Did we get in trouble? 3 3

[atomised]

17 minutes ago, tth2 said:

I can do it in 2 sentences:

Amazing new OO collection discovered. Angry bitter boardies immediately  all over it.  

thank you, that saved me time! 

[VintageComics]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:22 PM, batman_fan said:

Just saw the Promise collection thread got locked.

Moderation has been extremely tight lately. Threads that wouldn't put a blip on the radar in the past are now getting locked often.

[jimbo_7071]

5 hours ago, tth2 said:

I can do it in 2 sentences:

Amazing new OO collection discovered. Angry bitter boardies immediately  all over it.  

That response is disingenuous at best. Many collectors were justifiably upset about the ridiculously loose grading. Nobody denigrated the books in any way. It would have been an exceptionally nice collection even if it had been graded accurately, but as it stands most of the books appear to be overgraded by 2–4 increments, and collectors cannot give CGC a free pass on something like that—especially when it just so happens that the books are being brought to market by HA, which is a part owner of CGC. (A few collectors who are shills for Heritage and/or CGC might, but most won't.)

Edited May 22, 2021 by jimbo_7071

[entalmighty1]

I hereby volunteer my services to be a shill for anything at any time.  Beware, my integrity isn't cheap.

[jimjum12]

4 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

That response is disingenuous at best. Many collectors were justifiably upset about the ridiculously loose grading. Nobody denigrated the books in any way. It would have been an exceptionally nice collection even if it had been graded accurately, but as it stands most of the books appear to be overgraded by 2–4 increments, and collectors cannot give CGC a free pass on something like that—especially when it just so happens that the books are being brought to market by HA, which is a part owner of CGC. (A few collectors who are shills for Heritage and/or CGC might, but most won't.)

I've always liked you, bro ... you're a passionate and knowledgeable collector, but right now you're being a "drama queen". Every book is NOT overgraded by 4 increments... sure, you'll find plenty of flaws when you blow the scan up to the size of a double car driveway, but that isn't reflective of reality. What I think has happened, during the last two years of hyper-UNDER-grading, you've become spoiled from getting all those 9.4's that were put in 9.0 slabs. ... but that's not fair to the submitter... and you should hear the complaining THEY'VE been doing... and they complain with their wallets by not submitting as much. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[buttock]

4 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

That response is disingenuous at best.

You're right.  He forgot to mention people accusing CGC, Heritage, and Halperin of war crimes.  

[tth2]

4 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

That response is disingenuous at best. Many collectors were justifiably upset about the ridiculously loose grading. Nobody denigrated the books in any way. It would have been an exceptionally nice collection even if it had been graded accurately, but as it stands most of the books appear to be overgraded by 2–4 increments, and collectors cannot give CGC a free pass on something like that—especially when it just so happens that the books are being brought to market by HA, which is a part owner of CGC. (A few collectors who are shills for Heritage and/or CGC might, but most won't.)

Then start a thread about CGC grading and feel free to post books from the Promise collection in there as examples of what you consider to be egregious over-grading rather than k-rapping all over the thread started by Gary to discuss the first major new discovery in ages. 

[Funnybooks]

7 minutes ago, szav said:

I'll give it a try.  New otherworldly looking OO collection comes to market promoted with a heartwarming background story the authenticity and accuracy of which can not be easily verified due to claims of the OOs family wanting privacy.  Prevailing but not unanimous opinion seems to be that the books were loosely graded, and a few particularly examples such as the Sub-Mariner 11 and 23 give weight to this argument. 

Opinions expressed in the chatter range from "grading is subjective, how dare you criticize CGC on their own board, go cry to your momma about it" to "I've called my local congressman and am demanding an immediate investigation"...but on average it comes out to more or less people saying buy the beautiful book not the grade, and there's definitely a great deal of excitement and anticipation about the upcoming auctions.

Well said...don't forget...plenty of

 

 

[Nic8612]

10 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Moderation has been extremely tight lately. Threads that wouldn't put a blip on the radar in the past are now getting locked often.

CGC used a Roy Thomas remarque from one of my books in their email as promotional material, but it was graded by the "other guys" and they cropped the pic to hide that fact. I made a thread pointing it out and they deleted it and banned me for a few days over it. It's getting pretty ridiculous lately

[N e r V]

49 minutes ago, szav said:

I'll give it a try.  New otherworldly looking OO collection comes to market promoted with a heartwarming background story the authenticity and accuracy of which can not be easily verified due to claims of the OOs family wanting privacy.  Prevailing but not unanimous opinion seems to be that the books were loosely graded, and a few particular examples such as the Sub-Mariner 11 and 23 give weight to this argument. 

Opinions expressed in the chatter range from "grading is subjective, how dare you criticize CGC on their own board, go cry to your momma about it" to "I've called my local congressman and am demanding an immediate investigation"...but on average it comes out to more or less people saying buy the beautiful book not the grade, and there's definitely a great deal of excitement and anticipation about the upcoming auctions.

Having been a collector since 1973 and a dealer from 1989 until 2002 one truth exists in grading that applies to all involved.

It’s only a 8.0 when buying (damn let me show you all those defects) but it’s clearly a smoking’ 9.2 when selling (look at those colors, those pages). You think I’m kidding? I’m not. Most  People’s views on their own books are never consistent and none of them will ever admit it. I have to adjust my expectations with grading for every single dealer I use as well as boardies and collectors because of that fact. My biggest reason in liking CGC books actually isn’t as much about the grade but the resto. check which although not bulletproof it certainly helps. With GA people seem to miss accidentally or intentionally that fact and it becomes awkward when it’s pretty obvious.

[entalmighty1]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

Having been a collector since 1973 and a dealer from 1989 until 2002 one truth exists in grading that applies to all involved.

It’s only a 8.0 when buying (damn let me show you all those defects) but it’s clearly a smoking’ 9.2 when selling (look at those colors, those pages). You think I’m kidding? I’m not. Most  People’s views on their own books are never consistent and none of them will ever admit it. I have to adjust my expectations with grading for every single dealer I use as well as boardies and collectors because of that fact. My biggest reason in liking CGC books actually isn’t as much about the grade but the resto. check which although not bulletproof it certainly helps. With GA people seem to miss accidentally or intentionally that fact and it becomes awkward when it’s pretty obvious.

The quickest way I've seen to bump a book from a 6.5 to an 8.0 is to put it in my boxes.

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, atomised said:

15 hours ago, tth2 said:

I can do it in 2 sentences:

Amazing new OO collection discovered. Angry bitter boardies immediately  all over it.  

thank you, that saved me time! 

Unfortunately, he left out a key sentence in the middle which if it did not occur, that last sentence would not have shown up at all and we would have been left with only the first sentence all by itself.  

The key missing sentence to tie the above 2 sentences together being this:  The quality of the grading by CGC on some of these books was not commensurate with the superb high quality of the collection itself, and as a result, has sadly besmirch the overall reputation of the Promise Collection as a whole due to several examples of egregiously terrible grading by CGC and all seeming to lean one way.  

The only saving grace here is that only a small fraction of the collection has been graded to date so far.  This hopefully means that CGC can still redeem itself by bringing the quality of the grading up to the level that this historic pedigree collection so fully deserves, although this will certainly take time and a lot of accurately graded books because first impressions are always the one that tends to stand out and last the longest.    

Edited May 22, 2021 by lou_fine

[Aman619]

15 hours ago, tth2 said:

I can do it in 2 sentences:

Amazing new OO collection discovered. Angry bitter boardies immediately  all over it.  

Post Of The Year!  nailed it in near Haiku precision!

[Aman619]

40 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Unfortunately, he left out a key sentence in the middle which if it did not occur, that last sentence would not have shown up at all and we would have been left with only the first sentence all by itself.  

The key missing sentence to tie the above 2 sentences together being this:  The quality of the grading by CGC on some of these books was not commensurate with the superb high quality of the collection itself, and as a result, has sadly besmirch the overall reputation of the Promise Collection as a whole due to several examples of egregiously terrible grading by CGC and all seeming to lean one way.  

The only saving grace here is that only a small fraction of the collection has been graded to date so far.  This hopefully means that CGC can still redeem itself by bringing the quality of the grading up to the level that this historic pedigree collection so fully deserves, although this will certainly take time and a lot of accurately graded books because first impressions are always the one that tends to stand out and last the longest.    

He didn't leav that part out.  its covered in sentence 2.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Aman619
Forgot the emoji!

[jimbo_7071]

6 hours ago, jimjum12 said:

I've always liked you, bro ... you're a passionate and knowledgeable collector, but right now you're being a "drama queen". Every book is NOT overgraded by 4 increments... sure, you'll find plenty of flaws when you blow the scan up to the size of a double car driveway, but that isn't reflective of reality. What I think has happened, during the last two years of hyper-UNDER-grading, you've become spoiled from getting all those 9.4's that were put in 9.0 slabs. ... but that's not fair to the submitter... and you should hear the complaining THEY'VE been doing... and they complain with their wallets by not submitting as much. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I didn't say they were all overgraded by 4 increments I said 2–4, and I stand by that. Every 9.6 I've looked at looked like an 8.5—9.2 to me. I tried to find a high-grade book that. was within one increment, and I couldn't. (By the way, I've done very little buying over the last two years; I think I've bought about six slabbed books in that period, and only one of those was slabbed recently enough to have the page quality on the white sticker, so I haven't been influenced by any recent tight grading.)

Edited May 22, 2021 by jimbo_7071

[VintageComics]

5 hours ago, N e r V said:

People’s views on their own books are never consistent and none of them will ever admit it.

Not everyone falls into that category.

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

The only saving grace here is that only a small fraction of the collection has been graded to date so far.  This hopefully means that CGC can still redeem itself by bringing the quality of the grading up to the level that this historic pedigree collection so fully deserves, although this will certainly take time and a lot of accurately graded books because first impressions are always the one that tends to stand out and last the longest.

The graders likely do get wind of conversations on the site and it's not a stretch to think that they may factor it into their adjustments in the grading room.

There was talk on the boards about 5 months ago that CGC was very tight. They seemed to loosen up a hair (at least on my own submissions - I did think they were a  bit tight for a while) and the combination of being slammed with submissions from the new collection and the hype currently in the hobby along with the complaints may have caused them to loosen up a bit.

Speaking to another high volume dealer, it seems CGC has tightened up recently. We'll see what the coming weeks bring.

I think I'm fairly consistent with my grading, but then I only mostly submit high grade bronze and silver so I don't have to factor as many variables into my grading as someone who runs the gamur from low to high grade and all eras. .

[N e r V]

7 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Not everyone falls into that category.

The graders likely do get wind of conversations on the site and it's not a stretch to think that they may factor it into their adjustments in the grading room.

There was talk on the boards about 5 months ago that CGC was very tight. They seemed to loosen up a hair (at least on my own submissions - I did think they were a  bit tight for a while) and the combination of being slammed with submissions from the new collection and the hype currently in the hobby along with the complaints may have caused them to loosen up a bit.

Speaking to another high volume dealer, it seems CGC has tightened up recently. We'll see what the coming weeks bring.

I think I'm fairly consistent with my grading, but then I only mostly submit high grade bronze and silver so I don't have to factor as many variables into my grading as someone who runs the gamur from low to high grade and all eras. .

Yes, a few are definitely honest with themselves on grading. 
 

If the graders are paying attention here then that’s a positive not a negative in my opinion as long loosen up doesn’t equal loose grading because to tight or to loose are both bad roads to follow…

[buttock]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Unfortunately, he left out a key sentence in the middle

No, he just knows how to say something in less than 7 paragraphs. 

[adamstrange]

7 hours ago, N e r V said:

Most  People’s views on their own books are never consistent and none of them will ever admit it.

I grade consistently in my favor whether I'm buying or selling. 

[lou_fine]

On 5/21/2021 at 9:06 PM, tth2 said:

I can do it in 2 sentences:

Amazing new OO collection discovered.  Angry bitter boardies CGC graders immediately  all over it.  

 

10 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Unfortunately, he left out a key sentence in the middle

 

9 hours ago, Aman619 said:

He didn't leav that part out.  its covered in sentence 2.

 

Sorry, my bad as I can now see it clearly.