Does Expertise/Experience no longer matter to be a dealer? 8 8

[shadroch]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:50 AM, Kramerica said:

I don't believe so. But my hope is that it serves as a warning to all who ponder reading all 12 pages of this nonsense. 

Can you recommend 12 pages of better nonsense? 

[kav]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:36 PM, oakman29 said:

You know what I love about you Bob. You always give a straight and honest answer.  You are as honest as the day is long. 

plus he's more honest in the summer cause the days are longer.

[jsilverjanet]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:53 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

This thread could use your old avatar 

just sayin

[kav]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:09 PM, oakman29 said:

Here I'll make things easier for you then. PM me your mailing address and I'll give you one in 9.8ish raw to read. Would that make you happy? All this carp over a common modern? 

Justin can confirm he will do this.

[kav]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:36 PM, oakman29 said:

Hunt? I can throw a stone at 20 9.8's for nearly zero money, c'mon man!

Kraven the Hunter could track this baby in no time.

[kav]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:42 PM, Krydel4 said:

As I said it was not a whinge over $12 it was about the attitude and setup. If he had the right attitude and had a conversation with me then I probably would just purchased his book anyway to help him out. I was the only one at his table at the time and most people were walking past him cause his setup was unwelcoming. It wasn't about the money. Cheers.

Attitude goes both ways-you could have laughed and said "ok, its only $12".

[thehumantorch]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:27 AM, wardevil0 said:

This thread has been an amazing experience of pre-conceived notions and goalpost-shifting.  

Dealers have an obligation to negotiate with customers just as much as the OP has an obligation to hear and consider this discussion.  The title of the thread and initial post say it all: OP had an unpleasant experience with one dealer at a show and goes on to make sweeping generalizations about the entire industry while dismissing commentary with the forum equivalent of a hand wave and occasional hyperbolic counterpoint.

Eleven pages in and I still don't understand why OP even offered a "ballpark" GPA 9.6 price on what OP considered a 9.2 in a 9.6 case just so OP can crack it out and read a story that is readily available in HC, TPB, digital, etc.  Whenever anyone has questioned this, OP's been nothing but dismissive.

GPA is a record of past sale prices, not a mandate of future sale prices. It's really no different from Overstreet in that regard, just updated more frequently.  If people only sell based on GPA prices, then why do GPA prices change so often?  New high GPA prices are set all the time; maybe this guy hopes his will be the one.  Nothing wrong with that, invisible hand of the marketplace will sort it out.  If this guy's prices are so unreasonable he can't make sales then he won't be at future shows.  

Why is there a slab premium, and who should eat the cost of the slabbing process?  Obviously again the rest of the marketplace has decided that.  People will pay for the opinion of a disinterested third party (appraisals are common -- and sometimes required -- to sell real estate, businesses, fine art, etc) and people will pay more for the ability to carry that opinion forward (via the sealed slab).  OP suggests the dealers should just eat this as a cost of doing business, but still admits to attempting to negotiate a slab-premium price on a book that's readily available for less than $10.

I'm not a dealer, but I do sell a few things here and there to support my far-greater buying habits.  I often ask for discounts when buying, but it's totally situation dependent in ways too varied to try to detail.  Likewise, I'm open to offers on items I'm selling, but usually only within a 10% window or so.  

OP tries to play "gotcha" with scenarios based on either selling a key or a whole collection at precisely GPA value, but refuses to consider outside factors.  Dealers can't pay full retail for their inventory, because dealing is their job and they do it to make a profit.  Dealers have to pay for the cost of the table or booth at the show, rent and utilities for their store, and also the time they spend dealing comics instead of other wage-earning activities.  How else would the dealers have the $15k in-hand to offer for your collection worth $50k in GPA?

 

TL;DR version: OP is RIGHT and SMRT and everyone else are dumbheads and bullies who plot and scheme against the virtuous.

 

I like the cut of your jib, assuming you have a jib.

[Kramerica]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:29 PM, shadroch said:

Can you recommend 12 pages of better nonsense? 

Absolutely. Any book writted by Rob Liefeld. At least you'll laugh. And if that doesn't put a spring in your step or a stirring in your loins I have a TV Guide from 1979.

[oakman29]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:47 PM, Kramerica said:

Absolutely. Any book writted by Rob Liefeld. At least you'll laugh. And if that doesn't put a spring in your step or a stirring in your loins I have a TV Guide from 1979.

Anything's better than this pile of monkey dung. 🤣

[kav]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:08 PM, Krydel4 said:

Most of the posters think I was going to egregiously over pay for a common book at $92 anyway. And then some are giving me $#!+ over trying to negotiate a lower price for said book. And some of them are the same posters. It's all quite hilarious.

Take a step back man.  You're now saying $12 is an egregious sum....

[oakman29]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:33 PM, kav said:

Justin can confirm he will do this.

I gave that kid Justin an Avengers 4 cgc 3.5, then he turned around and sold it . What a bastich.😖

[kav]

I mean, here is where we're at-CGC and dealer thought book was a 9.6.  You however thought it was a 9.2.  They should just discard their expertise because some random guy disagrees with their grading and go down $12.
Therefore, there is no longer any dealer expertise at cons.
I mean if you roll that around surely you can see why people are being critical, right?
 

[kav]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:58 PM, oakman29 said:

I gave that kid Justin an Avengers 4 cgc 3.5, then he turned around and sold it . What a bastich.😖

no good deed goes unpummeled.

PLUS later he said "why would I do that?" when someone mentioned selling a book someone gifted him-

[ExNihilo]

I'm late to the party, but that was a wild 12 pages...

On 4/16/2022 at 1:29 PM, Krydel4 said:

The slab didn't matter to me as I crack, read and Mylar all my slabbed purchases (that go directly into the Black Hole that is my collection). He was trying to sell the "9.6 Slab" and not the book inside. I think that's where my problem is with it. Like I said the experience was like purchasing a stock and not a collectible that's supposed to bring joy.

So seller had a 9.6 that you thought was a 9.0-9.2 so you offered a price at the perceived grade?  So if you perceived the book to be a 9.8 even though it was in a 9.6 slab, you'd offer a premium?  Because surely you should be paying the book grade and not the slab grade?

On 4/16/2022 at 8:06 PM, Krydel4 said:

Marvels 1. I have a 9.8 that I display because it's the closest I'll get to having an original Alex Ross piece. It's the only book I've ever left in a slab. He priced it at $92 (GPA Sale was in 2021) plus tax. Last 3 Sales were at the time were $53, $60, $35 (2022). I offered $80. I've never actually read the series. I've got issues 2,3,4 and I want to read the whole thing when I've assembled the series. No spoilers please.

The first few pages I thought to myself, what book are we going on about?  Must be juicy.  Only for the aforementioned book to be a dollar bin book.  I literally bought the full set a few years back for a $1/book.  And if your plan is to de-slab it, why not just buy a raw copy for a fraction of the price?

On 4/18/2022 at 12:41 PM, Krydel4 said:

Why should a slab premium exist? It should be all about the book, right? If you are a dealer are you saying CGC grades better than you and if so are you seceding your right to have an opinion on a grade to them? Should I not trust your opinion on a grade of a raw book if I go to buy a book from you and I should disregard however many years of experience you've had in the business because you're not CGC? 

On 4/18/2022 at 7:31 PM, Krydel4 said:

It's the dealers prerogative to pay the money to get a book slabbed. I am perfectly happy to buy unslabbed books. Collectors were perfectly happy to buy unslabbed books for decades before CGC. Dealers were perfectly happy to sell unslabbed books for decades before CGC. If a dealer wishes to send a book to CGC then the cost is on them not me. If a book has a FMV of $30 and grading/fees/pressing costs $60 and the dealer prices it $110 what exactly am I paying for? More than 50% of the purchase price is for a piece of plastic that makes it impossible to actually enjoy the books intended purpose of conveying a story in 30 pages. CGC is on the right track with selling invisible comics cause just owning the slab seems to be endgame now. It's mind-boggling that a premium is given to something that restricts your ability to use the item for its intended purpose, when it should be the other way around. 

Why shouldn't a slab premium exist?  Someone paid for shipping and grading and that in turns results in higher value when something is assigned a "certified" number by one of the top two grading companies.  If you want an ASM#300 in NM you can buy a 9.8 for like $3k, or you can buy a raw for like $1000.  Are you seriously suggesting that the premium of inferred by the slab and grade should be paid by the seller and not passed on to the buyer?  Are you really saying that 9.8 ASM#300 is a $1000 book because you didn't ask for it to be slabbed and only care about the raw value of the book?  Because that's how that statement reads.

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:58 PM, oakman29 said:

I gave that kid Justin an Avengers 4 cgc 3.5, then he turned around and sold it . What a bastich.😖

I'll be your huckleberry. 

 

[kav]

I almost think if you had just said "hey will ya take $12 less?" he would have gone sure.  Instead of starting with "This grade is wrong-see this this and this-"
"Your grade is wrong" is probably the worst negotiating strategy of all time.

Edited April 20, 2022 by kav

[kav]

I mean "You're wrong" is probably the thing people hate to hear most, and you're starting off with that.  Typical response to that is "Go away".

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:30 PM, jsilverjanet said:

This thread could use your old avatar 

just sayin

Couldn’t find it....

[Kramerica]

[Ken Aldred]

On 4/20/2022 at 12:12 AM, kav said:

there are always people who will disagree with CGC grade especially when they are buying but I dont think you can ask him to come down in price for a graded book just because you disagree with the grade.  He did nothing wrong.

The first dealer I bought a slab from on eBay, circa 2006, stated that it should always be borne in mind that CGC's grading is subjective, and there may be certain aspects of the book's presentation that you might disagree with.  Whether CGC or yourself personally, there's never going to be a persistent, universal consensus across the board.  

Again, conflicting opinions, subjectivity; nothing new.