Does Expertise/Experience no longer matter to be a dealer? 8 8

[thehumantorch]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:05 PM, Krydel4 said:

I'm not. A seller can put any price on their books. In my estimation it was not a 9.6. for the reasons I mentioned and it was overpriced based upon recent sales data that he was trying to use to price his book. 

I didn't. I walked away cause I wasn't going to purchase an overgraded copy.

Thank you everyone for your responses. It's helped me come to some understanding of the current dealer environment. I've had 3 takeaways based upon the question I asked in the Topic header:

1. That dealers do not have to know or have knowledge of grading or how to grade. That 3rd party grading companies are now the arbiters of all grading in the hobby and are infallible and any questioning of their grades is heretical.

2. Customer Service and/or creating relationships with customers is unnecessary and annoying. 

3. Pricing is solely the based off of 3rd Party data algorithms that create prices within a vacuum, that are absolute and never subject to environment, context, or circumstance. 

It's definitely a Brave New World for collectors. ✌️

 

1) It's a ridiculous statement to say dealers don't have knowledge of grading or how to grade, some are good and some are not but generally they're far better graders than the average collector and their business depends greatly on their grading skills.   3rd party grading companies while not perfect are impartial graders who have no skin in the game and they are far better at grading than the average collector or dealer.  And many of the books sent in for slabbing are sent in by dealers so their skill at identifying books worth submitting is very material to their success.

2)  The dealer passed on your offer and didn't make a counter offer.  Perhaps it was a consignment book - many dealers are now taking consignment books at a 10% consignment fee.  Perhaps he recently purchased it at 80% to 90% of it's value and he wasn't interested in selling it for break even - I often pay 90% for keys and quality books and I won't discount them a penny for that reason.  Perhaps he paid $100 for the book raw and $50 to get it graded and pressed and his price was based on his costs and a small profit.  Perhaps he believed the book had potential to increase in price and wasn't motivated to discount it.  Perhaps he didn't like your attitude and wouldn't work with you for that reason.  You're focusing on what you wanted without considering what the dealer wanted.   A deal is made when a buyer and a seller agree on a price and that didn't happen.  If you're so focused on customer service try offering twice his sticker price so you create a positive relationship with that dealer.  Assuming the dealer wasn't interested in creating relationships with customers is just that, an assumption.  Clearly he wasn't willing to discount the book to make you happy and if that offends you you can shop elsewhere. 

3)  Pricing is based on previous recorded sales, changing supply and demand, the motivation of the buyer and/or the seller - how badly they need to sell the book or badly they want the book, page quality, what the seller paid to acquire the book, where the book is listed for sale, and many other factors.  We see changing prices and trends all the time, and prices are far from absolute as you illustrated when you pointed out that 3 copies of the book had sold for less than the sale the dealer used to price his book and you further illustrated when another dealer discounted some books for you.  Clearly environment, context and circumstance have a great effect on sales and prices and there is no vacuum.

You and the dealer didn't agree on a price and no sale was completed.  And now you're frosty.  That's it.

[Iceman399]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:28 PM, Transplant said:

You can print it on your thermals. 

You just wanna see me in my bunders

[COI]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:36 PM, Krydel4 said:

No. I would have purchased it with the price equivalent of a 9.2 which is what I believed the book was. I also was not expecting him to take my first offer. I've never had a dealer take my first offer.

Do you also price/sell graded books for what you think the book is and not what's on the label? If not, you can't expect sellers to do it; if so, why bother with slabs at all? 

I don't have a problem with you trying to get a deal, and I think you bring up a potentially interesting point about the trend of people treating the comic market as a commodities exchange. The problem is, your experience of one dealer not willing to haggle on one book doesn't work as a premise for the broader discussion you want to have.

[Iceman399]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:21 PM, Krydel4 said:

See above regarding what I offered and my reasoning behind it

I read all of your reasoning and most of what you've said has contradicted what you said a post or two earlier. 

You buy books to crack them out

You offered 15% of what gpa was? But then that became 'average of the 3 of the 4 sales. Then it became more than the 3 of the last 4 sales.  However all of your arguments were based on it being a 9.0/9.2 and that's the price you wanted to pay cause of these defects in a soft 9.6.

 

So again what book in a 9.0/9.2 is only 15% more in a 9.6?  It has to be a dollar book else you are changing more of the story. 

 

Why not tell us what the book was and what the offer was maybe then more insight can be given like... Of course he wasnt gunna sell at that price 3 of the last 4 sales were before they announced that Bob Storms would be in the next mcu movie as wolverine and you are trying to buy bobs first appearance. 

[Nazirite]

[Krydel4]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:24 PM, oakman29 said:

What is the book in question anyway?

Marvels 1. I have a 9.8 that I display because it's the closest I'll get to having an original Alex Ross piece. It's the only book I've ever left in a slab. He priced it at $92 (GPA Sale was in 2021) plus tax. Last 3 Sales were at the time were $53, $60, $35 (2022). I offered $80. I've never actually read the series. I've got issues 2,3,4 and I want to read the whole thing when I've assembled the series. No spoilers please.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Krydel4
Added picture.

[oakman29]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:06 PM, Krydel4 said:

Marvels 1. I have a 9.8 that I display because it's the closest I'll get to having an original Alex Ross piece. It's the only book I've ever left in a slab. He priced it at $92 (GPA Sale was in 2021) plus tax. Last 3 Sales were at the time were $53, $60, $35 (2022). I offered $80. I've never actually read the series. I've got issues 2,3,4 and I want to read the whole thing when I've assembled the series. No spoilers please.

Here I'll make things easier for you then. PM me your mailing address and I'll give you one in 9.8ish raw to read. Would that make you happy? All this carp over a common modern? 

[Dr. Love]

And that's what these boards are all about.  You get your butt handed to you for whining, deservedly so, but at the end of the day comes an offer like this.

[Artboy99]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:06 PM, Krydel4 said:

Marvels 1. I have a 9.8 that I display because it's the closest I'll get to having an original Alex Ross piece. It's the only book I've ever left in a slab. He priced it at $92 (GPA Sale was in 2021) plus tax. Last 3 Sales were at the time were $53, $60, $35 (2022). I offered $80. I've never actually read the series. I've got issues 2,3,4 and I want to read the whole thing when I've assembled the series. No spoilers please.

Just buy a raw copy and leave the "9.2 in a 9.6 slab" for someone else. Especially since you are going to crack it anyways.

Curious why you don't buy a cheap raw copy to read? Why does it have to be slabbed? You obviously trust your grading skills enough that you could make a good grading decision on a raw book so you know you are not getting scammed (this must be true since you have the grading skills to question a book's grade to the face of a seller you do not know when the book sits in a CGC 9.6 slab).

A quick scan on Ebay I can find NM copies for $10 including shipping. 

I am extremely baffled by this entire thread. All of this over $12: the difference in the price to buy a slabbed copy of a book you want or $12 the cost of buying a NM on Ebay including shipping.

 

 

 

[Jaylam]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:36 PM, Krydel4 said:

No. I would have purchased it with the price equivalent of a 9.2 which is what I believed the book was. I also was not expecting him to take my first offer. I've never had a dealer take my first offer.

But the reality is the books was graded at 9.6. You can try to rationalize it being a 9.2 all you want, but your Jedi mind tricks didn't work on this seller and the seller sent you packing. 

[Krydel4]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:09 PM, oakman29 said:

Here I'll make things easier for you then. PM me your mailing address and I'll give you one in 9.8ish raw to read. Would that make you happy? All this carp over a common modern? 

Thank you for the offer but I prefer the hunt. My Topic and post example was not meant to be a whinging post but more of a comment and thought starter on the general attitude and setup I've encountered among new dealers at the last few cons I've been to over the last year since things started up again from Covid shutdowns. Obviously, it hasn't happened that way. My apologies if I inadvertently offended anyone. Cheers.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Krydel4
Clarity

[badback83]

My goodness.

[Artboy99]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:27 PM, Krydel4 said:

Thank you for the offer but I prefer the hunt. My Topic and post example was not meant to be a whinging post but more of a comment and thought starter on the general attitude I've encountered among new dealers at the last few cons I've been to over the last year since things started up again from Covid shutdowns. Obviously, it hasn't happened that way. My apologies if I inadvertently offended anyone. Cheers.

you have not offended anyone. Simply put: A large number of comic sellers routinely read these boards.  Your thread questioned the sellers of comics at conventions. Right back at you the sellers that are in this thread are perplexed why a potential buyer bothers to make a post on these boards over a difference of $12.00

***EDIT: I have said it before and I will repeat it here for the benefit of Krydel4.

You need to try being a seller. Take the immeasurable amount of time it takes to put together a selection of books and price them all and pay for the table space to attend a convention. Wake up early the day of the show to load up all your boxes of books and haul them to the show. Setup and get ready for the day. Try it just once, after you do you will never make a thread like this one again. Trust me.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Artboy99

[oakman29]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:27 PM, Krydel4 said:

Thank you for the offer but I prefer the hunt. My Topic and post example was not meant to be a whinging post but more of a comment and thought starter on the general attitude I've encountered among new dealers at the last few cons I've been to over the last year since things started up again from Covid shutdowns. Obviously, it hasn't happened that way. My apologies if I inadvertently offended anyone. Cheers.

PM sent. Seriously I would be more than happy to help you out.

[oakman29]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:27 PM, Krydel4 said:

Thank you for the offer but I prefer the hunt. My Topic and post example was not meant to be a whinging post but more of a comment and thought starter on the general attitude and setup I've encountered among new dealers at the last few cons I've been to over the last year since things started up again from Covid shutdowns. Obviously, it hasn't happened that way. My apologies if I inadvertently offended anyone. Cheers.

Hunt? I can throw a stone at 20 9.8's for nearly zero money, c'mon man!

[Krydel4]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:31 PM, Artboy99 said:

you have not offended anyone. Simply put: A large number of comic sellers routinely read these boards.  Your thread questioned the sellers of comics at conventions. Right back at you the sellers that are in this thread are perplexed why a potential buyer bothers to make a post on these boards over a difference of $12.00

As I said it was not a whinge over $12 it was about the attitude and setup. If he had the right attitude and had a conversation with me then I probably would just purchased his book anyway to help him out. I was the only one at his table at the time and most people were walking past him cause his setup was unwelcoming. It wasn't about the money. Cheers.

[oakman29]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:42 PM, Krydel4 said:

As I said it was not a whinge over $12 it was about the attitude and setup. If he had the right attitude and had a conversation with me then I probably would just purchased his book anyway to help him out. I was the only one at his table at the time and most people were walking past him cause his setup was unwelcoming. It wasn't about the money. Cheers.

I'm sure the seller was glad you came along to help him out.🤔😉

[Artboy99]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:42 PM, Krydel4 said:

As I said it was not a whinge over $12 it was about the attitude and setup. If he had the right attitude and had a conversation with me then I probably would just purchased his book anyway to help him out. I was the only one at his table at the time and most people were walking past him cause his setup was unwelcoming. It wasn't about the money. Cheers.

sounds like a very guarded seller, I will give you that. Putting myself in his place and if I had a potential buyer looking at my CGC 9.6 book I would have down-played your grading calling the book a 9.2 because of the defects by simply saying "well that is why CGC grading exists to establish a grading standard for both of us so my grading isn't in question and neither is yours. How about $85?"

[Iceman399]

On 4/17/2022 at 12:47 AM, Artboy99 said:

sounds like a very guarded seller, I will give you that. Putting myself in his place and if I had a potential buyer looking at my CGC 9.6 book I would have down-played your grading calling the book a 9.2 because of the defects by simply saying "well that is why CGC grading exists to establish a grading standard for both of us so my grading isn't in question and neither is yours. How about $85?"

You also wouldn't have priced it at $90 in the first place though well maybe $90 cdn

[oakman29]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:51 PM, Iceman399 said:

You also wouldn't have priced it at $90 in the first place though well maybe $90 cdn

I personally would have cracked it out to lose more money after buying it to read. Oops....😏