Robin Comes Out 2 2

[stynxno]

It would have been easier, I think, for DC just to make Robin gay. Bi-visibility is still really low in pop-culture even though the vast vast majority of the LGBTQ+ community (especially millennials and gen-z) identify as bi. There’s an opportunity to do this faithfully and in a way that honors the bi-community.  

[Mutie Fan]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:02 PM, kav said:

Yes those were entertaining.  You can add societal change to fiction but the main focus has to be to entertain.  Or no one will read it.

Um. Have you ever read One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich?

That is not a fun read or entertaining by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a powerful book. 

It wasn't published because it was fun, it wasn't published because it was entertaining, it was published because it was important. 

[grendelbo]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:58 PM, Mutie Fan said:

Some of the greatest works of fiction in literature have been intended to bring about societal change. 

Let's look at the earliest literature in the language we're all typing in now - English and the story of Beowulf.

While originally a pagan story, the author who wrote it in Old English went through a lot of work ascribing much of Beowulf's actions to early Christian theology. Likely he did it to effect societal change, especially in beliefs. The precedent is there.

It's cool and all but I like Grendel ripping vikings apart, his mother and the old dragon at the end of the story. Very entertaining.

[djzombi]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:05 PM, kav said:

In fiction everything that happens has to either advance the plot or advance the character.  You cannot just plop something down to make a 'statement'.  

I think his point is that we don't need a huge summer company-wide crossover revolving around Tim's orientation. Just as it was with Northstar, maybe it just means seeing who he's dating once in a while. Tim is more than his sexuality. We can still have the same Tim stories. They will just have this added nuance in the background or subplot. 

[kav]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:07 PM, Mutie Fan said:

That is not a fun read or entertaining by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a powerful book. 

 

In my view this type of fiction is a fail.  A physics textbook is pretty powerful but that doesnt mean its great writing.

[Hudson]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:48 PM, Mutie Fan said:

If all of the "pandering" stories are flops with no upside, they why do publishers keep doing it? If they don't make money on it, if it does not bring in new readers and it pisses fans off and they still do it, maybe they do it because they feel that having more minority, women and LGBTQ characters in comics is a better representation of our overall society and just the right thing to do. 

I will say that not everything is about making the most money (as I once believed companies were in business to do).  If this was the case then why are there so many more “ R “ rated movies than say PG 13, even though PG 13 movies on average take in a lot more money.  
 

if I were a movie company, I don’t think I would ever make an R rated movie.   It just does not seem to make as much good business sense as other rated movies.  
 

Just my thought.   Perhaps off topic.  If so, I apologize. 

[Terry JSA]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:03 PM, Mutie Fan said:

 I haven't read a modern comic book in 15 years, so I have no idea who you are talking about. Give me a little leeway with this, but where exactly is it supposed to go? Someones sexuality doesn't have to be a plot point. 

Alan Scott (Green Lantern) being gay really isn’t a surprise since his Earth-2 counterpart was during the New 52. They recently made him gay in DC canon and only explored his love life in a one-off story. Other than that, nothing else happened as far as I know. 

[Mutie Fan]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:12 PM, kav said:

In my view this type of fiction is a fail.  A physics textbook is pretty powerful but that doesnt mean its great writing.

I'm not sure I would qualify a text book as literature, but ok. 

Does it fail because you are not entertained, or because it's not immediately profitable?

It's a very well written book. It's about life and death in the gulags of the Soviet Union under Stalin. So not a light and fun topic. 

[Mutie Fan]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:16 PM, Terry_JSA said:

Alan Scott (Green Lantern) being gay really isn’t a surprise since his Earth-2 counterpart was during the New 52. They recently made him gay in DC canon and only explored his love life in a one-off story. Other than that, nothing else happened as far as I know. 

Does it need to?

[kav]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:14 PM, Hudson said:

I will say that not everything is about making the most money (as I once believed companies were in business to do).  If this was the case then why are there so many more “ R “ rated movies than say PG 13, even though PG 13 movies on average take in a lot more money.  
 

if I were a movie company, I don’t think I would ever make an R rated movie.   It just does not seem to make as much good business sense as other rated movies.  
 

Just my thought.   Perhaps off topic.  If so, I apologize. 

Many R rated films break the 200 million mark-and are typically cheaper to make that high grossing PG films like avengers titanic etc.  Its a cost benefit deal.

[kav]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:16 PM, Mutie Fan said:

I'm not sure I would qualify a text book as literature, but ok. 

Does it fail because you are not entertained, or because it's not immediately profitable?

It's a very well written book. It's about life and death in the gulags of the Soviet Union under Stalin. So not a light and fun topic. 

If it is not entertaining as I think you are saying, then the only reason to keep turning the pages is to learn something-thus the parallel to a physics text.

[Terry JSA]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:18 PM, Mutie Fan said:

Does it need to?

No.. but overall what I’m trying to say is why make a character a certain way and do little to nothing with the character development. 

[kav]

There are only 2 reasons to read-to be entertained or to learn something.  Sometimes you can learn while being entertained.
Comics are solidly in the field of entertaining except for comics about how crackers are made or something.

Edited August 11, 2021 by kav

[grendelbo]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:27 PM, kav said:

Comics are solidly in the field of entertaining except for comics about how crackers are made or something.

[Coverless 9.8]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:27 PM, kav said:

There are only 2 reasons to read-to be entertained or to learn something.  Sometimes you can learn while being entertained.
Comics are solidly in the field of entertaining except for comics about how crackers are made or something.

I always wondered about those Keebler elves!  

[kav]

I have met people who are proud to say they have never read a book in their life-not even in school.  What a puny Universe they inhabit.

[Mutie Fan]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:32 PM, kav said:

I have met people who are proud to say they have never read a book in their life-not even in school.  What a puny Universe they inhabit.

I was just thinking something similar about people who compare literature that doesn't give them a laugh to a physics text book. 

[grendelbo]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:30 PM, Coverless 9.8 said:

I always wondered about those Keebler elves!  

[kav]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:33 PM, Mutie Fan said:

I was just thinking something similar about people who compare literature that doesn't give them a laugh to a physics text book. 

I never mentioned anything about laughing.  Pls try to pay attention if you want to fire zingers.

[WolverineX]

On 8/10/2021 at 6:31 PM, grendelbo said:

KANG!

Hush,  Kang is even more forward thinking and identifes as demisexual.