C2E2 Variant Drama 24 24

[troydivision1]

So, I've never used Whatnot but I am looking forward to asking Jim Lee (as *current* publisher and CCO of DC Comics) his opinion on how he would have addressed the acetate issue.
Specifically, whether he agrees with Marvel or not.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Troy Division

[OJ Pimpson]

I can’t imagine CGC will do anything on Whatnot other than giveaways. They couldn’t be that dumb. Right? Right….

[ExNihilo]

On 8/16/2022 at 2:09 PM, Dimez said:

I can’t imagine CGC will do anything on Whatnot other than giveaways. They couldn’t be that dumb. Right? Right….

You'd think that.  Did people question the addition of CCS at the time?  Surely it must have been seen as a little weird that an impartial grading company was now offering a service to potentially improve the grade?

[jsilverjanet]

On 8/16/2022 at 1:29 PM, billsid said:

CGC

Can't Grow Cahones 

CGC

Can Grade Crap

I like this game

Edited August 16, 2022 by jsilverjanet

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:29 PM, Towhead said:

They went crazy the first time CGC tried it so it was no big deal the second time.

 

I now realize who I've been replying to all day, and here I thought I was helping out

 

[OJ Pimpson]

On 8/16/2022 at 2:13 PM, ExNihilo said:

You'd think that.  Did people question the addition of CCS at the time?  Surely it must have been seen as a little weird that an impartial grading company was now offering a service to potentially improve the grade?

 

[awakeintheashes]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:48 PM, comicbookfinsta said:

With marvel weighing, I’m seeing a bit of a tidying up on this nonsense. 
 

Honestly, I could care less about the acetate covers. Never really did. If Joe Collector wants them, buy them and I’m happy if you’re happy. 
 

My skin is in the game on the grades of 10 and 9.9 that were given to these polished turds. They bring to light what we already suspected…there’s a policy in place where CGC is willing to juice an occasional grade to 10 or 9 instead of a 9.8 to get collectors to chase that golden ticket. Those 10 and 9.9 drip drips keep people coming back, and keep those 9.9 and 10 grades rare and special on the label because the actual comic books inside aren’t a damn bit different. I always could live with this little game. 
 

As I said before, my theory is that CGC was sending a signal on this acetate business that if any retailer makes one of these special deals with us, we will grade it and make it worth the dealer/retailers while.  More or less saying, “hey, we’re both going to profit off this.”
 

I care about the credibility of CGC, so the signal that I received was, “we don’t have any credibility, so your bins of CGC slabs don’t have any credibility either.”
 

 

@joe_collector

[Kripsys99]

"We're Sorry"

A message to the comic community from CGC President Matt Nelson regarding "Acetate Gate":

"On behalf of both CGC and myself, I would like to extend a sincere apology to the comic collecting community for CGC's role in what has come to be termed 'Acetate Gate.' To put it as simply as possible: we screwed up, and we're sorry. When Black Flag approached us regarding the possibility of CGC grading and encapsulating their limited release acetate cover variant of Ultimate Fallout #4, we saw an opportunity to bring something novel to our customers, while simultaneously cultivating a new revenue stream for the company. However, we failed to think through the consequences of grading a dealer produced variant as if it was a publisher produced variant, and the effect that would have on the comic collecting community's confidence in our grading standards. We should have thought it through, but we didn't. The Black Flag variants, essentially being "bootlegged" copies, should never have been graded by CGC in the first place, and certainly should not have been given Universal grades without notations. In recognition of same, we will be removing already graded copies from the census, and offering refunds to anyone who sends the already encapsulated books back to us (the books themselves will be returned once cracked from their cases). I would also like to address the issue of BF variants receiving an inordinate number of 9.9 and 10 grades. Most grade deductions for modern comics submitted to CGC are attributable to imperfections in the outer cover. In the case of the BF variants, we assigned grades based on the acetate outer cover of the books. Acetate, being a more resilient medium than paper, resulted in a substantially higher number of the comics being graded 9.8, 9.9, and 10. CGC has never, and will never, "sell grades" - but under the circumstances, I can understand why some of you may have questioned same. We know that our handling of this matter has caused many in the comic collecting community - including many of our biggest supporters - to question our judgement, our business model, and our integrity. We understand your concerns, and take them seriously. Please rest assured that we care as much about the integrity of our grades as you do, and that we will never allow something like this to happen again. In closing, I want to thank the comic collecting community for caring enough about this issue, and our company, to hold us to account for our role in this matter. We look forward to the opportunity to prove to all of you that CGC remains the preeminent comic grading company, and that we remain worthy of being the gold standard for serious collectors world-wide.

Sincerely,

Matt"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to be clear, this is not the response CGC ACTUALLY provided, it's the one they SHOULD have provided in the first place.

After reading this entire thread, I just got tired of the condescending breadcrumbs CGC was tossing down to us plebs justifying their highly questionable actions, and decided to fan-fic the apology I would have liked to have seen in the first place.

Matt, if you decide to use this, I can PM you my address so you can send a cheque.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Kripsys99
Clarification

[Kripsys99]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:48 PM, Kripsys99 said:

"We're Sorry"

A message to the comic community from CGC President Matt Nelson regarding "Acetate Gate":

"On behalf of both CGC and myself, I would like to extend a sincere apology to the comic collecting community for CGC's role in what has come to be termed 'Acetate Gate.' To put it as simply as possible: we screwed up, and we're sorry. When Black Flag approached us regarding the possibility of CGC grading and encapsulating their limited release acetate cover variant of Ultimate Fallout #4, we saw an opportunity to bring something novel to our customers, while simultaneously cultivating a new revenue stream for the company. However, we failed to think through the consequences of grading a dealer produced variant as if it was a publisher produced variant, and the effect that would have on the comic collecting community's confidence in our grading standards. We should have thought it through, but we didn't. The Black Flag variants, essentially being "bootlegged" copies, should never have been graded by CGC in the first place, and certainly should not have been given Universal grades without notations. In recognition of same, we will be removing already graded copies from the census, and offering refunds to anyone who sends the already encapsulated books back to us (the books themselves will be returned once cracked from their cases). I would also like to address the issue of BF variants receiving an inordinate number of 9.9 an and 10 grades. Most grade deductions for modern comics submitted to CGC are attributable to imperfections in the outer cover. In the case of the BF variants, we assigned grades based on the acetate outer cover of the books. Acetate, being a more resilient medium than paper, resulted in a substantially higher number of the comics being graded 9.8, 9.9, and 10. CGC has never, and will never, "sell grades" - but under the circumstances, I can understand why some of you may have questioned same. We know that our handling of this matter has caused many in the comic collecting community - including many of our biggest supporters - to question our judgement, our business model, and our integrity. We understand your concerns, and take them seriously. Please rest assured that we care as much about the integrity of our grades as you do, and that we will never allow something like this to happen again. In closing, I want to thank the comic collecting community for caring enough about this issue, and our company, to hold us to account for our role in this matter. We look forward to the opportunity to prove to all of you that CGC remains the preeminent comic grading company, and that we remain worthy of being the gold standard for serious collectors world-wide.

Sincerely,

Matt"

Just to be clear, this is not the response CGC ACTUALLY provided, it's the one they SHOULD have provided in the first place.

After reading this entire thread, I just got tired of the condescending breadcrumbs CGC was tossing down to us plebs justifying their highly questionable actions, and decided to fan-fic the apology I would have liked to have seen in the first place.

Matt, if you decide to use this, I can PM you my address so you can send a cheque.

[eddly]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:48 PM, Kripsys99 said:

Just to be clear, this is not the response CGC ACTUALLY provided, it's the one they SHOULD have provided in the first place.

After reading this entire thread, I just got tired of the condescending breadcrumbs CGC was tossing down to us plebs justifying their highly questionable actions, and decided to fan-fic the apology I would have liked to have seen in the first place.

Matt, if you decide to use this, I can PM you my address so you can send a cheque.

 

I suggest editing your original post to clarify that.

[Jimmy Linguini]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:17 PM, Towhead said:

This I assume. Looks like the CGC links are dead.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9712609&Board=4&fpart=all&gonew=1#UNREAD For purposes of transparency we thought it important to inform everyone that on December 13, 2016, CGC was sued in the Court of Common Pleas of Philadelphia County by Matthew & Emily Meyers, as well as by their business Investment Grade Books, LLC ("IGB". Also named as defendants were CCS, Matt Nelson and Heritage Auctions, Inc. We just received the Complaint three days ago. In all five claims were asserted against the defendants. The Meyers claim (1) Defamation and (2) False Light, while IGB alleges (3) Intentional Interference with Existing Business Relations and (4) Intentional Interference with Prospective Contractual Relations. Both the Meyers and IGB are jointly pursuing a claim of (5) Civil Conspiracy. Rather than provide all the specific details, and because we believe it is important the community is aware of this action, I am providing a link of the full Complaint for everyone's review: https://www.docdroid.net/Dx6w7uS/complaint.pdf.html On behalf of CGC, CCS and Matt, rest assured we find the allegations to be false and completely baseless. We will not just defend ourselves against this lawsuit but actually fight aggressively. We welcome the opportunity to prove before a court of law that the accusations are frivolous. Many of you may recognize some of the allegations as having been the subject of discussion in this Gold Comics thread entitled "There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay" from 2015-16 where the Meyers posted under the username "igb": http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9083257&fpart=1 We take our commitment to this community very seriously, and we stand by our services and product 100%. That is why I will keep the community abreast of what transpires in the lawsuit, but please understand that given the nature of litigation I might not be able to respond to your questions. But at the appropriate times I will post further explanations and evidence.

It was really weird when the CGC lawyer came on the boards and posted about that lawsuit and kind of solidified how close CGC works with certain auction houses.

[Buzzetta]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:48 PM, Kripsys99 said:

"We're Sorry"

A message to the comic community from CGC President Matt Nelson regarding "Acetate Gate":

"On behalf of both CGC and myself, I would like to extend a sincere apology to the comic collecting community for CGC's role in what has come to be termed 'Acetate Gate.' To put it as simply as possible: we screwed up, and we're sorry. When Black Flag approached us regarding the possibility of CGC grading and encapsulating their limited release acetate cover variant of Ultimate Fallout #4, we saw an opportunity to bring something novel to our customers, while simultaneously cultivating a new revenue stream for the company. However, we failed to think through the consequences of grading a dealer produced variant as if it was a publisher produced variant, and the effect that would have on the comic collecting community's confidence in our grading standards. We should have thought it through, but we didn't. The Black Flag variants, essentially being "bootlegged" copies, should never have been graded by CGC in the first place, and certainly should not have been given Universal grades without notations. In recognition of same, we will be removing already graded copies from the census, and offering refunds to anyone who sends the already encapsulated books back to us (the books themselves will be returned once cracked from their cases). I would also like to address the issue of BF variants receiving an inordinate number of 9.9 an and 10 grades. Most grade deductions for modern comics submitted to CGC are attributable to imperfections in the outer cover. In the case of the BF variants, we assigned grades based on the acetate outer cover of the books. Acetate, being a more resilient medium than paper, resulted in a substantially higher number of the comics being graded 9.8, 9.9, and 10. CGC has never, and will never, "sell grades" - but under the circumstances, I can understand why some of you may have questioned same. We know that our handling of this matter has caused many in the comic collecting community - including many of our biggest supporters - to question our judgement, our business model, and our integrity. We understand your concerns, and take them seriously. Please rest assured that we care as much about the integrity of our grades as you do, and that we will never allow something like this to happen again. In closing, I want to thank the comic collecting community for caring enough about this issue, and our company, to hold us to account for our role in this matter. We look forward to the opportunity to prove to all of you that CGC remains the preeminent comic grading company, and that we remain worthy of being the gold standard for serious collectors world-wide.

Sincerely,

Matt"

 

On 8/16/2022 at 5:48 PM, Kripsys99 said:

Just to be clear, this is not the response CGC ACTUALLY provided, it's the one they SHOULD have provided in the first place.

After reading this entire thread, I just got tired of the condescending breadcrumbs CGC was tossing down to us plebs justifying their highly questionable actions, and decided to fan-fic the apology I would have liked to have seen in the first place.

Matt, if you decide to use this, I can PM you my address so you can send a cheque.

 

Holy Christ... you actually had me as I saw this a minute after it was posted. 

[thehumantorch]

On 8/16/2022 at 10:58 AM, BoognishRises said:

I have zero problems aside from wishing Marvel would have specifically addressed the 3 acetate covers. Because without them addressing those 3 specifically, David Gabriel's memo could definitely be taken the way that I was talking about. Just a warning to retailers who choose to do a store variant to not alter the book themselves. But if a top tier Marvel approved artist is working beside a store variant retailer and they want to do something like this, your odds of getting Marvel approval absolutely increase.

But that memo makes zero mention of Blag Flag, the 3 books, Clayton Crain, etc. 

The memo is a warning to retailers about altering books themselves.  Anything regarding Black Flag or Clayton Crain would not be in a general release  memo and would be addressed directly to them.

[awakeintheashes]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:51 PM, eddly said:

I suggest editing your original post to clarify that.

Good idea. You don’t want Bo1983 creating a special thread about your fake statement. 

[Jimmy Linguini]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:52 PM, Jimmy Linguini said:

It was really weird when the CGC lawyer came on the boards and posted about that lawsuit and kind of solidified how close CGC works with certain auction houses.

Also, why does CGC have a lawyer on retainer that is specialized in "free speech" law?

[MetalPSI]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:56 PM, Jimmy Linguini said:

Also, why does CGC have a lawyer on retainer that is specialized in "free speech" law?

Considering how they censor it here, that is odd, isnt it

[Buzzetta]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:56 PM, Jimmy Linguini said:

Also, why does CGC have a lawyer on retainer that is specialized in "free speech" law?

 

On 8/16/2022 at 5:59 PM, The Meta said:

Considering how they censor it here, that is odd, isnt it

Because it is a private company and a private website and you post at the whim and discretion and tolerance of the people that own and run it.  But you already know that.  

Like it, hate it, but learn to love it because that is the way it is. 

The only reason that this is probably permitted here is because if not here everyone will take it to Facebook with more vitriol than we are already seeing since it will be more concentrated.  At least here there is the hope it can be monitored and eventually can run its course. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:58 PM, The Meta said:

If Crain had any real clout, or balls, he'd be innovative and create the Image for these times

Rock star indeed. Yodeler is more apt

[MetalPSI]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:01 PM, Buzzetta said:

 

Because it is a private company and a private website and you post at the whim and discretion and tolerance of the people that own and run it.  But you already know that.  

Like it, hate it, but learn to love it because that is the way it is. 

The only reason that this is probably permitted here is because if not here everyone will take it to Facebook with more vitriol than we are already seeing since it will be more concentrated.  At least here there is the hope it can be monitored and eventually can run its course. 

Yeah cause getting a week off for saying minority groups like PC bros and certain political radical groups are beyond stupid is encouraging to change my point of view and rethink the human being that I am, instead of screwing up my ability to buy books off the boards and miss out.

Buzz, I don't even know what free speech is. What I do know, is a lot of people are complete children who handle criticism with emotional blackmail and temper tantrums

[jsilverjanet]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:48 PM, Kripsys99 said:

"We're Sorry"

A message to the comic community from CGC President Matt Nelson regarding "Acetate Gate":

"On behalf of both CGC and myself, I would like to extend a sincere apology to the comic collecting community for CGC's role in what has come to be termed 'Acetate Gate.' To put it as simply as possible: we screwed up, and we're sorry. When Black Flag approached us regarding the possibility of CGC grading and encapsulating their limited release acetate cover variant of Ultimate Fallout #4, we saw an opportunity to bring something novel to our customers, while simultaneously cultivating a new revenue stream for the company. However, we failed to think through the consequences of grading a dealer produced variant as if it was a publisher produced variant, and the effect that would have on the comic collecting community's confidence in our grading standards. We should have thought it through, but we didn't. The Black Flag variants, essentially being "bootlegged" copies, should never have been graded by CGC in the first place, and certainly should not have been given Universal grades without notations. In recognition of same, we will be removing already graded copies from the census, and offering refunds to anyone who sends the already encapsulated books back to us (the books themselves will be returned once cracked from their cases). I would also like to address the issue of BF variants receiving an inordinate number of 9.9 an and 10 grades. Most grade deductions for modern comics submitted to CGC are attributable to imperfections in the outer cover. In the case of the BF variants, we assigned grades based on the acetate outer cover of the books. Acetate, being a more resilient medium than paper, resulted in a substantially higher number of the comics being graded 9.8, 9.9, and 10. CGC has never, and will never, "sell grades" - but under the circumstances, I can understand why some of you may have questioned same. We know that our handling of this matter has caused many in the comic collecting community - including many of our biggest supporters - to question our judgement, our business model, and our integrity. We understand your concerns, and take them seriously. Please rest assured that we care as much about the integrity of our grades as you do, and that we will never allow something like this to happen again. In closing, I want to thank the comic collecting community for caring enough about this issue, and our company, to hold us to account for our role in this matter. We look forward to the opportunity to prove to all of you that CGC remains the preeminent comic grading company, and that we remain worthy of being the gold standard for serious collectors world-wide.

Sincerely,

Matt"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to be clear, this is not the response CGC ACTUALLY provided, it's the one they SHOULD have provided in the first place.

After reading this entire thread, I just got tired of the condescending breadcrumbs CGC was tossing down to us plebs justifying their highly questionable actions, and decided to fan-fic the apology I would have liked to have seen in the first place.

Matt, if you decide to use this, I can PM you my address so you can send a cheque.

tag him @mnelsonCGC