PCH noob here - help with etiquette to avoid lowballing. 1 1

[N e r V]

On 5/28/2022 at 6:16 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Well. there are dealers on eBay who regularly price books at several times what they would be likely to sell for at auction.

For instance, $4,000 seems to me like a stiff price for a VF mid-run Super Duck.

I can't imagine how they ever sell anything unless they're accepting offers that are a small fraction of their asking prices.

I think most people look at some prices and think “why bother since the seller obviously wants far more than market value” and move on. I know I usually do. There’s a book I picked on eBay that the seller finally switched to an auction so I got it for half his asking price when it was “buy it now”. The price I paid at auction was fair market but I never would have tried offering him anything before since his asking price was more than twice what I finally paid. I know eBay has its fees but a lot of asking prices make no sense and I see books sitting there for long periods. 

[Tri-Color Brian]

If you try to negotiate with a seller at a show:

1...Bring a price guide and wave it around in the air.

2...Offer 40% of current guide.  Tell them you KNOW they paid next to nothing for the book, and nobody even wants that title anymore.

3...Tell them it's a present for your 95-year old grandmother, or a gift for your fiance so she/he will marry you.

4...Act sad and dejected if your offer is not accepted.

5...If they offer a counter price, offer 40% of that...

Good Luck! 

 

[Ryan.]

On 5/29/2022 at 4:07 AM, Tri-ColorBrian said:

If you try to negotiate with a seller at a show:

1...Bring a price guide and wave it around in the air.

2...Offer 40% of current guide.  Tell them you KNOW they paid next to nothing for the book, and nobody even wants that title anymore.

3...Tell them it's a present for your 95-year old grandmother, or a gift for your fiance so she/he will marry you.

4...Act sad and dejected if your offer is not accepted.

5...If they offer a counter price, offer 40% of that...

Good Luck! 

 

I prefer the tactic of telling the seller that the book they are selling is a total beater piece of carp that no one would ever actually want in their collection, and for that reason they should sell it at a huge discount. 

[N e r V]

What’s even more bizarre to me is you see a book on a site like comic link and the asking is something like $1000.00 (I’ve seen it much higher or lower so just an example) and you’ll see an offer like $990.00?!? WTF? Got to get that last little discount. Lol I mean I’ve seriously seen offers within 5 dollars of the asking price. Just buy it already! Are people out there just messing around or is that serious. Even I at times rethink an offer and am like “what am I doing now.”.Just buy it. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 5/29/2022 at 11:26 AM, N e r V said:

What’s even more bizarre to me is you see a book on a site like comic link and the asking is something like $1000.00 (I’ve seen it much higher or lower so just an example) and you’ll see an offer like $990.00?!? WTF? Got to get that last little discount. Lol I mean I’ve seriously seen offers within 5 dollars of the asking price. Just buy it already! Are people out there just messing around or is that serious. Even I at times rethink an offer and am like “what am I doing now.” Just buy it. 

There are plenty of flippers out there who are complete scum bags, so it wouldn't surprise me if situations like that are examples of shill bidding. I've been $1,000 (FMV) books on ComicLink priced at, say, $5,000 with $4,000 bids. I just think, "Dude, no one is stupid enough to believe that you actually got a $4,000 bid on that $1,000 book."

Of course, the seller is hoping will someone who hasn't done his homework will see the books and think, "Duh . . . someone else was willing to pay $4,000, and the seller didn't accept, so the book must be worth more than that."

There are quite a few con artists out there, unfortunately. Some of these dirt bags will take two copies of a $100 (FMV) book, price one at $200, and price the other one at $400. They're hoping that a gullible buyer will see the copy priced at $400 and think that he's getting a deal on the one priced at $200. It takes a certain amount of diligence to avoid being conned by these grifters.

Edited May 29, 2022 by jimbo_7071

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:52 PM, N e r V said:

4) finally don’t be afraid to overpay a bit on quality books. The market will catch up and pass whatever you pay on quality books much like investing in nice beach front property.

This is one rule I have generally had regardless of comic genre - quality books and nice presenters will always earn more on the backend and/or be easier to sell. 

[alexgross.com]

dealers selling a 2k book for 4k are sadly, more common than one would think, and it is the biggest reason one often sees mopey dealers at cons saying that the show is dead, when really they are just badly overpriced. though i don't often see that big of a price discrepancy too often.

[Robot Man]

On 5/29/2022 at 1:07 AM, Tri-ColorBrian said:

If you try to negotiate with a seller at a show:

1...Bring a price guide and wave it around in the air.

2...Offer 40% of current guide.  Tell them you KNOW they paid next to nothing for the book, and nobody even wants that title anymore.

3...Tell them it's a present for your 95-year old grandmother, or a gift for your fiance so she/he will marry you.

4...Act sad and dejected if your offer is not accepted.

5...If they offer a counter price, offer 40% of that...

Good Luck! 

 

How about that it is for your “personal collection” and you have been looking for it “forever”. And now you are quibbling over a few bucks?…

Believe me, I’ve been collecting and selling comics a lot longer than most of these young flippers have been alive. I’ve probably heard it all. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 5/30/2022 at 11:17 AM, alexgross.com said:

dealers selling a 2k book for 4k are sadly, more common than one would think, and it is the biggest reason one often sees mopey dealers at cons saying that the show is dead, when really they are just badly overpriced. though i don't often see that big of a price discrepancy too often.

You must not go on eBay or ComicLink too often!

[EastEnd1]

I usually have an auto-decline threshold on my listings and never see offers below that amount.  And if what I consider a ridiculous lowball offer does get through, I simply decline it outright with no discussion.  Can't say I think about it, or the offerer, any further afterwards.  I sell a decent mount of PCH and while some of my pricing may be above GPA, that's mostly because there aren't a lot of transactions to temper the natural volatility of such rare books.  Since it's not an auction situation, the asking price generally has to be higher to hedge for significant potential upside.  Having said that, I will reasonably negotiate for ANY book I list so long as the interested suitor is also reasonable.     

[alexgross.com]

On 5/30/2022 at 1:55 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

You must not go on eBay or ComicLink too often!

i never look at ebay, i'm talking about dealers one sees at in person shows. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/30/2022 at 9:41 AM, Robot Man said:

 

Believe me, I’ve been collecting and selling comics a lot longer than most of these young flippers have been alive. I’ve probably heard it all. 

I think this is my favorite part about hanging out in the Gold area of the boards. The guys who have been around forever have great insight. I had my shop in the 90s, but I don’t recall a single PCH book ever coming through my door (I live in a pretty small city) - so tales of owners in bigger marketplaces buying and selling PCH and other PC books over the years are pretty fascinating to me.

And I have used the “for my personal collection” before. 
 

I meant it at the time, but I learned many years ago that the things you buy will always come and go with the exception of sentimental stuff.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:48 AM, alexgross.com said:

i never look at ebay, i'm talking about dealers one sees at in person shows. 

Any particular reason you don’t cruise Ebay?

[Robot Man]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:02 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Any particular reason you don’t cruise Ebay?

Like everyone else, I “cruise” EBay as well. But pickings have slimmed down a LOT. A lot less quality stuff and because of that, and the times we are in, prices have gotton crazy. Lot of “auctions” that start out at full retail. I attribute the lack of sellers of quality material due to the new tax laws.

Then, there is the fact that more often than not, I have to return stuff due to sloppy selling. Incomplete, coupons out and damage not noted. This happens a LOT lately.

There are a few great sellers there but everybody has figured them out. They are getting top dollar for their books.

I have in the past gotton my best deals at shows, flea markets, estate sales and yes EBay as well as here on the boards but these sources have pretty much dried up. I just don’t do the big auction houses any more. Tough to be a collector on a budget these days…

[buttock]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:09 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

No matter what someone is asking, I never offer more than I have to as an opening offer. There have been times on HA when I've offered $1,000 for books I would have happily paid $2 or $3 thousand for, so if the seller had countered with $3,000, I would have accepted—yet the sellers never even countered with any amount.

But if I make an offer on a book, and the seller rejects my offer without countering, then I won't bid on the book if it comes up for auction. I had an offer rejected on one book, and then I saw it offered at auction less than a month later, and I purposefully didn't bid. It ended up selling for substantially less that what I had offered.

You really showed yourself!  

[buttock]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:26 AM, N e r V said:

What’s even more bizarre to me is you see a book on a site like comic link and the asking is something like $1000.00 (I’ve seen it much higher or lower so just an example) and you’ll see an offer like $990.00?!? WTF? Got to get that last little discount. Lol I mean I’ve seriously seen offers within 5 dollars of the asking price. Just buy it already! Are people out there just messing around or is that serious. Even I at times rethink an offer and am like “what am I doing now.”.Just buy it. 

That's a shill offer so that nobody can offer lower.  It's essentially locking in the asking price.  

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:22 AM, Robot Man said:

I attribute the lack of sellers of quality material due to the new tax laws.

Boy, that subject repeatedly comes up - and it's true. It will be interesting to see how that has a lasting effect on pricing over the next few years. The new requirements and tax rate is actually a fairly significant issue on ROI, and I imagine sellers err on the side of caution, because no one wants to get dinged more than they expect 9-12 months after the sale was completed.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[Robot Man]

On 6/1/2022 at 7:55 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Boy, that subject repeatedly comes up - and it's true. It will be interesting to see how that has a lasting effect on pricing over the next few years. The new requirements and tax rate is actually a fairly significant issue on ROI, and I imagine sellers err on the side of caution, because no one wants to get dinged more than they expect 9-12 months after the sale was completed.

I think it has really hit EBay pretty hard. There are a lot less “little sellers” now days. I am one of them. With prices soaring, it has become increasingly more difficult to buy decent material for resale. As I have also said before, venues and options for buying have tightened up a lot more. When you add in taxes and fees, it often just isn’t worth my time. I do what I am best at. Buying and selling junk. I am not an accountant nor do I want to be one or hire one and further cut into my bottom line. This is and always been just a hobby to me. A hobby that is self funded. 

I read the other day that 10% of Americans control 89% of the wealth. And these folks can pay people to get them out of paying taxes. I’m not one of them. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/1/2022 at 9:17 AM, Robot Man said:

I think it has really hit EBay pretty hard. There are a lot less “little sellers” now days. I am one of them. With prices soaring, it has become increasingly more difficult to buy decent material for resale. As I have also said before, venues and options for buying have tightened up a lot more. When you add in taxes and fees, it often just isn’t worth my time. I do what I am best at. Buying and selling junk. I am not an accountant nor do I want to be one or hire one and further cut into my bottom line. This is and always been just a hobby to me. A hobby that is self funded. 

I read the other day that 10% of Americans control 89% of the wealth. And these folks can pay people to get them out of paying taxes. I’m not one of them. 

I am selling my record collection on Ebay (15% in the record category) - and I've had years for it to accrue in value, but I am shocked to find that 50% of my profits go to Ebay, Discogs, Paypal and USPS. Granted, without those services, I couldn't even sell them - but wow. It's a steep cost. And to speak to the "sellers" aspect - how can a seller buy something and flip it without letting it sit and gain value for a few years? That's not how being a seller works - you buy a collection, then try to sell to recoup your initial investment and make a profit. But when a place like Ebay has such high fees, I'm sure it discourages sellers from even being on the platform. I am lucky, as I am making profit off most of my stuff that has been siting for 5+ years, but when I start getting into records that I've bought the past year, it's either keep them or sell at a loss, because a $20 record is not going to be sell-able at $28 in a month just so I can break even.

I am similar to you - my hobby pays for itself. My records pay for my comic books, and at some point my comics will have to pay for other comics. And if the taxes and fees become too gratuitous, it's going to slow down ALL hobbies, not just comics. I am repeatedly asked about getting around sales tax - which is not a big deal for me, because I am in Montana (No sales tax) and when I sell something, it's not my responsibility to charge,collect or hold sales tax. That is up to the buyer. But I've had my fair share of people not follow through on Ebay sales because they don't want to pay an additional 9% sales tax.

 

 

[Robot Man]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:29 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I am selling my record collection on Ebay (15% in the record category) - and I've had years for it to accrue in value, but I am shocked to find that 50% of my profits go to Ebay, Discogs, Paypal and USPS. Granted, without those services, I couldn't even sell them - but wow. It's a steep cost. And to speak to the "sellers" aspect - how can a seller buy something and flip it without letting it sit and gain value for a few years? That's not how being a seller works - you buy a collection, then try to sell to recoup your initial investment and make a profit. But when a place like Ebay has such high fees, I'm sure it discourages sellers from even being on the platform. I am lucky, as I am making profit off most of my stuff that has been siting for 5+ years, but when I start getting into records that I've bought the past year, it's either keep them or sell at a loss, because a $20 record is not going to be sell-able at $28 in a month just so I can break even.

I am similar to you - my hobby pays for itself. My records pay for my comic books, and at some point my comics will have to pay for other comics. And if the taxes and fees become too gratuitous, it's going to slow down ALL hobbies, not just comics. I am repeatedly asked about getting around sales tax - which is not a big deal for me, because I am in Montana (No sales tax) and when I sell something, it's not my responsibility to charge,collect or hold sales tax. That is up to the buyer. But I've had my fair share of people not follow through on Ebay sales because they don't want to pay an additional 9% sales tax.

 

 

Yeah, I used to sell my life long collection of records on eBay as well. Often, stuff went WAY less than it should. When they raised the fees, I quit. Why records should have higher fees is beyond me? Maybe because EBay makes less on record sales?

I do local flea markets selling old comics, toys, sports stuff, advertising signs and all kinds of collectibles. I always bring a couple boxes of records. They sell REAL well. No taxes, fees or shipping.

And I live in CA. Talk about taxes? The sad part is, the folks that live here have voted to raise their own taxes!  Uniformed and lazy voters.  I feel I already pay way more than my fair share.