All Clear! Really? 5 5

[Galen130]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:21 AM, Buzzetta said:

Maybe we can get back together in 2023... 

2022 is not looking so good.

 

I have my doubts….

[oakman29]

On 11/16/2021 at 9:15 PM, lou_fine said:

 

Do these guys at CGC have more than 1 mailing distribution list, as I am sure that I received more than 3 emails per month for their frigging signings. 

It seems much more like 3 emails PER WEEK asking if you want to turn in books for their money grabbing no name signings.      

So if they are having 3 signings a month I would doubt they are having problems with materials such as encapsulation products,  or employees working.  They simply became inundated with too many people sending in books. Which is their business.  If I were an owner of a company, any company I would look at my progress and change my business model to support that progress.  After all this banter of ours I think they didnt plan for growth of such Caliber. I also think that the people to blame here are the the people in charge who in their infinite wisdom thought that customers are not important enough to care about turn around times . Now they are trying to backtrack, and when that happens your books are being rushed through the process, and getting ruined because they are rushing to get things done hence  the QC issues . I know when I rush through my day I make more mistakes than if I spent time on each customer.  That's my 2 cents, but I'm pretty sure I'm on target with my assumption. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by oakman29

[Galen130]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:33 AM, oakman29 said:

So if they are having 3 signings a month I would doubt they are having problems with materials such as encapsulation products,  or employees working.  They simply became inundated with too many people sending in books. Which is their business.  If I were an owner of a company, any company I would look at my progress and change my business model to support that progress.  After all this banter of ours I think they didnt plan for growth of such Caliber. I also think that the people to blame here are the the people in charge who in their infinite wisdom thought that customers are not important enough to care about turn around times . Now they are trying to backtrack, and when that happens your books are being rushed through the process, and getting ruined because they are rushing to get things done hence  the QA issues . I know when I rush through my day I make more mistakes than if I spent time on each customer.  That's my 2 cents, but I'm pretty sure I'm on target with my assumption. 

I agree with the material aspect.  The 20 slabs I sent back...only twenty this year...were damaged by CGC.  I sent them back for reholder...this will decide if they actually care.  The ME reholders had nothing to do with materials. 

[Gaard]

There might be a link between hiring all these new employees and all the QC problems we've been seeing. Is inept a bad word?

[oakman29]

On 11/17/2021 at 1:58 AM, Gaard said:

There might be a link between hiring all these new employees and all the QC problems we've been seeing. Is inept a bad word?

Or training process needs to be done with more detail

[Galen130]

On 11/17/2021 at 3:06 AM, oakman29 said:

Or training process needs to be done with more detail

Oh my...you're making sense!!! 

[Gaard]

re: training

True.

 

Also, I think I read where CGC employees aren't allowed to be in the buying/selling comic business, but I have to believe that some comic knowledge would be required ... to at least understand that these funny books should be handled with care.

[Buzzetta]

As I’ve said before it’s the encapsulation room.  Storms had mentioned that we should not expect them to handle every book with the white glove treatment in receiving and the queueing process and he is right.

However it’s quite telling when you have the graders assigning a book a grade of 9.8 and the book comes back as damaged.  
 

CGC has two choices
Admit that they damaged a 9.8 book and pay out the maximum that the submitter / owner covered the book under.

Admit that their graders made a mistake to begin with.

Either one is not a good look for the company.  

 

[Buzzetta]

Actually, 

 

Part of me thinks I should roll the dice here. I should submit 10 books that have a shot of a 9.8 and have them covered as if they would indeed come out as a 9.8.  If they grade out at a 9.8 and arrive damaged with folded covers in the holder CGC can let their insurance cover 10 x 9.8 copies of a $2,000 book. 
 

Pay me.  Don’t try and fix them and let them come back in a 9.6.  
 

Pay me.  After all, please correct me if I am wrong. They have insurance for these matters.  They should use it.  Maybe the insurance company will put pressure on them to address these issues. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Buzzetta

[innocuous]

I have no submissions, so no stake here. But, I would not be surprised if there were a class action lawsuit. There was likely a lot of money lost, both in terms fo damaged books and lost opportunity to sell due to not making TAT commitments.

[blazingbob]

There is a big problem with the current process based on lack of transparency.  

1).  The guy who opens the box and the pre-grader.  If damage has occurred in this part of the process that should be communicated to the customer immediately.  If CGC has to send some pictures then by all means hire a few more bodies to do that.  God knows you charge enough as it is.  This greatly reduces/eliminates the "CGC damaged my book".   If a customer sends in books poorly packed that result in damage to the submission that should be communicated.  Eliminate the potential problem down the road at the source. Back it up with pictures.  NOT WORDS.

2).  The longer the book is in CGC hands the greater the risk of handling issues along the "route of grading".  At any point in the process if something happens CGC should suck it up and alert the customer.  Procrastinating or hoping the customer doesn't notice just creates more problems down the road.  This seems to be the current model of operation.  

3).  Stop admitting that there is a Quality assurance process or prove that it exists.  The guy popping that book into the holder and plastic bag is not admiring the book and going "Wow this a definitely a 9.8".   Matt Nelson is not checking out every express/standard for accurate grading. 

4). Stop using the "New grading guy/woman" as an excuse.  If the "New grading guy/woman" is overgrading books maybe you need to extend his/her review of the books that they are grading.  If they are under grading because they are afraid to be "wrong" then you have a "culture problem".    

5).  Stop relying on the customer base for your grading standards.  After 20 years of being in business you should know how to grade a comic.  Unless some new technology has come along to improve the grading standards the CGC sponsored grading contests,  the yearly San Diego Dealer grading contests just show me that CGC cannot adopt a grading standard.  And frankly when you don't publish anything you have to call your "buddies" or hope that everyone is happy with your new "tweaks".    

6).  IF YOU CAN BUMP UP BOOKS BASED ON MARKET VALUE YOU BETTER START PAYING MARKET VALUE FOR DAMAGED BOOKS.  I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO NEGOTIATE MY CREDIT.  IT IS AMAZING HOW FAST YOU KNOW THE MARKET WHEN YOU WANT MONEY BUT YET ARGUE ABOUT THAT SAME VALUE WHEN YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR SOMETHING YOU DAMAGED.   

Edited November 17, 2021 by blazingbob

[D84]

On 11/17/2021 at 9:02 AM, blazingbob said:

There is a big problem with the current process based on lack of transparency.  

1).  The guy who opens the box and the pre-grader.  If damage has occurred in this part of the process that should be communicated to the customer immediately.  If CGC has to send some pictures then by all means hire a few more bodies to do that.  God knows you charge enough as it is.  This greatly reduces/eliminates the "CGC damaged my book".   If a customer sends in books poorly packed that result in damage to the submission that should be communicated.  Eliminate the potential problem down the road at the source. Back it up with pictures.  NOT WORDS.

2).  The longer the book is in CGC hands the greater the risk of handling issues along the "route of grading".  At any point in the process if something happens CGC should suck it up and alert the customer.  Procrastinating or hoping the customer doesn't notice just creates more problems down the road.  This seems to be the current model of operation.  

3).  Stop admitting that there is a Quality assurance process or prove that it exists.  The guy popping that book into the holder and plastic bag is not admiring the book and going "Wow this a definitely a 9.8".   Matt Nelson is not checking out every express/standard for accurate grading. 

4). Stop using the "New grading guy/woman" as an excuse.  If the "New grading guy/woman" is overgrading books maybe you need to extend his/her review of the books that they are grading.  If they are under grading because they are afraid to be "wrong" then you have a "culture problem".    

5).  Stop relying on the customer base for your grading standards.  After 20 years of being in business you should know how to grade a comic.  Unless some new technology has come along to improve the grading standards the CGC sponsored grading contests,  the yearly San Diego Dealer grading contests just show me that CGC cannot adopt a grading standard.  And frankly when you don't publish anything you have to call your "buddies" or hope that everyone is happy with your new "tweaks".    

6).  IF YOU CAN BUMP UP BOOKS BASED ON MARKET VALUE YOU BETTER START PAYING MARKET VALUE FOR DAMAGED BOOKS.  I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO NEGOTIATE MY CREDIT.  IT IS AMAZING HOW FAST YOU KNOW THE MARKET WHEN YOU WANT MONEY BUT YET ARGUE ABOUT THAT SAME VALUE WHEN YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR SOMETHING YOU DAMAGED.   

Alex, I'll take things CGC will never fix for $500.

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 11/17/2021 at 8:18 AM, D84 said:

Alex, I'll take things CGC will never fix for $500.

Daily Double!

[LudaToke]

On 11/17/2021 at 10:02 AM, blazingbob said:

There is a big problem with the current process based on lack of transparency.  

1).  The guy who opens the box and the pre-grader.  If damage has occurred in this part of the process that should be communicated to the customer immediately.  If CGC has to send some pictures then by all means hire a few more bodies to do that.  God knows you charge enough as it is.  This greatly reduces/eliminates the "CGC damaged my book".   If a customer sends in books poorly packed that result in damage to the submission that should be communicated.  Eliminate the potential problem down the road at the source. Back it up with pictures.  NOT WORDS.

2).  The longer the book is in CGC hands the greater the risk of handling issues along the "route of grading".  At any point in the process if something happens CGC should suck it up and alert the customer.  Procrastinating or hoping the customer doesn't notice just creates more problems down the road.  This seems to be the current model of operation.  

3).  Stop admitting that there is a Quality assurance process or prove that it exists.  The guy popping that book into the holder and plastic bag is not admiring the book and going "Wow this a definitely a 9.8".   Matt Nelson is not checking out every express/standard for accurate grading. 

4). Stop using the "New grading guy/woman" as an excuse.  If the "New grading guy/woman" is overgrading books maybe you need to extend his/her review of the books that they are grading.  If they are under grading because they are afraid to be "wrong" then you have a "culture problem".    

5).  Stop relying on the customer base for your grading standards.  After 20 years of being in business you should know how to grade a comic.  Unless some new technology has come along to improve the grading standards the CGC sponsored grading contests,  the yearly San Diego Dealer grading contests just show me that CGC cannot adopt a grading standard.  And frankly when you don't publish anything you have to call your "buddies" or hope that everyone is happy with your new "tweaks".    

6).  IF YOU CAN BUMP UP BOOKS BASED ON MARKET VALUE YOU BETTER START PAYING MARKET VALUE FOR DAMAGED BOOKS.  I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO NEGOTIATE MY CREDIT.  IT IS AMAZING HOW FAST YOU KNOW THE MARKET WHEN YOU WANT MONEY BUT YET ARGUE ABOUT THAT SAME VALUE WHEN YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR SOMETHING YOU DAMAGED.   

I am relatively new to the grading and slab game but has anyone out there tried to use technology to grade comics?

I worked for a pavement company that had high tech vans with laser scanners and lidar that would photograph/measure the road as we drove over it.  The images would then be run through software after being collected and all of the damage (location and type) would be shown on the images and on reports.   

In theory, couldn't the same technology be applied to grading comics which would then eliminate the pesky humans who are slow and prone to error?  You could grade thousands of comics a day with this type of setup.

[MetalPSI]

There is AI implementation going into grading, last I've heard

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:02 PM, LudaToke said:

I am relatively new to the grading and slab game but has anyone out there tried to use technology to grade comics?

It's complicated. The only use that I can imagine being useful is for pre-screening specific high or low grades.

[JazzMan]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:02 AM, LudaToke said:

I am relatively new to the grading and slab game but has anyone out there tried to use technology to grade comics?

I worked for a pavement company that had high tech vans with laser scanners and lidar that would photograph/measure the road as we drove over it.  The images would then be run through software after being collected and all of the damage (location and type) would be shown on the images and on reports.   

In theory, couldn't the same technology be applied to grading comics which would then eliminate the pesky humans who are slow and prone to error?  You could grade thousands of comics a day with this type of setup.

40 year old virgins are much cheaper than LIDAR.

[blazingbob]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:02 PM, LudaToke said:

I am relatively new to the grading and slab game but has anyone out there tried to use technology to grade comics?

I worked for a pavement company that had high tech vans with laser scanners and lidar that would photograph/measure the road as we drove over it.  The images would then be run through software after being collected and all of the damage (location and type) would be shown on the images and on reports.   

In theory, couldn't the same technology be applied to grading comics which would then eliminate the pesky humans who are slow and prone to error?  You could grade thousands of comics a day with this type of setup.

If I thought CGC had a strong IT department I would say yes I think that they could use technology.  

Anything that is pre-identified would have to be confirmed but it definitely saves on the "discovery" aspect of grading.

Bob

[F For Fake]

On 11/16/2021 at 10:52 AM, oakman29 said:

Personally, I would rather just keep on buying encapsulated books instead of waiting for them to arrive at 11 months later, and with quality control issues.

This is where I'm at. I was never really a slab buyer. I mostly collect raw, and every couple of years I'd send in a stack of raws to get graded. I've given up on that now, and am just buying slabs straight up. Just not worth the wait right now, or the worry of what the books will look like when they get home.

[Fisionbomb]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:02 PM, LudaToke said:

I am relatively new to the grading and slab game but has anyone out there tried to use technology to grade comics?

I worked for a pavement company that had high tech vans with laser scanners and lidar that would photograph/measure the road as we drove over it.  The images would then be run through software after being collected and all of the damage (location and type) would be shown on the images and on reports.   

In theory, couldn't the same technology be applied to grading comics which would then eliminate the pesky humans who are slow and prone to error?  You could grade thousands of comics a day with this type of setup.

For front/back covers only, theoretically "easy". But for all pages, detecting double covers, incorrect interiors, etc, etc... A LOT more complex. And really unlikely to ever happen.

I agree with theCapra:

On 11/17/2021 at 2:10 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

It's complicated. The only use that I can imagine being useful is for pre-screening specific high or low grades.