Does Expertise/Experience no longer matter to be a dealer? 8 8

[Axe Elf]

So basically if I ever become a seller, I think the lesson I'm learning here is to price my books at twice what I will take for them.  When someone looks lovingly at a comic and sighs, I can step in and make a friend for life by cutting him a 50% off deal, "because I can see that you'd give it a good home," but when I see someone backhand their kid on the way over to my table, or I just don't like the cut of their gib, they're paying full price.

Benevolent provider, or moral enforcer...  I can be whatever I think someone needs me to be.

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 2:26 PM, shadroch said:

 I was beginning to feel bad for the good natured bashing you were getting, but your last few posts indicate you are still pretty clueless. 

No one has to buy a book at your price, and no one has to sell you a book at your price.

It was extremely kind of you to take time out of your convention schedule to attempt to  show a stranger how a CGC 9.6 isn't really a CGC 9.6 and to educate him on the proper way to price his inventory.  He was probrably just pissed when he realized he wasted $50 and eight months on getting the book graded when you are perfectly willing to not only grade it accuretly and help him to price it.

Good Natured Bashing. Interesting way to put that. Don't really think those words go to together but to each their own. I merely put out a question to the board. I have received back some well thought out and cordial responses and some that were other. I have not at anytime tried to bash or put down anyone else's opinion but have tried to ask questions about it. As one other poster put it I touched a nerve. So be it. I would like to continue this discussion so please feel free to respond to any of the other questions I posed in this thread. Cheers.

[Axe Elf]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:47 PM, Krydel4 said:

Good Natured Bashing. Interesting way to put that. Don't really think those words go to together

Sometimes good natured bashing is called "roasting."

[Kramerica]

On 4/18/2022 at 1:57 PM, F For Fake said:

Also, inre: the haggling discussion, I usually don't ask for a discount. If a price is fair, I'll pay it. More often than not, if I'm buying multiple items, the seller will knock some money off without being prompted. They'll automatically round down, so, say, $110 becomes "Eh, let's just call it $100". Stuff like that. I always appreciate it, but I don't expect it. If I think their price is close to what I think the book is worth, but we're not quite there, I may ask about bundling with another item. Like, "I'll take this one at $50, would you consider $20 on this one (marked $25-$30)". But I don't do it often, because honestly most of the dealers I work with price the stuff pretty fairly, and if they don't, I'm usually not going to get as far as opening negotiations anyway. If I want a book, and it's priced fairly, I pay the price. I try to avoid socially awkward situations anyway, so it's just easier to pay asking price if the asking price is good. And in situations where you KNOW you're getting a steal, for the love of God, just pay the price and move on. Don't get greedy and try to wheedle the seller down more. Geez Louise.

I went to my first show since COVID a few weeks ago, and expected sky high prices. And there were plenty, to be sure. But there were also some bargains to be found. I also had several dealers tell me, while window shopping, "I can do better on that, if you're interested", completely unprovoked. So, the opportunities to negotiate were definitely out there At the end of the day, everyone wants the best price, on both sides. As long as both sides enter into discussions in good faith, and are respectful and polite, there's no harm. But a sense of entitlement on either side is gross.

 

Exactly.  This should be the "mic drop" part of the post where everyone says cheers and moves on.

[F For Fake]

On 4/18/2022 at 5:58 PM, Kramerica said:

Exactly.  This should be the "mic drop" part of the post where everyone says cheers and moves on.

[Ken Aldred]

I don’t recall ever haggling. 

Book in nice condition, price seems reasonable and affordable, then the discount offered by the dealer is a bonus. I’m not demanding or entitled that way.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Ken Aldred

[oakman29]

On 4/18/2022 at 11:28 AM, 1Cool said:

I had a funny exchange last week.  Guy messages me on E-Bay asking what my best price is for a $50 book.  I responded that it really depended on how many glasses of wine I've had and unfortunately I've not been drinking that evening.  I asked him what the highest amount he is willing to pay - didn't hear back from him.  

Hahahaha! Awesome. 🤣

[oakman29]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:08 PM, Krydel4 said:

Most of the posters think I was going to egregiously over pay for a common book at $92 anyway. And then some are giving me $#!+ over trying to negotiate a lower price for said book. And some of them are the same posters. It's all quite hilarious.

It really is quite hilarious.  Everything about your posts are nonsensical. 

[JC25427N]

On 4/18/2022 at 3:41 PM, Krydel4 said:

Why should a slab premium exist? It should be all about the book, right? If you are a dealer are you saying CGC grades better than you and if so are you seceding your right to have an opinion on a grade to them? Should I not trust your opinion on a grade of a raw book if I go to buy a book from you and I should disregard however many years of experience you've had in the business because you're not CGC? 

I feel like this got glossed over, do you really believe that there should be 0 difference in price between a raw book and a similar condition slabbed copy? It costs money to send a book in to CGC (or the other guys) and get it graded, possibly pressed, and slabbed. You can't reasonably expect dealers to just eat that cost and price it the same as if it were a raw, doing that is what I would consider the sign of an unexperienced dealer (or at the very least the sign of an unprofitable dealer). 

Edit: and just to be clear I'm not even talking about the specific context of you trying to buy that 9.2 in a 9.6 slab copy of marvels 1, I'm just responding to "Why should slab premiums exist"

Edited April 19, 2022 by JC25427N
grammar

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:38 PM, JC25427N said:

I feel like this got glossed over, do you really believe that there should be 0 difference in price between a raw book and a similar condition slabbed copy? It costs money to send a book in to CGC (or the other guys) and get it graded, possibly pressed, and slabbed. You can't reasonably expect dealers to just eat that cost and price it the same as if it were a raw, doing that is what I would consider the sign of an unexperienced dealer (or at the very least the sign of an unprofitable dealer). 

Edit: and just to be clear I'm not even talking about the specific context of you trying to buy that 9.2 in a 9.6 slab copy of marvels 1, I'm just responding to "Why should slab premiums exist"

Thanks for calling this out because it really jumped out at me as well.

The OP has clearly stated that what he's building is a raw collection.  That is to say, if I understand correctly, he is cracking most or all of the books he buys out of the slabs.  So yeah, if that's the narrow perspective someone is coming from, I suppose it's a natural progression to think that there should be no premium for the slab because by cracking the book out, they are destroying the incremental value that slab adds to their collection.

But of course none of that is the seller's problem or burden.

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 6:38 PM, JC25427N said:

I feel like this got glossed over, do you really believe that there should be 0 difference in price between a raw book and a similar condition slabbed copy? It costs money to send a book in to CGC (or the other guys) and get it graded, possibly pressed, and slabbed. You can't reasonably expect dealers to just eat that cost and price it the same as if it were a raw, doing that is what I would consider the sign of an unexperienced dealer (or at the very least the sign of an unprofitable dealer). 

Edit: and just to be clear I'm not even talking about the specific context of you trying to buy that 9.2 in a 9.6 slab copy of marvels 1, I'm just responding to "Why should slab premiums exist"

It's the dealers prerogative to pay the money to get a book slabbed. I am perfectly happy to buy unslabbed books. Collectors were perfectly happy to buy unslabbed books for decades before CGC. Dealers were perfectly happy to sell unslabbed books for decades before CGC. If a dealer wishes to send a book to CGC then the cost is on them not me. If a book has a FMV of $30 and grading/fees/pressing costs $60 and the dealer prices it $110 what exactly am I paying for? More than 50% of the purchase price is for a piece of plastic that makes it impossible to actually enjoy the books intended purpose of conveying a story in 30 pages. CGC is on the right track with selling invisible comics cause just owning the slab seems to be endgame now. It's mind-boggling that a premium is given to something that restricts your ability to use the item for its intended purpose, when it should be the other way around. 

[shadroch]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:31 PM, Krydel4 said:

It's the dealers prerogative to pay the money to get a book slabbed. I am perfectly happy to buy unslabbed books. Collectors were perfectly happy to buy unslabbed books for decades before CGC. Dealers were perfectly happy to sell unslabbed books for decades before CGC. If a dealer wishes to send a book to CGC then the cost is on them not me. If a book has a FMV of $30 and grading/fees/pressing costs $60 and the dealer prices it $110 what exactly am I paying for? More than 50% of the purchase price is for a piece of plastic that makes it impossible to actually enjoy the books intended purpose of conveying a story in 30 pages. CGC is on the right track with selling invisible comics cause just owning the slab seems to be endgame now. It's mind-boggling that a premium is given to something that restricts your ability to use the item for its intended purpose, when it should be the other way around. 

Says the guy who is willing to pay 9.6 prices minus a 15% discount for a book he wants to read.  You really should stop responding. 

[chrisco37]

On 4/18/2022 at 10:36 PM, shadroch said:

Says the guy who is willing to pay 9.6 prices minus a 15% discount for a book he wants to read.  You really should stop responding. 

Eventually it will all come together and make sense.  
We’re almost there.  I can feel it.  

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:36 PM, shadroch said:

Says the guy who is willing to pay 9.6 prices minus a 15% discount for a book he wants to read.  You really should stop responding. 

I have a question for you. It seems like you are a dealer so here it is.

I have a hot book that you want that the last 5 GPA sales are escalating...$400, $425, $450, $475, $500. And I bring it to you and say my price is $500. You will buy it from me for $500? No offer or negotiation? And conversely I bring that same book and the last 5 GPA sales are descending $500, $475, $450, $425, $400. I say I want $500. Will you still buy it from me for $500 as that is a GPA price that the book sold for? No offer or negotiation? And if I brought you my entire collection that only contains high grade keys to you CGC slabbed and based upon up to the minute GPA sales values my Collection at $50000 you would buy it for that price? No negotiation?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Cheers.

[oakman29]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:31 PM, Krydel4 said:

It's the dealers prerogative to pay the money to get a book slabbed. I am perfectly happy to buy unslabbed books. Collectors were perfectly happy to buy unslabbed books for decades before CGC. Dealers were perfectly happy to sell unslabbed books for decades before CGC. If a dealer wishes to send a book to CGC then the cost is on them not me. If a book has a FMV of $30 and grading/fees/pressing costs $60 and the dealer prices it $110 what exactly am I paying for? More than 50% of the purchase price is for a piece of plastic that makes it impossible to actually enjoy the books intended purpose of conveying a story in 30 pages. CGC is on the right track with selling invisible comics cause just owning the slab seems to be endgame now. It's mind-boggling that a premium is given to something that restricts your ability to use the item for its intended purpose, when it should be the other way around. 

You are paying for the knowledge that that particular book is not restored, or is restored. You are paying for the 3rd party to evaluate that book. 

If you can do it yourself,  or only want raw books. More power to you. I personally would rather have raw. So after all this smoke and mirrors you are doing the truth still remains that you are complaining that a 9.6 was soft , and that you would grade it only a 9.2. In turn you dont want to pay the 9.6 price , you want to pay a 9.2 price. I say why bother with a graded book in the first place? You say the thrill of the hunt, C'mon with that . There are many in dollar boxes that are 9.8ish and easily found.  Then you say you were trying to help all this seller out. The seller didnt care to negotiate prices,  so who the hell cares move on. It's not like you are negotiating on a 20K book, you are haggling over pennies really. Just get a raw book, or a trade and be done with this debacle of a thread. It's really not doing you any favors.

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 8:19 PM, oakman29 said:

You are paying for the knowledge that that particular book is not restored, or is restored. You are paying for the 3rd party to evaluate that book. 

And that is something a reputable and experienced dealer cannot provide? Therein lies the crux of what I was asking. But I have more than enough replies to this thread that it has given me a better idea of where the hobby stands now and where it is going. Peace Out.

[shadroch]

Will I pay $500 for a book that GPA is worth $500?  Most likely not, especially if I already have one or more.  That isn't how business's  grow. If I know I have a buyer lined up, I'd pay more than if I already have two in stock, but other dealers have inventories that dwarve mine and may have multiple copies.

None of that matters as you are trying to compare strawberries to lemons.  

You don't want to sell me your whole collection. I wouldn't want the whole thing and if you force me to take it all, it will be at your expense.  I like to make fair offers on part of a collection and leave the rest behind. 

While I still have some books out on the convention circuit, I have no interest in setting up at big shows.

[Dr. Love]

The hobby is stronger than ever, the comic business is about the Benjamins, same as it's always been, but less cut throat for the little guy than decades past

and you sir are a bit of a bad apple for not taking oakman up on his offer to give you the book you want for free.  To accept generosity with grace is a blessing to both parties.  I don't expect you will agree with this, you'll have some reason why it's nonsense in your case.  Thrill of the hunt, right.

Cheers.

[Krydel4]

On 4/18/2022 at 8:43 PM, shadroch said:

Will I pay $500 for a book that GPA is worth $500?  Most likely not, especially if I already have one or more.  That isn't how business's  grow. If I know I have a buyer lined up, I'd pay more than if I already have two in stock, but other dealers have inventories that dwarve mine and may have multiple copies.

None of that matters as you are trying to compare strawberries to lemons.  

You don't want to sell me your whole collection. I wouldn't want the whole thing and if you force me to take it all, it will be at your expense.  I like to make fair offers on part of a collection and leave the rest behind. 

While I still have some books out on the convention circuit, I have no interest in setting up at big shows.

Alright. You didn't actually directly answer the questions I posed other than that you would want a discount on my high grade key collection to do me a favor and take it off my hands 😆. It's okay. From this thread as I can pretty much discern what they would be.

 

On 4/18/2022 at 8:57 PM, Dr. Love said:

and you sir are a bit of a bad apple for not taking oakman up on his offer to give you the book you want for free.  To accept generosity with grace is a blessing to both parties.  I don't expect you will agree with this, you'll have some reason why it's nonsense in your case.  Thrill of the hunt, right.

Matthew 5-7. If you wish to further chastise me there is a PM function.

As I said Peace Out. 

[jimjum12]

I do ask.... simply inquiring if there is any "wiggle room". I respect the answer given and don't attempt to tie up someone's limited floor time by "lawyering" the grade.... but that's just me. GOD BLESS ....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

.... a couple of times, I've paid more for a book than what they asked, where the dealer obviously had not gotten the memo about recent spikes in "value".

Edited April 19, 2022 by jimjum12