I need cash - prices dropped again - Keys: Thor, Iron Man, Vision, Falcon, Kang, and some golden, etc... 16 16

[speedcake]

On 3/24/2023 at 2:09 AM, loganparker said:

 

Sorry for the lengthy post but I wanted all that were posting here to know exactly what transpired (at least with me).  I never disparaged the seller and was never concerned I wouldn't get a refund from PayPal if things didn't work out.  I don't expect books to be shipped immediately but do expect there to be communication between buyer and seller after the sale...especially for books of this price. However, what really was disconcerting was that his profile showed that he was visiting the boards but not responding to my PMs after I paid (whereas when we were negotiating the price, he was very responsive).  Maybe there's a glitch on the boards or maybe he was visiting...I'd like to believe he wasn't and there was something going on with his profile.  Either way, I'm happy to have both books and I'm sure he's happy to have my funds!

glad you've received your books A ok.
 

[ExNihilo]

On 3/23/2023 at 11:23 PM, speedcake said:

It's just that there is a process in place for us to self police the sales forum, for all sides to have their opportunity to say their piece and that process was pretty much crapped on in this thread.  

March 14th: multiple users claim books

March 15th: first known payment of books made

March 17th: users begin questioning the absence of responses

March 20th: users begin side discussion about probation

March 21st: call to have the thread moved to probation section

March 22nd: thread moved to probation section

Total number of days from payment to probation discussion: 7 days

Quote

1) The 30-Day Rule

a) If a transaction between board members is not completed within 30 days, the offended party may submit the offender's name for inclusion to the HOS/Probation List (hereafter called the PL)

 

b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

c) The 30-day rule is suspended if the accused refuses to complete the transaction or if the transaction cannot be completed due to, for example, the item being sold to someone else.

 

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

[thehumantorch]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:09 AM, loganparker said:

I'm going to share my experience with this purchase hoping that it will clarify exactly what took place (at least for me). I've been on the boards since 2015 and have made numerous purchases, including from many of you who posted in this thread. I believe paying punctually for a purchase should be expected and I've always done that with any books I've claimed. I too believe this is the best place to buy comics from reputable sellers and have never had an issue until this most recent purchase. I don't personally know the seller and have no hard feeling towards him. I'm going to present this in a timeline fashion because I believe that will best show what transpired.  

1/17 - Claimed the seller's Tales To Astonish 13 7.0 after negotiating a price via PM (I believe I previously posted I purchased a 5 figure book from him at this time, I meant 4 figure)

1/17 - Seller sent me a PayPal invoice for the agreed upon price

1/17 - I paid the seller the same day via PayPal Goods and Services

1/18 - Seller sent me a PM stating a snow storm was keeping him from the post office and he would ship as soon as he could

1/19 - Seller sent me a PM stating he shipped the book and provided tracking

1/21 - I received the book as described.  Seller notified.

3/3 - Seller sent me a PM offering his JIM 83 4.0 for a certain price (a book I mentioned to him previously I was interested in)

3/4 - I requested some close-up pics of the book (no response)

3/13 - I requested the pics again (pics were sent)

3/15 - Claimed the seller's JIM 83 4.0 after negotiating a price via PM

3/15 - Seller sent me a PayPal invoice for the agreed upon price

3/15 - I paid the seller the same day via PayPal Goods and Services

3/16 - Sent the seller a PM to confirm the payment was received on his end and ask when he would be shipping it (I tend to do this for larger purchases)...(no response)

3/17 - Sent another PM to confirm the payment was received (no response)

3/17 - KryptoSpidey made a post in his sales thread asking if I had heard from the seller (I responded no and I that I hoped everything was fine)

3/18 - I noticed on his profile it said he had visited the boards the previous day (3/17) at 10:09 AM

3/18 - I posted a pic of that and asked if that meant he had visited the boards...the response was that yes is does mean he was on the boards (still no response to my PMs)

3/19-3/20 - His profile indicated that he visited the boards at least 2 more times (still no response to my PMs)

3/21 (5:27 PM) - Received a PM from the seller saying "hey, sorry - kids were off for spring break. Bringing to the post office today. Will send the tracking shortly." Asked about his profile showing he had visited the boards and he stated he was never on the boards.  Seller sent me a tracking #...it was missing the first 4 digits but I was able to locate the tracking # through my USPS account.  I asked the seller if he sent it Priority Mail but never got a response.

3/23 - Book arrived as described in listing.  PM sent to seller to notify him.

Sorry for the lengthy post but I wanted all that were posting here to know exactly what transpired (at least with me).  I never disparaged the seller and was never concerned I wouldn't get a refund from PayPal if things didn't work out.  I don't expect books to be shipped immediately but do expect there to be communication between buyer and seller after the sale...especially for books of this price. However, what really was disconcerting was that his profile showed that he was visiting the boards but not responding to my PMs after I paid (whereas when we were negotiating the price, he was very responsive).  Maybe there's a glitch on the boards or maybe he was visiting...I'd like to believe he wasn't and there was something going on with his profile.  Either way, I'm happy to have both books and I'm sure he's happy to have my funds!

Thanks for a calm and informational post.  It does help.  

[ttfitz]

On 3/24/2023 at 2:09 AM, loganparker said:

However, what really was disconcerting was that his profile showed that he was visiting the boards but not responding to my PMs after I paid (whereas when we were negotiating the price, he was very responsive).  Maybe there's a glitch on the boards or maybe he was visiting...I'd like to believe he wasn't and there was something going on with his profile.

I'm not sure how that "last visit" thing works, either - I've pretty much always got a few tabs open on forum pages, whether I am actually reading anything or not. It's possible it could show me as being here when I haven't looked at anything at all.

[grendel013]

Well we were warned to beware the Ides of March.I just find it ironic that this was the first sales post I started to follow. What a great first impression. Lol.

[crassus]

On 3/24/2023 at 7:36 AM, grendel013 said:

Well we were warned to beware the Ides of March.I just find it ironic that this was the first sales post I started to follow. What a great first impression. Lol.

I will join the Chorus in saying that this kind of drama is the exception and not the rule. The framework of rules that govern the Sales area here is longstanding and time tested. When something new has come up the community has been able to work with the host and moderation to adapt. I am no historian of the hobby on the internet, but I have to think that among message boards this must be among the oldest active. I have bought and sold on here for going on 10 years now, and I have never lost a wink of sleep. This place works very well because there is a community that supports and protects it. 

[CAHokie]

On 3/24/2023 at 7:36 AM, grendel013 said:

Well we were warned to beware the Ides of March.I just find it ironic that this was the first sales post I started to follow. What a great first impression. Lol.

This is not the typical progress of a sales thread. I used to buy a whole lot here and yeah, there may be a minor hiccup now and then but even those are rare and usually easily fixed.

I don’t think this thread was a total waste. It shows how not to run a sales thread if circumstances allow (we don’t know that part yet).  It also showed a little of what some deem as acceptable behavior and what others do not on both sides.

I personally would suggest not starting sales threads unless you know you will be able to dedicate time to them barring unforeseen emergencies. Also, the use of I urgently need money seems to always put spotlights on threads, good or bad, so make sure they are warranted.  

[Randall Dowling]

On 3/24/2023 at 4:01 AM, ttfitz said:

I'm not sure how that "last visit" thing works, either - I've pretty much always got a few tabs open on forum pages, whether I am actually reading anything or not. It's possible it could show me as being here when I haven't looked at anything at all.

Yep.  Depending on the browser, it absolutely will.

[skypinkblu]

I'm one of those people who leaves their desktop on all day if I'm home, I walk back and forth while I'm doing things. I usually have it set to the forum...Sometimes I have it set to shut off in 40 minutes...sometimes not. I can be out running around and it looks like I'm online. I used to get a lot of IMs (when IMs were the thing) asking where I was and why wasn't I answering.

Edit, so I can see where it appears someone is here...

I'm glad things seem to be OK, I'd also suggest communication is a key part of selling if you plan on doing any selling.

Edited March 24, 2023 by skypinkblu

[universal soldier]

To add on about buying experiences, I've never had a bad transaction on here in 14+ years. I am selective about who I deal with but feel confident that the board policies make it a great place to get some great deals. I've had some sellers that over grade but never enough to make me request a refund etc... Those sellers that do that on a regular basis, I just don't buy from anymore.

Side note on the PMs. Maybe the seller doesn't have the option turned on, but I have all PMs sent to my email. Sometimes it's easier to read the email if at work/in meetings or out and about. 

 

[grendel013]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:11 AM, crassus said:

I will join the Chorus in saying that this kind of drama is the exception and not the rule. The framework of rules that govern the Sales area here is longstanding and time tested. When something new has come up the community has been able to work with the host and moderation to adapt. I am no historian of the hobby on the internet, but I have to think that among message boards this must be among the oldest active. I have bought and sold on here for going on 10 years now, and I have never lost a wink of sleep. This place works very well because there is a community that supports and protects it. 

I'm actually happy to have joined when I did. I don't want to see things all polished and shiny when they are at their best because then I can potentially be let down later on. I want to see them at their worst because then if I can tolerate that I know it will ALWAYS be okay. Kinda like looking for your perfect mate. Of course I want to see them all manicured and groomed for a night on the town but in reality I'll need to accept them messy hair and morning breath on a day to day basis. I'm happy to hear that MOST of the time sales go without a hitch but it is more interesting to see how things get resolved when they don't. I'm a big advocate on communities like this policing themselves.

[Randall Dowling]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:44 AM, grendel013 said:

I'm actually happy to have joined when I did. I don't want to see things all polished and shiny when they are at their best because then I can potentially be let down later on. I want to see them at their worst because then if I can tolerate that I know it will ALWAYS be okay. Kinda like looking for your perfect mate. Of course I want to see them all manicured and groomed for a night on the town but in reality I'll need to accept them messy hair and morning breath on a day to day basis. I'm happy to hear that MOST of the time sales go without a hitch but it is more interesting to see how things get resolved when they don't. I'm a big advocate on communities like this policing themselves.

This thread is severe outlier in terms of board behavior.  Every buyer I've ever had, has been great to work with. 

[ExNihilo]

If you look at the history of the Probation section of the board and see the creation date and activity of the various threads, this sort of drama is few and far between.

[CAHokie]

All the problems were definitely on the buyers. Certainly no responsibility or failure on the seller’s part.  

[speedcake]

Said no one ever 

[ttfitz]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:23 AM, Randall Dowling said:

On 3/24/2023 at 5:01 AM, ttfitz said:

I'm not sure how that "last visit" thing works, either - I've pretty much always got a few tabs open on forum pages, whether I am actually reading anything or not. It's possible it could show me as being here when I haven't looked at anything at all.

Yep.  Depending on the browser, it absolutely will.

Before I opened this thread back up, I went to one of my "always open" tabs, which is set on a post I had made weeks ago ("1000 books in 2023"). Doing nothing more than bringing that tab to the foreground, I hovered over my ID, and it said, "Online now".

Not definitive, I guess, but at least an indication of something more than actually being here reading stuff.

[speedcake]

On 3/24/2023 at 2:36 PM, ttfitz said:

Before I opened this thread back up, I went to one of my "always open" tabs, which is set on a post I had made weeks ago ("1000 books in 2023"). Doing nothing more than bringing that tab to the foreground, I hovered over my ID, and it said, "Online now".

Not definitive, I guess, but at least an indication of something more than actually being here reading stuff.

ya people often use the "online now" or last active info to support their case in disputes as evidence they are being ignored, and while sometimes it ends being true it isn't always the case and isn't reliable evidence.

[loganparker]

On 3/24/2023 at 4:24 PM, speedcake said:

ya people often use the "online now" or last active info to support their case in disputes as evidence they are being ignored, and while sometimes it ends being true it isn't always the case and isn't reliable evidence.

I did not realize that which is why when I saw the seller’s profile say he had visited the site I posted to the board asking if that meant he really had. I guess the response I got wasn’t accurate. Good to know. 

[VintageComics]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:47 PM, CAHokie said:

All the problems were definitely on the buyers. Certainly no responsibility or failure on the seller’s part.  

 

On 3/24/2023 at 1:07 PM, speedcake said:

Said no one ever 

This is not quite accurate. 

On 3/24/2023 at 2:28 AM, speedcake said:

No one is defending anything or flipping any tables.  I can't possibly be rolling my eyes any harder in your direction. Nothing you said here adds anything constructive to the thread.  

You, Randall Dowling and now ttfitz (surprise, surprise) are making it sound like the buyers (and the forum by extension) were impatient and unreasonable for expecting a reply sooner than a week. 

This is utterly ridiculous no matter how you look at it. 

I had a person I was dealing with get buried in 6 feet of snow in Buffalo, couldn't leave their home due to emergency road closures and had no power over Christmas weekend. ALL WEEKEND. They warmed up canned food on their body to eat and stay alive.  

They still managed to reply to me within 72 hours. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's really simple - the seller is likely a good person, nobody wishes any ill will towards them and e GENUINELY hope the sales thread helped but if someone chooses not to respond when they can, it was THEIR MISTAKE to break all communication for a week to a forum that genuinely cares about them and does a great job of being reasonable and policing this place. 

That's all this was about. 

All anyone really needs to do is keep people in the loop and most people are reasonable and will understand. 

Breaking communication will force people to start imagining all sorts of scenarios and people will get their pitchforks out. 

And if we are trying in any way to put some sort of onus on the buyers in a situation like this we're at risk of is opening a SLIPPERY SLOPE of giving nearly everything a free pass. We may as well stop charging people who break any laws. 

Oh wait...

----------------------------

And let me suffix this message by saying that I learned 20 years ago after first joining THIS FORUM that communication is key. As a young dad when I joined this forum, there were many sales threads where I needed funds in a hurry. That's normal life. I was that person, and there were times when I used to wait too long to respond to messages.

So I am speaking from personal experience and from being on the wrong side of this discussion. 

Personally, I think 24 hours is the correct limit, 48 hours is a bit long but possibly acceptable under certain circumstances and after 72 hours you're just asking for trouble. 

[speedcake]

You should petition to have the probation rules changed because clearly what you personally think they should be and what the rules actually are, are not in alignment.