THE BATMAN spoilers thread 2 2

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:10 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You're wrong.

I'm not. You continuily take a hardline approach to an opinion, at times to excess. Not that I am judging you. It's your 'thing'.

Again, not that you had to be overwhelmed with joy for The Batman. But it was clear going into this you were going to have an underwhelming time.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:13 AM, Bosco685 said:

I'm not. You continuily take a hardline approach to an opinion, at times to excess. Not that I am judging you. It's your 'thing'.

I am flat-out telling you that you're wrong. There is no bias to detect here.

I didn't come in here comparing Pattinson's performance to anyone else's. I'm judging it based on The Batman. When he was in the suit and beating up bad guys, he was good. If he didn't have many lines, maybe the monotone voice and static face would've worked to perfection. As it is, his rendition of Batman has no personality.

To accuse me of bias is quite the BS here.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Seems like my expectations were entirely realistic, considering the outcome. I gave The Batman an opportunity to exceed, and it did not.

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:15 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I am flat-out telling you that you're wrong. There is no bias to detect here.

I didn't come in here comparing Pattinson's performance to anyone else's. I'm judging it based on The Batman. When he was in the suit and beating up bad guys, he was good. If he didn't have many lines, maybe the monotone voice and static face would've worked to perfection. As it is, his rendition of Batman has no personality.

To accuse me of bias is quite the BS here.

Uh-huh. No pattern at all to your displeasure with this film, including repeatedly noting how this is probably not going to work for you?

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:17 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Seems like my expectations were entirely realistic, considering the outcome. I gave The Batman an opportunity to exceed, and it did not.

I rest my case!

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:18 AM, Bosco685 said:

Uh-huh. No pattern at all to your displeasure with this film, including repeatedly noting how this is probably not going to work for you?

What's the bias? You implied that it has something to do with the DCEU, which is completely irrelevant to my criticisms.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:18 AM, Bosco685 said:

I rest my case!

Expected an average movie, and got an average movie. Your case is dismissed if you think that bias is a factor.

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:21 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Expected an average movie, and got an average movie. Your case is dismissed if you think that bias is a factor.

[eastriver400]

On 3/6/2022 at 9:40 PM, D84 said:

Oh good, Batman evolved while thousands died in the flooding of Gotham.

My hero...

The Riddler won. Batman lost. I can deal with that except that it seemed to have no effect on him. Same blank stare like through the whole damn movie.

It isn’t that Black and White. The Riddler certainly didn’t think he won in his cell at Arkham. Quite the opposite that prompts the Joker to "console" him. 
Riddler proposed a partnership with Batman after telling Batman he was inspired by him to target the corrupt. Batman declined. Again Riddler doesn’t win. 
 

If there must be a winner, it’s Batman through evolving. In the early scenes he cares less about the victims and more about beating the criminals to near death, “vengeance”. By the end he is holding the torch and saving the people of Gotham, “hope”.
 

I love that this movie doesn’t spoon feed anything to the audience.  The Joker didn’t either. Elevating the CBM.  

Edited March 7, 2022 by eastriver31400

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:20 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

What's the bias? You implied that it has something to do with the DCEU, which is completely irrelevant to my criticisms.

But seriously, I think we set ourselves up for disappointment either when we build up a movie in advance to be the greatest EVER or talking it down in advance leading to going into the movie wanting to justify that disappointment.

Whatever your rationale, you didn't have a great time. You had an okay time. I just think some of your points have reasonable counter-claims why they are not justified. Like with Pattinson not getting super-buff as at this stage Batman feels he just needs to be a street brawler. Beat the criminals down until they beg for mercy and hopefully change their way. That's all about outlasting the other person - not being most muscular. So he took on the form of a light boxer.

Someone that could take a punch to the gut or ribs and keep on fighting. And especially backed up by body armor and padding throughout his suit.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:19 AM, Bosco685 said:

But seriously, I think we set ourselves up for disappointment either when we build up a movie in advance to be the greatest EVER or talking it down in advance leading to going into the movie wanting to justify that disappointment.

Whatever your rationale, you didn't have a great time. You had an okay time. I just think some of your points have reasonable counter-claims why they are not justified. Like with Pattinson not getting super-buff as at this stage Batman feels he just needs to be a street brawler. Beat the criminals down until they beg for mercy and hopefully change their way. That's all about outlasting the other person - not being most muscular. So he took on the form of a light boxer.

Someone that could take a punch to the gut or ribs and keep on fighting. And especially backed up by body armor and padding throughout his suit.

He doesn't have to be Batfleck, but working out more than once/week to put effort into looking like Batman would've been appreciated. TBH there could have been no shirtless scene and it would be a non-criticism, because the suit made him look fine.

I expected the movie to be mediocre, went in open-minded, and it failed to deliver anything more than what was anticipated. I don't go to movies to validate preconceptions.

I didn't choose to have Jim Gordon grumble all of his lines like Batman, or give Bruce Wayne no personality, or have 9 shots of a ridiculously overlong motorcycle ride. The people who produced the movie did, and it deserves the criticism that it attracts.

[theCapraAegagrus]

This is the most accurate rating for The Batman: Will not buy the DVD, but would watch it on cable television.

[William-James88]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:32 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I didn't choose to have Jim Gordon grumble all of his lines like Batman, or give Bruce Wayne no personality, or have 9 shots of a ridiculously overlong motorcycle ride. The people who produced the movie did, and it deserves the criticism that it attracts.

They do deserve that criticism. But I don't think Robert Pattison or Jeffrey Wright do. We know they are good actors, but this was a director driven movie and they went with what was asked of them. I get the vision, they wanted that same narration we get in comics like the Long Halloween, which is rather one note and the characters (while fun) are simply part of the dark tapestry unfolding before us. I will admit, that did make me laugh at times, unintentionally, since the dialogue and delivery was like Lego Batman live action, but then again comics are fun and there is fun to be had with an overly dark Batman and Gotham. 

I just think there is a difference between successfully delivering a vision which you may not argee with and fumbling that vision.

Similar to people's opinions on Man of Steel. It was a new take, and some people did not agree with it, but was it well done or poorly rendered? I think it was well done. I still have a tough time with Cavill's "Krypton had its chance" line which goes against what the film shows his father's intention, but that's the writing, not Cavill's fault. Now that I think of it, I have lots of issues with lines in this film, which go against character. But I won't blame the actors.  Not saying you are doing that, just jumping from what you are writing in terms of who deserves criticism. 

[D84]

On 3/7/2022 at 5:47 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

 

• It basically feels like Se7en is Matt Reeves' favorite movie. It feels so damn similar that I'm not sure whether it helps, or hurts, by being so similar.

 

Except Se7en had tension, The Batman had boredom.

Edited March 7, 2022 by D84

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:45 AM, William-James88 said:

They do deserve that criticism. But I don't think Robert Pattison or Jeffrey Wright do. We know they are good actors, but this was a director driven movie and they went with what was asked of them. I get the vision, they wanted that same narration we get in comics like the Long Halloween, which is rather one note and the characters (while fun) are simply part of the dark tapestry unfolding before us. I will admit, that did make me laugh at times, unintentionally, since the dialogue and delivery was like Lego Batman live action, but then again comics are fun and there is fun to be had with an overly dark Batman and Gotham. 

I just think there is a difference between successfully delivering a vision which you may not argee with and fumbling that vision.

Similar to people's opinions on Man of Steel. It was a new take, and some people did not agree with it, but was it well done or poorly rendered? I think it was well done. I still have a tough time with Cavill's "Krypton had its chance" line which goes against what the film shows his father's intention, but that's the writing, not Cavill's fault. Now that I think of it, I have lots of issues with lines in this film, which go against character. But I won't blame the actors.  Not saying you are doing that, just jumping from what you are writing in terms of who deserves criticism. 

Sure they do, they're the ones performing the roles.

I don't know why anyone would want a 1-note Batman or Gordon. It's boring. Luckily the action was very well done, along with other aspects of the story, because the persona of Batman and Bruce Wayne wasn't compelling.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:49 AM, D84 said:

Except Se7en had tension, The Batman had boredom.

The Batman had tension, it just happened to involve a stale Batman and a trashy Catwoman. Se7en works differently because Pitt's and Freeman's characters are more than one-dimensional.

Oh, also, the idea that Year Two Batman has to wait there for Catwoman to save him is f^&*ing laughable. My lord, what an awful decision to put on the screen.

Edited March 7, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[theCapraAegagrus]

The SFX and audio was mostly great. I thought that the music was off during the car chase scene, it just didn't feel right to me. I also don't like Nirvana at all, so playing the same song all movie was boring. Visually not much to complain about. Not much VFX to criticize. I thought that copying Se7en by having it rain all of the time was kind of annoying, but not a big deal. Copying John Doe's notebooks from Se7en is, again, one of those things that I think hurts if you've seen the other movie. Copying the Joker solo videos from The Dark Knight was also poor taste, IMO. I thought that the social media stuff was stupid, though I understand that they wanted it to connect to the endgame.

People who haven't seen Se7en probably like it more than those of us who are cultured, since its their first exposure to the same style and substance.

[William-James88]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:34 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

This is the most accurate rating for The Batman: Will not buy the DVD, but would watch it on cable television.

Hopefully there are no commercials since that will make it one loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong film.

On 3/7/2022 at 6:47 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I didn't really care for the cowl one way or another before seeing the movie, but the design sucks. Same goes for the Bat-symbol, and his 'gauntlets'. Other than that, the cape is really cool, and the rest of the suit design is also really cool. There just happens to be some 'bad' to go along with the generally 'cool' aesthetic.

I know, dammit, they were so close. I'll even go as far that I like the texture of the cowl, I like how it is seperate from the rest of the neck, to give that idea of a mask Bruce can hold and stare at ala Year Zero. But the aethetic with the seams clashed with the badass nature of the body armour. We can see where the aesthetics come from in the comics, but one of those aesthetics is and elseworlds comic from the 1800s, so yeah that doesn't work well with the rest of the suit. They could have improved the gauntlets too, though I did like how they added to the functionality of the suit, having some kind of pneumatic system for the grappling hook. Could have looked better though, like in the Arkham games.

 

Moving on, this film has brought about lots of talks and comparisons with the Christian Bale films. I remember that while I did like them, I never felt I got enough Batman in them. There are aspects and scenes I always found off, even though I watched them a ton of times and think they are very entertaining. I don't think this film is better, I just like that it offers a different side and different kind of story. I don't think any film will ever live up to me reading the Long Halloween or other Batman classics. I think that's the big difference between Marvel and DC for me. DC has such great comic stories that work so perfectly for the medium and they are written to perfection (I know, huge bias, this is just my opinion) while Marvel doesn't. So a live action take with limited time to tell a story just won't work as well, or give me as much to enjoy. With Marvel, their event stories can be improved, as well as the writing (usually very outstretched), so I end up finding the live action movies like Infinity War even better than the comics that inspired it. That will definitely change with Kraven, since that is one hell of a well written character in the comics, we'll see.

Basically, I don't think a Batman film will ever satisfy me as much as the comics but they don't need to since I still have the comics. This film though was the most satisfying one so far, even though it may not be better than others, if that makes sense.

[D84]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:53 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The Batman had tension, it just happened to involve a stale Batman and a trashy Catwoman. Se7en works differently because Pitt's and Freeman's characters are more than one-dimensional.

For me, poorly executed tension = boredom.

[William-James88]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:53 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

1. The Batman had tension, it just happened to involve a stale Batman and a trashy Catwoman. Se7en works differently because Pitt's and Freeman's characters are more than one-dimensional.

2. Oh, also, the idea that Year Two Batman has to wait there for Catwoman to save him is f^&*ing laughable. My lord, what an awful decision to put on the screen.

(seperated to better comment)

1. Yeah it had tension. You wrote about that interrogation scene and I agree with you that it's the best part of the film. It's where I felt the most tension in the film.

2. Ok that scene is off, I think they were going for different things all at once. It comes after we see Batman being the most badass he's been in the entire film, looking like a scene in the arkham games and using the shadows/mist to his advantage. We see how he can coordinate an attack and think on his feet. And then that scene comes in and is just so weird because the guy is taking his sweet time to load a gun. Everything tells us that Batman could take him out no problem. But he doesn't, to the point where it looked like he was accepting his fate and thought this was time to end his crusade. The film did deal with that before, showing he was wrong and the death of Batman might not be a bad thing. And then an outside force tells him that he must go on, his fight is not done, he can still do good. I am certain that's what was trying to be conveyed but it just didn't fit with the rest of the scene.