Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1963) Butting Heads, Unexpected Success and Not Expected Failures! 3 3

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Strange Tales #113 - Story Plot: Stan Lee  Script: Joe Carter (Jerry Siegel)  Art: Dick Ayers  Lettering: S. Rosen (My name is SAM!)

Cover by Jack Kirby, inked by Don Heck with alterations made by Sol Brodsky?

Another issue showing the lack of quality or creativity without Kirby's involvement.  

Edited April 11, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Strange Tales #113 - Story Plot: Stan Lee  Script & Art: Larry Lieber. Inking: Matt Fox  Lettering: S. Rosen (My name is SAM!)

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Strange Tales #113 - Written By: Stan Lee  (i.e. co-plotted, and then dialogue written in) Drawn By: Steve Ditko (co-plotted, story, pencils and inks)  Lettered By: Art Simek

[Steven Valdez]

On 4/12/2023 at 12:18 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Strange Tales #113 - Story Plot: Stan Lee  Script & Art: Larry Lieber. Inking: Matt Fox  Lettering: S. Rosen (My name is SAM!)

Matt Fox had quite the Basil Wolverton influence.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Steven Valdez
slip of the keyboard

[Dr. Haydn]

Is Shanng any relation to Spragg, the Living Hill?

Edited April 12, 2023 by Dr. Haydn
clearer wording

[Dr. Haydn]

On 4/12/2023 at 5:59 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Matt Fox had quite the Basil Wolverton influence.

Yeah, I like Matt's inking better than Larry Lieber did!

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Tales of Suspense #46 - Story Plot: Stan Lee  Script: R. Berns (Robert Bernstein)  Art: Don Heck  Lettering: Art Simek

Cover by Jack Kirby with Dick Ayers inks. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Tales of Suspense #46 - Written By: Stan Lee  Art: Sol Brodsky Lettering: S. Rosen (My name is SAM!)

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Tales of Suspense #46 - Written By: Stan Lee  (i.e. synopsis, and then dialogue written in) Drawn By: Steve Ditko (story layout, pencils and inks)  Lettered By: Ray Holloway

Edited April 12, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Dr. Haydn]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:54 PM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Tales of Suspense #46 - Written By: Stan Lee  (i.e. synopsis, and then dialogue written in) Drawn By: Steve Ditko (story layout, pencils and inks)  Lettered By: Ray Holloway

I once thought that the 5-page "twist ending" stories by Stan and Steve were leftover inventory from Amazing Fantasy, but we're about a year out now from the book's cancellation in 1962. I can't imagine these simple tales were all that popular, seeing as AF didn't sell, so why were they still being written? An easy paycheck for Stan, perhaps, or was there a deeper reason?

[Plantman]

On 4/11/2023 at 10:10 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Strange Tales #113 - Story Plot: Stan Lee  Script: Joe Carter (Jerry Siegel)  Art: Dick Ayers  Lettering: S. Rosen (My name is SAM!)

Cover by Jack Kirby, inked by Don Heck with alterations made by Sol Brodsky?

Another issue showing the lack of quality or creativity without Kirby's involvement.

Dude, not cool.

[Prince Namor]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:33 AM, Plantman said:

Dude, not cool.

In Jerry's defense he was writing from Stan's 'Story Plot".

I'll be the first to say, I thought Siegel did some pretty cool Superman stories in the early 60's that opened up that whole series. 

[Dr. Haydn]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:34 AM, Prince Namor said:

In Jerry's defense he was writing from Stan's 'Story Plot".

I'll be the first to say, I thought Siegel did some pretty cool Superman stories in the early 60's that opened up that whole series. 

To be honest, I feel that the Siegel (and Bernstein) stories are competent and professional, but lacking spark. For the same reason, I find it hard to get interested in the DC stories from around the same time (although Doom Patrol is usually a fun read).

[Zonker]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:24 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

(although Doom Patrol is usually a fun read).

Arnold Drake claimed he was paying attention to what Marvel was doing at the time (almost alone among his DC cohorts), and his Doom Patrol was intended as a response to that.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:35 AM, Zonker said:

Arnold Drake claimed he was paying attention to what Marvel was doing at the time (almost alone among his DC cohorts), and his Doom Patrol was intended as a response to that.

Yes, I remember hearing that. Strange that Drake didn't pan out when he wrote briefly for Marvel in 1968 (short runs on Captain Marvel and X-Men).

[bc]

On 4/12/2023 at 8:57 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

I once thought that the 5-page "twist ending" stories by Stan and Steve were leftover inventory from Amazing Fantasy, but we're about a year out now from the book's cancellation in 1962. I can't imagine these simple tales were all that popular, seeing as AF didn't sell, so why were they still being written? An easy paycheck for Stan, perhaps, or was there a deeper reason?

Both an easy paycheck and, at least to me, many of these stories "borrow" from earlier post-code and PHM books so it was easy filler since they had been putting this out for over a decade.

Think these 5 pagers die off pretty soon and the superhero stories consume the whole issue.

-bc

[bc]

I posted this several years ago in the PHM thread:

 

Tales of Suspense 38 officially marks the last of the PHM issues with a cover date of February 1963 




Only Tales of Suspense 37 (1/63) and 38 (2/63) actually made it into 1963 cover dates; the rest had all converted to a superhero format by then or ceased publication in the case of World of Fantasy.

But it wasn’t the end of the PHM stories! It was just the end of the PHM covers. 

The PHM stories continued as 5 page nuggets that were hidden inside the newly introduced superhero cover issues of Journey into Mystery, Strange Tales, Tales to Astonish and Tales of Suspense for another 16 months until June 1964.

This doesn’t include content from Tales of Asgard (JIM 97-125), Tales of the Watcher (TOS 49-58) or Wasp’s Tales (TTA 51-56) as those had ties to the contemporary superheroes (although the first couple of the Tales of the Watcher stories are questionable in my humble opinion).

After paging thru several collections of post-PHM issues that encompassed every issue of the big 4 (JIM, ST, TOS & TTA) as well as the first couple of years of the superhero titles (FF, Avengers, ASM, IH, Sgt. Fury, X-Men, DD, Thor and the like), the PHM Sole Survivor Award goes to:

SKRANG 




Skrang was the last of the original PHM villains in the last original PHM story. Unfortunately, he retreated in fear from the Earth because he saw that elderly lady in the first panel wearing a fox stole while she was out alone on a casual evening stroll. We later find out that on Skrang’s planet, his race was at war with a vicious army of fox people and if this fragile Earth female was sporting one as a trophy around her neck, we were far too superior to even risk an attack.

That story appeared in Tales of Suspense 54 (which also sports the second appearance of the Mandarin - June 1964):




From there, we have to wait for the re-birth of Marvel Horror in the early Bronze Age and the subsequent reprinting/re-telling of the stories from our beloved PHM classics. To me, it sort of starts with the Tales of the Watcher re-appearing in Silver Surfer 1 (8/68) and the one-shot Tales of Asgard (10/68) and definitively reboots with Tower of Shadows and Chamber of Darkness in mid-69.

Here’s a list of the issue’s I’ve compiled that contain original PHM-style stories that continue into the Marvel Silver Age Superhero era:

Amazing Fantasy 15 (not like anyone’s going to buy it in any shape for the PHM content)
Strange Tales 101-113
Journey into Mystery 83-104
Tales of Suspense 39-48, 50-54
Tales to Astonish 35-51, 54

Here’s some of the Rogue’s Gallery from this group:

The Frightful Frog-Man (from Strange Tales 104)



The Star Raiders of Planet Torgo (from Tales to Astonish 37)



Tremble before the Killer Treadmill of Rodrigo Cadiz (from Tales to Astonish 50)



As you can see, these villains were just as cover worthy as Roc, Glob, Sserpo, Torr and maybe even the mighty Moomba !

I did not have access to any sizable amount of Atlas/Marvel westerns, so feel free to add data if there is any.

The Pre-Hero Marvel sub-genre that really originated with Strange Worlds 1 (12/58) under the combined talent of Lee/Ditko/Kirby/Ayers and others actually blossomed for 6 years until the superheroes were mature and diverse enough to finally carry the entire issues in June 1964.

-bc

[Zonker]

On 4/12/2023 at 8:57 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

I once thought that the 5-page "twist ending" stories by Stan and Steve were leftover inventory from Amazing Fantasy, but we're about a year out now from the book's cancellation in 1962. I can't imagine these simple tales were all that popular, seeing as AF didn't sell, so why were they still being written? An easy paycheck for Stan, perhaps, or was there a deeper reason?

I wonder if Stan liked the flattering comparison between these stories and Rod Sterling's Twilight Zone, which continued into 1964?  

[Dr. Haydn]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:36 PM, bc said:

Both an easy paycheck and, at least to me, many of these stories "borrow" from earlier post-code and PHM books so it was easy filler since they had been putting this out for over a decade.

Think these 5 pagers die off pretty soon and the superhero stories consume the whole issue.

-bc

Yes, the 5-pagers are gone by mid-1964, as you pointed out. (I should have read the whole thread before responding!) It's still a bit surprising to me they lasted that long, as I can't imagine that they had a positive impact on sales.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Dr. Haydn
minor rewording

[Dr. Haydn]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:40 PM, bc said:

I posted this several years ago in the PHM thread:

 

Tales of Suspense 38 officially marks the last of the PHM issues with a cover date of February 1963 




Only Tales of Suspense 37 (1/63) and 38 (2/63) actually made it into 1963 cover dates; the rest had all converted to a superhero format by then or ceased publication in the case of World of Fantasy.

But it wasn’t the end of the PHM stories! It was just the end of the PHM covers. 

The PHM stories continued as 5 page nuggets that were hidden inside the newly introduced superhero cover issues of Journey into Mystery, Strange Tales, Tales to Astonish and Tales of Suspense for another 16 months until June 1964.

This doesn’t include content from Tales of Asgard (JIM 97-125), Tales of the Watcher (TOS 49-58) or Wasp’s Tales (TTA 51-56) as those had ties to the contemporary superheroes (although the first couple of the Tales of the Watcher stories are questionable in my humble opinion).

After paging thru several collections of post-PHM issues that encompassed every issue of the big 4 (JIM, ST, TOS & TTA) as well as the first couple of years of the superhero titles (FF, Avengers, ASM, IH, Sgt. Fury, X-Men, DD, Thor and the like), the PHM Sole Survivor Award goes to:

SKRANG 




Skrang was the last of the original PHM villains in the last original PHM story. Unfortunately, he retreated in fear from the Earth because he saw that elderly lady in the first panel wearing a fox stole while she was out alone on a casual evening stroll. We later find out that on Skrang’s planet, his race was at war with a vicious army of fox people and if this fragile Earth female was sporting one as a trophy around her neck, we were far too superior to even risk an attack.

That story appeared in Tales of Suspense 54 (which also sports the second appearance of the Mandarin - June 1964):




From there, we have to wait for the re-birth of Marvel Horror in the early Bronze Age and the subsequent reprinting/re-telling of the stories from our beloved PHM classics. To me, it sort of starts with the Tales of the Watcher re-appearing in Silver Surfer 1 (8/68) and the one-shot Tales of Asgard (10/68) and definitively reboots with Tower of Shadows and Chamber of Darkness in mid-69.

Here’s a list of the issue’s I’ve compiled that contain original PHM-style stories that continue into the Marvel Silver Age Superhero era:

Amazing Fantasy 15 (not like anyone’s going to buy it in any shape for the PHM content)
Strange Tales 101-113
Journey into Mystery 83-104
Tales of Suspense 39-48, 50-54
Tales to Astonish 35-51, 54

Here’s some of the Rogue’s Gallery from this group:

The Frightful Frog-Man (from Strange Tales 104)



The Star Raiders of Planet Torgo (from Tales to Astonish 37)



Tremble before the Killer Treadmill of Rodrigo Cadiz (from Tales to Astonish 50)



As you can see, these villains were just as cover worthy as Roc, Glob, Sserpo, Torr and maybe even the mighty Moomba !

I did not have access to any sizable amount of Atlas/Marvel westerns, so feel free to add data if there is any.

The Pre-Hero Marvel sub-genre that really originated with Strange Worlds 1 (12/58) under the combined talent of Lee/Ditko/Kirby/Ayers and others actually blossomed for 6 years until the superheroes were mature and diverse enough to finally carry the entire issues in June 1964.

-bc

Thanks for the info!

Granted, the "Tales of the Watcher" or "The Wasp Tells a Tale" stories surely began as PHM stories that were repackaged (with new introductory and closing panels) to fit the new emphasis on superheroes. I remember seeing the one about the Wobbows in a TTA reprint.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Dr. Haydn
I actually read the quoted post and changed my comment accordingly