Does Expertise/Experience no longer matter to be a dealer? 8 8

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 11:25 AM, 1Cool said:

You think the dealer was a little cold when he didn't drop the price or give you a counter offer?  Try to explain to a collector why his books are not worth his $50K asking price when it's only worth $15K at best?  Things typically get icy when you offer $10K Making offers on books is every buyers prerogative but expecting a perky counter offer from the seller is asking a bit much especially at a busy con.  I wasn't there to hear the sellers reaction but him saying the prices are set in stone (a printed out price list is a good sign he usually won't come down much) isn't really a crime either.    

So if I have a hot book that the last 5 GPA sales are escalating...$400, $425, $450, $475, $500. And I bring it to you and say my price is $500. You will buy it from me for $500? No offer or negotiation? And conversely I bring that same book and the last 5 GPA sales are descending $500, $475, $450, $425, $400. I say I want $500. Will you still but it from me for $500 as that is a GPA price that the book sold for? No offer or negotiation? And if you still will I would definitely sell to you.

[Prince Namor]

On 4/18/2022 at 2:54 PM, Krydel4 said:

So if I have a hot book that the last 5 GPA sales are escalating...$400, $425, $450, $475, $500. And I bring it to you and say my price is $500. You will buy it from me for $500? No offer or negotiation? And conversely I bring that same book and the last 5 GPA sales are descending $500, $475, $450, $425, $400. I say I want $500. Will you still but it from me for $500 as that is a GPA price that the book sold for? No offer or negotiation? And if you still will I would definitely sell to you.

He's only going buy it from you if its at a price HE is comfortable with. You're only going to sell it to him if its at a price YOU are comfortable with.

GPA is TOOL. It is not the be all end all of what the price of something should be.

[Prince Namor]

And really... maybe that dealer just thought - "Seriously? You're going to start the show off on trying to squeeze a 15% discount on a $92 book? Get lost."

Might've just been the principle of it. 

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 11:58 AM, Prince Namor said:

He's only going buy it from you if its at a price HE is comfortable with. You're only going to sell it to him if its at a price YOU are comfortable with.

GPA is TOOL. It is not the be all end all of what the price of something should be.

Exactly my point. I chose to use the tool to come up with an offer I thought was fair. He thought that GPA was the be all and end all of what the price should be. End of interaction and I went elsewhere.

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:02 PM, Prince Namor said:

And really... maybe that dealer just thought - "Seriously? You're going to start the show off on trying to squeeze a 15% discount on a $92 book? Get lost."

Might've just been the principle of it. 

Most of the posters think I was going to egregiously over pay for a common book at $92 anyway. And then some are giving me $#!+ over trying to negotiate a lower price for said book. And some of them are the same posters. It's all quite hilarious.

[chrisco37]

He lost a sale and you learned a valuable lesson.  Sounds like you're the winner here.  

[chrisco37]

On 4/18/2022 at 3:08 PM, Krydel4 said:

Most of the posters think I was going to egregiously over pay for a common book at $92 anyway. And then some are giving me $#!+ over trying to negotiate a lower price for said book. And some of them are the same posters. It's all quite hilarious.

What's hilarious is that you are egregiously overpaying for a common book.  Again, why pay a slab premium if you're just going to crack it out?  I don't think you need to be concerned with resto-check on Marvels 1.  

Buy it from a $5 box and be done with it.  

Or, as I suggested, buy the trade for $20 and read the entire series.  What are you going to miss by doing that?  An add for NBA Jam or F-Zero for Super NES?  

How many books in the series do you have already?  Slabbed 9.8's right?  How many do you have to finish?  How much have you already overpaid to read it?  

[1Cool]

On 4/18/2022 at 2:54 PM, Krydel4 said:

So if I have a hot book that the last 5 GPA sales are escalating...$400, $425, $450, $475, $500. And I bring it to you and say my price is $500. You will buy it from me for $500? No offer or negotiation? And conversely I bring that same book and the last 5 GPA sales are descending $500, $475, $450, $425, $400. I say I want $500. Will you still but it from me for $500 as that is a GPA price that the book sold for? No offer or negotiation? And if you still will I would definitely sell to you.

You are more then in the right to say you will sell the hot book for most recent GPA and I am more then in the right for offering $400 for what ever reason.  We can negotiate a price or you can stick to your guns and we don't make a deal.  I know some have bashed you for making the offer on such a small amount but I'm cool with you asking for a discount.  You seem to be pissed that he didn't come down and he was kind of cold when it came to discussing prices rather then interact with you.  I think you are overracting to his lack of a counteroffer and his not debating CGC grading.  Him not countering your offer is not a sign of a bad dealer any more than you you should be seen as a bad buyer for making an offer.  

[COI]

On 4/18/2022 at 3:05 PM, Krydel4 said:

Exactly my point. I chose to use the tool to come up with an offer I thought was fair. He thought that GPA was the be all and end all of what the price should be. End of interaction and I went elsewhere.

Did he say that? As 86 different people already pointed out, there are a myriad of possible reasons why he might have refused your offer. You made ONE offer on ONE book. 

He could just as easily say that about you, since you based what you thought was fair off of GPA. The uncharitable interpretation of what happened could easily go both ways.

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, 1Cool said:

You are more then in the right to say you will sell the hot book for most recent GPA and I am more then in the right for offering $400 for what ever reason.  We can negotiate a price or you can stick to your guns and we don't make a deal.  I know some have bashed you for making the offer on such a small amount but I'm cool with you asking for a discount.  You seem to be pissed that he didn't come down and he was kind of cold when it came to discussing prices rather then interact with you.  I think you are overracting to his lack of a counteroffer and his not debating CGC grading.  Him not countering your offer is not a sign of a bad dealer any more than you you should be seen as a bad buyer for making an offer.  

Cheers for your response. I am in agreement with you. It was to my original point the manner in which the (non) transaction was carried out and his general apathy towards the whole situation. Also I didn't debate CGCs grading with him I merely pointed out the flaws in the book. I never gave my opinion on what I thought the grade was and I still made an offer based off of what 9.6s had sold for from GPA (and it was higher that the last 3 sales). I don't wish for Cons to become rows upon rows of spartan tables with a fixed price list and boxes of books you can't even see with no care about what your selling other than getting its fixed price. I would like to think the hobby is still more than that for dealers and buyers but maybe I'm wrong.

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:13 PM, chrisco37 said:

What's hilarious is that you are egregiously overpaying for a common book.  Again, why pay a slab premium if you're just going to crack it out?  I don't think you need to be concerned with resto-check on Marvels 1.  

Buy it from a $5 box and be done with it.  

Or, as I suggested, buy the trade for $20 and read the entire series.  What are you going to miss by doing that?  An add for NBA Jam or F-Zero for Super NES?  

How many books in the series do you have already?  Slabbed 9.8's right?  How many do you have to finish?  How much have you already overpaid to read it?  

Why should a slab premium exist? It should be all about the book, right? If you are a dealer are you saying CGC grades better than you and if so are you seceding your right to have an opinion on a grade to them? Should I not trust your opinion on a grade of a raw book if I go to buy a book from you and I should disregard however many years of experience you've had in the business because you're not CGC? 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Krydel4
Clarity

[1Cool]

On 4/18/2022 at 3:33 PM, Krydel4 said:

Cheers for your response. I am in agreement with you. It was to my original point the manner in which the (non) transaction was carried out and his general apathy towards the whole situation. Also I didn't debate CGCs grading with him I merely pointed out the flaws in the book. I never gave my opinion on what I thought the grade was and I still made an offer based off of what 9.6s had sold for from GPA (and it was higher that the last 3 sales). I don't wish for Cons to become rows upon rows of spartan tables with a fixed price list and boxes of books you can't even see with no care about what your selling other than getting its fixed price. I would like to think the hobby is still more than that for dealers and buyers but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think many here would debate with you that comics have become much more a commodity compared to 10 - 20 years ago.  Most here would applaud your trying to buy the book rather then buying the slab.  You seem to have hit a nerve in terms of your negotiation tactics (and your dislike for the dealers response) but in general I don't think you are far off minded then a lot of other people on the boards in terms of how the hobby has changed over the last 10 years.

[F For Fake]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:52 PM, DocHoppus182 said:

This is loosely related to the topic.  It drives me crazy when people want a discount but don’t want to make an offer.  A seller has a book at 1k, buyer comes up to the table and asks what the seller’s best price is.  Uh, the sellers best price is 1k!  Don’t just ask what the lowest they can go is.  Be an adult and make an offer of a specific dollar amount.  I’m sick and tired of these Johnny come lately, self-proclaimed comic wheeler dealers that sold one copy of New Mutants 98 once and think they’re gods gift to commerce.  

This goes double for eBay sales. I can't say how many times I get messages of "What is the LEAST you'll take for this book?" Why on earth would I tell you the least I'll take for it, right off the bat? Make an offer. If I like it, I'll take it. If I think we're close but not quite there, I'll counter. If you're way too low, I'll decline. If you badger me about it, I'll block you.

It's negotiation. I didn't just come up with my asking price out of thin air. I considered condition, rarity, current market value, past sales, how easy it would be to find another copy, how much I have in the book, etc before I price it. I put effort into pricing the book. If you don't like the price, the absolute minimum you can do is make an offer, instead of just ask ME to tell YOU what my lowest price would be. I have a price. It's there on the book. Should I turn it around and ask "So what's the MOST you'd paid for the book?" Maybe I'll try that...

[Ryan.]

On 4/18/2022 at 3:33 PM, Krydel4 said:

I merely pointed out the flaws in the book.

This is a blazing red flag for those who have a lot of experience selling to different personalities of buyers.

[F For Fake]

Although it has been an amusing dogpile on OP (and I hope they're not discouraged from posting in the future by the response to their thread. Ask a question around here, you're going to get an honest answer...and lots of them) I think they did have a basic underlying point about how there is an influx of new sellers who are treating books as indistinct chits, just slabs of plastic to be bought and sold with no real appreciation for what those chits represent.

 I understand that point of view and agree that it is sad. The market of the last couple of years has definitely expanded the pool of folks who are just here to make a quick buck, and couldn't care less about comics as a whole. That's definitely true. I can't say if it's true or not of this particular seller, but it is happening a lot. And that can be a bummer, for sure. But at the end of the day this is all transactional, it's about people buying and selling things for money. I DO think that it's more fun when there is a shared appreciation of the medium between buyer and seller, when you get the sense that you're buying something cool from someone who cares about what they're selling, and you're all part of this wacky hobby of comic collecting. I truly do get that, and I think that aspect of OP's post has been neglected. But, of course, we can't expect it to always be like that, nor hold such sellers in contempt simply because they're just there to make money. It is what it is. I'm glad OP found another dealer they enjoyed buying from.

As for Marvels, carp in a hat, I just sold a set for like $10 this weekend, if I'd seen this thread you coulda just HAD them!

[Ryan.]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:37 PM, F For Fake said:

Although it has been an amusing dogpile on OP (and I hope they're not discouraged from posting in the future by the response to their thread. Ask a question around here, you're going to get an honest answer...and lots of them) I think they did have a basic underlying point about how there is an influx of new sellers who are treating books as indistinct chits, just slabs of plastic to be bought and sold with no real appreciation for what those chits represent.

 I understand that point of view and agree that it is sad. The market of the last couple of years has definitely expanded the pool of folks who are just here to make a quick buck, and couldn't care less about comics as a whole. That's definitely true. I can't say if it's true or not of this particular seller, but it is happening a lot. And that can be a bummer, for sure. But at the end of the day this is all transactional, it's about people buying and selling things for money. I DO think that it's more fun when there is a shared appreciation of the medium between buyer and seller, when you get the sense that you're buying something cool from someone who cares about what they're selling, and you're all part of this wacky hobby of comic collecting. I truly do get that, and I think that aspect of OP's post has been neglected. But, of course, we can't expect it to always be like that, nor hold such sellers in contempt simply because they're just there to make money. It is what it is. I'm glad OP found another dealer they enjoyed buying from.

As for Marvels, carp in a hat, I just sold a set for like $10 this weekend, if I'd seen this thread you coulda just HAD them!

You can love both comics and money simultaneously. 

[Namtak]

On 4/16/2022 at 3:55 PM, Krydel4 said:

At a show I went to recently, there was a Vendor who had a table, 3 full Slab Short boxes, a printout of the Slabs in the boxes with their grade and GPA prices and a Square payment terminal. I perused the print out taped to the table. Asked to see the book as he had the lids on the boxes. He got it out (putting the lid back on), I looked at it, the grade given on the slab was pretty soft as it was given a 9.6 and their were visible spine ticks, blunted corner and a crease on the back ( I had to ask him to take it out of the slab bag it was in). I made an offer that was within 15% of the GPA price he had listed as I thought the book was at best a 9.0-9.2 given the visible defects I could see. He smirked and said the price is as listed. I pointed out the defects. He said the slab says 9.6, the price is what the GPA for a 9.6 is. No Counter offer. I handed it back and walked away. The dispassionate way he went about this really rubbed me wrong. It just makes me feel that now the hobby has given power away to a third party its irrevocably become less human. It felt like I was making a stock trade. Anyone ever encounter something like this? Should we just have automated bot dealers?

You got one of these dealers,it happens,just walk away like you did and find happiness elswere!

[F For Fake]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:41 PM, Ryan. said:

You can love both comics and money simultaneously. 

Absolutely! I sure do! And that's what I'm saying, is that it's more fun when you're dealing with folks who really care. I do NOT think it should be a prerequisite, and I don't think there's a moral failing in people who are only in it for a buck. Just that it's a less fulfilling experience over all.

[F For Fake]

Also, inre: the haggling discussion, I usually don't ask for a discount. If a price is fair, I'll pay it. More often than not, if I'm buying multiple items, the seller will knock some money off without being prompted. They'll automatically round down, so, say, $110 becomes "Eh, let's just call it $100". Stuff like that. I always appreciate it, but I don't expect it. If I think their price is close to what I think the book is worth, but we're not quite there, I may ask about bundling with another item. Like, "I'll take this one at $50, would you consider $20 on this one (marked $25-$30)". But I don't do it often, because honestly most of the dealers I work with price the stuff pretty fairly, and if they don't, I'm usually not going to get as far as opening negotiations anyway. If I want a book, and it's priced fairly, I pay the price. I try to avoid socially awkward situations anyway, so it's just easier to pay asking price if the asking price is good. And in situations where you KNOW you're getting a steal, for the love of God, just pay the price and move on. Don't get greedy and try to wheedle the seller down more. Geez Louise.

I went to my first show since COVID a few weeks ago, and expected sky high prices. And there were plenty, to be sure. But there were also some bargains to be found. I also had several dealers tell me, while window shopping, "I can do better on that, if you're interested", completely unprovoked. So, the opportunities to negotiate were definitely out there At the end of the day, everyone wants the best price, on both sides. As long as both sides enter into discussions in good faith, and are respectful and polite, there's no harm. But a sense of entitlement on either side is gross.

 

[shadroch]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:05 PM, Krydel4 said:

Exactly my point. I chose to use the tool to come up with an offer I thought was fair. He thought that GPA was the be all and end all of what the price should be. End of interaction and I went elsewhere.

 I was beginning to feel bad for the good natured bashing you were getting, but your last few posts indicate you are still pretty clueless. 

No one has to buy a book at your price, and no one has to sell you a book at your price.

It was extremely kind of you to take time out of your convention schedule to attempt to  show a stranger how a CGC 9.6 isn't really a CGC 9.6 and to educate him on the proper way to price his inventory.  He was probrably just pissed when he realized he wasted $50 and eight months on getting the book graded when you are perfectly willing to not only grade it accuretly and help him to price it.