, sports fans, and film-goers.      

[Bookery]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:25 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Well I actually am a fan of the original "The Thing" and Carpenter's and I do own a copy of the original short story publication, "Who Goes There" which was in a post-pulp sci-fi digest (it's in NM shape to boot ). 

Actually, it's in regular pulp format... the August 1938 issue of Astounding Stories.  

[EastEnd1]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:29 PM, Bookery said:

Actually, it's in regular pulp format... the August 1938 issue of Astounding Stories.  

Darn... I have a reprint! 

[F For Fake]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:39 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Darn... I have a reprint! 

There's no shame in being proven wrong by @Bookerywhen it comes to pulps. He wrote the book on them. 

Like...he literally wrote the book.

https://www.budsartbooks.com/product/bookery-s-guide-to-pulps-related-magazines-second-edition/

 

[Bookery]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:39 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Darn... I have a reprint! 

That's okay.  Now you can look forward to tracking down the original (if you desire).  Word of warning... it's not cheap (but not "comic book" expensive either).

[EastEnd1]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:45 PM, F For Fake said:

There's no shame in being proven wrong by @Bookerywhen it comes to pulps. He wrote the book on them. 

Like...he literally wrote the book.

https://www.budsartbooks.com/product/bookery-s-guide-to-pulps-related-magazines-second-edition/

 

I have his book!  No pulp collector should be without it!

[Bookery]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:25 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Sounds like Jim Halperin and his partners should sell Heritage Auctions as soon as possible cause their business is about to freefall! 

I've got bids in on the whole operation! 

(Okay... I admit... they might consider it a low-ball offer...) 

[EastEnd1]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:46 PM, Bookery said:

That's okay.  Now you can look forward to tracking down the original (if you desire).  Word of warning... it's not cheap (but not "comic book" expensive either).

I was actually watching the recent pulp auction at Heritage... prices seemed stronger.  Are you seeing comic collectors migrating to pulps for the covers?

[Bookery]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:58 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I was actually watching the recent pulp auction at Heritage... prices seemed stronger.  Are you seeing comic collectors migrating to pulps for the covers?

Yes.  And, btw, that Aug '38 issue is up for auction on Thursday at Heritage...

https://comics.ha.com/itm/pulps/astounding-science-fiction-group-of-2-street-and-smith-1938-50-condition-average-vg-fn-total-2-items-/a/47152-75025.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Just so you know... the original "Who Goes There?" story appears under Campbell's pseudonym -- Don A. Stuart.

 

[EastEnd1]

On 2/28/2023 at 1:02 PM, Bookery said:

Yes.  And, btw, that Aug '38 issue is up for auction on Thursday at Heritage...

https://comics.ha.com/itm/pulps/astounding-science-fiction-group-of-2-street-and-smith-1938-50-condition-average-vg-fn-total-2-items-/a/47152-75025.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Just so you know... the original "Who Goes There?" story appears under Campbell's pseudonym -- Don A. Stuart.

 

Sweet... and Dianetics too... nice lot.  Thanks for the heads up... it's bookmarked!

[Microchip]

On 3/1/2023 at 1:56 AM, Bookery said:

I don't disparage your theory, because at first glance it seems like a reasonable conclusion.  But coming from a broad background of collectibles, I'd say it generally doesn't play out like that.  People who like movies like movies, and mostly don't care about where the source material came from.  Almost everyone on these boards has seen a "Frankenstein" or "Dracula" movie at some time or another.  But how many on here have actually sought out the original novels?  A few, perhaps.  Then take it a step further... how many have sought to own the first editions, or even expensive limited editions of these works because they enjoy the movies?  Even far fewer.  

The majority of motion pictures made are adapted from novels or short stories... yet few viewers are even aware of this, much less desire to read them, or own them as collectibles.  Enjoy John Carpenter's "The Thing"?.  Enough to seek out its original pulp appearance?  Enjoy listening to holiday favorite "White Christmas"?  But does that inspire you to own the original recorded "78" or seek out the first-run sheet music?  How many fans of Tom Cruise's Mission Impossible films do you think go back and order the complete DVD series of the '60s TV show?

Almost everyone in America is a fan of movies of one sort or another... but even within their own medium, only a tiny fraction of the population has any interest in owning original movie posters, lobby cards, or even celebrity autographs.

I think you lost your way there.  No one is saying 100% of the people walk out of a movie with a desire to go pick up a comic book, and see what they're all about.   It's a fraction of a fraction that fit the collector/enthusiast profile that MIGHT take a look.    Comic Book collecting is an extremely niche hobby.   So it takes only a minuscule change in people's (who fit the profile) to make a huge impact from our view.

Hobby's aren't going away.   In fact there's new ones arriving all the time.   One that surprises me a little, is the fact that Heritage is doing basketball shoe auctions.   Are comic books, still a valid part of the current profile of hobbies out there, in the sense that it's relevant to multiple age groups, and has broad appeal.   I would say yes to both points.

 

[Aman619]

Yeah.  People don’t walk out of a movie and say I think I’ll buy the comic book.  But if they like the comics movies, characters AND ALSO read, listen, are told that buying a comic is a great investment and FUN and accessible (not stuffy Wall Street stuff and safe enough that others are doing it (even thought it might not work out so good). They might pull the trigger. There’s a lot of moving parts at work that compel a new collector to get their feet wet. 

[PopKulture]

On 2/28/2023 at 10:25 AM, EastEnd1 said:

 The comic book hobby will not collapse until the superhero itself collapses... 

Except a clear majority of comics ever published weren’t superhero comics… 

Comics go way beyond the capes for some of us. 

[the blob]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:04 PM, PopKulture said:

Except a clear majority of comics ever published weren’t superhero comics… 

Comics go way beyond the capes for some of us. 

Yeah, but that's what drives collectordom right now and new comic sales

[EastEnd1]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:04 PM, PopKulture said:

Except a clear majority of comics ever published weren’t superhero comics… 

Comics go way beyond the capes for some of us. 

Very true... believe me, other comic genres hold warm places in my heart too, especially PCH which may be my overall favorite.  But unfortunately I fear, if the superhero goes, the hobby will have a very difficult time sustaining itself.  Unlike the other genres which many of us love, the superhero was uniquely born in the comics.  And outside of a few years after WW2, have always been the dominant player in comics.  The "original source material" of superheros are comic books.  We can't say that for the other genres... comics were simply another manner of offering an already widely dispersed category.  Though there are exceptions like Archie or Mad, if the superhero goes (and I mean permanently goes like the singing western cowboy), I don't see those other properties being enough to prop up the hobby.  It will take a long time... you still have to work through a few generations of collectors... but I think the hobby will inevitably deteriorate.