HERO RESTORATION - BOOKS NOT BEING RETURNED 20 20

[skypinkblu]

Being self employed when you have health issues is very difficult, especially if you don't have an emergency fund. 

Also the health issues may have started because of the stress of the business.

In my past life, I've had to reorganize some offices that were backlogged. The most time consuming trap is the phone calls. You need to eliminate the reason for the phone calls, which is usually the backlog. 

Obviously he increased the business too quickly, but that's hindsight. 

Nick Furious's suggestion about contacting the clients (a one time deal) explaining what is going on...and offering them a choice sounds very reasonable. 

Stopping taking new submissions also makes sense. 

But I have the feeling there isn't an "emergency" fund here and living expenses might be a problem.

I've worked with two agencies that have been very helpful. I'm not sure if they are in your area Mike, but you might want to check them out. Both usually have good banking contacts.

https://www.score.org/find-mentor?gclid=CjwKCAjwyqWkBhBMEiwAp2yUFjLYodUhBYetZoHulAT1Z0TnfHt1C8S6QPrWTajWJqtfOvWsOwR9bRoCQFoQAvD_BwE

and this one, both offer free guidance.

https://www.sba.gov/local-assistance/resource-partners/small-business-development-centers-sbdc

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by skypinkblu

[Dr. Balls]

Hang in there, Mike. Thanks for baring all, as much as it probably irks you to have to air all that out - it has to help with everyone seeing it from your perspective. I don't have any dog in this fight, but I see it from your side - and I'm sorry for all that.

Being the owner requires you to shoulder all of the responsibility of all aspects of the business - and for that, you have my sympathy. I won't say I know how you feel, but I can read into your situation and understand that myself and many other owners could easily be in the same boat.

Good luck, my friend.

[ExNihilo]

On 6/14/2023 at 3:55 AM, CAHokie said:

Yeah, my instincts are telling me that there needs to be another option. Set one day aside where every one is contacted and asked what they want to do with their books moving forward, and if they want them back set aside one day just to package and ship them back. That will lighten the back load and stress hopefully. As far as the money goes, that is going to suck if it’s not refunded as well if they paid in advance.

I'm guessing between the business and health care, they're probably already in the red and can't afford to refund customers AND cover shipping.

The problem with sending out an email at this point is it sounds like they've lied to customers enough times that I imagine there are some customers who believe everything to be another lie.  Much like "the boy who cried wolf", this is more like "the presser who said it was getting packaged."  If it wasn't actually being packaged in the past, why should a customer believe that they're being genuine now about sending books back.

Despite that, this seems like a genuine case of someone just running into a string of bad luck and the recent health problems are the top priority.  It's an unfortunate set of circumstances and I agree that laying it all out for customers is the way to go.  I'd like to think people could be empathetic and understand that progress is going to slow down as a result.  Maybe assign numbers for every open order, tell customers what number their order is, and then send out an email every month saying you're currently working on order number XX so that way everyone has an idea of how much longer it will take before their books are finished.

[Sauce Dog]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:43 PM, ExNihilo said:

I'm guessing between the business and health care, they're probably already in the red and can't afford to refund customers AND cover shipping.

 

There is also one other issue which I believe has come up at least once that is impacting refunds/shipping back (though I'm unsure of their current status / resolution); clients who's book(s) have been started and a notable amount of time/work/materials have gone into the project already but the owners are demanding the comic(s) be mailed back with a FULL+ refund due to the delay - making it an issue of who-owes-who-what-amount-of-money, and requiring more and more emails/calls to argue/sort things out which further add stress and time away from actual work. Not a good situation for anyone.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Sauce Dog

[NP_Gresham]

If Mike is telling the truth and he has insurance he should make a claim NOW to refund the collected fees and then return the books.

Insurance is for a rainy day, well it’s RAINIING now. 
I am not unsympathetic to anyone’s health woes, but when my local banker had a heart attack no one seized funds from my bank account and told me to ‘be patient you’ll get it all back… eventually …. Maybe…,

Edited June 15, 2023 by NP_Gresham

[DougC]

On 6/15/2023 at 8:04 AM, NP_Gresham said:

If Mike is telling the truth and he has insurance he should make a claim NOW to refund the collected fees and then return the books.

Insurance is for a rainy day, well it’s RAINIING now. 
I am not unsympathetic to anyone’s health woes, but when my local banker had a heart attack no one seized funds from my bank account and told me to ‘be patient you’ll get it all back… eventually …. Maybe…,

And to not contact a lawyer because your books will then be purposefully delayed to the "back of the bus" besides... he has so many AF15 from "big" clients that don't even care how long it takes, why would anyone complain about those "other pressing tiers". More so "If I ship your books I'm going to send you an email" except when he tells you they are packed and ready to go but not actually multiple times...

Obviously the purposeful lack of communication after some health events combined with the context of the communication that was provided is terrible. Going from no communication, to hostile communication, to excuse provided communication stripped any confidence from the majority of the customers and they have a right to be angry. The customer has been put in a position where they have to protect themselves (monetarily) and their property (books) from what potentially looks like at best potential misappropriation of business assets.

The sad part of this entire saga is that I completely believe the events as they have been laid out.

Unfortunately this is transfixed with pretty much everyone receiving the standard "death in the family", "family emergency", or "your package has like totally been mailed" from scammers just trying to buy time. Once you go through that, you are much less likely to tolerate those excuses going forward and leads to mistrust as they pile up and the "update" given is another version of "just wait".

I hope everyone with books gets them back.

[Hero Restoration]

On 6/14/2023 at 5:11 AM, Nick Furious said:

I would interpret the "wolves" as a pack of life/business troubles that hit all in the same time frame.  I think the important thing to solving this would be to include the customers in the decisions and give them options, as limited as they might be.  As they often advise people in financial trouble...talk to those you owe.  

Yes, that sums up the wolves. So much bad luck, I couldn't fathom the time to detail it out, or whether it's proper as a business to discuss such matters. Also, disclosure is like telling bad people how to do bad things, and Hero and I got more than enough of that. Most of the "Wolves" are not of my making, but the company was more vulnerable due to my lack of knowledge on large scale business. Once I leaped from "self employed" to "Small business owner", everything changed.

I am concerned what I share may give others ideas that are wrong way to settle a dispute. Clients can make unreasonable demands, and find a way to jack you if you don't comply. Clients are the smallest of the problem, but can have the biggest impact overnight.  Everything we believe to be real or accountable because of contracts agreements, or the law, is false. 

BTW, before Hero went broke, it was able to keep help on long enough to get nearly even book pressed, and QC'ed. Hero doesn't have any orders of any note that are unstarted, except for resto's that are in queue.

So imagine this, I am a small company that is now smaller. Because I am late, and have health issues, a high volume of clients want out of the agreement, ignore any expenses incurred since received, and want a full refund, and immediately. Now take that, and multiply it by 20-50. Then, imagine no matter what compromise I offer, all they want is cash, and they all want it at the same time, NOW! I will let you guess what they do to me when I can't, as I am not giving tips on how to work around a fair settlement. Add to that, clients who want to back out, and are not even late, and the dollar amount forces the company into liquidation. Too many people suddenly withdrawal from a small bank, what happens? Not every person who has a complaint is being honest, and legitimate, yet the damage can be staggering. Too many comic clients won't even listen to reason, or acknowledge the agreed terms, and I feel a lot of it is my size. Being late, customers not get discounts, or a refund isn't my idea. I learned this from CGC, the leader, and Model for terms details. The difference is the can enforce their agreement, and I can't. So there's a third of the problem.

I never wanted a innocent client to take any type of hit from Hero, I always try very hard to do the right thing. But when you are suddenly asked for tens of thousands of dollars, without notice, and obviously down on your luck, what is the logical conclusion? Honestly, people act like I am a bank that hasn't invested in long term loans. If you wondering why savings APR is climbing, it's because banks are running out of cash.

Then there is big business, that can smell a week defenseless company a mile away, and just wear you down at $500 hr for defense attorney cost until you break. (Interesting fact, did you know DC sued Fawcett over Captain Marvel due to infringed on Superman, until they were on the brink of bankruptcy, and conceded?) They can come at you in a way that increases default judgement, even though the case should be dismissed. Don't trust a civil attorney, they work both sides, and are more interested in clocking in the $, than your case. 

 

I have had malicious attacks where it isn't even about the money, it's about attempting to put Hero out of business. I thought the growth was building a company for the industry and the hobby, providing results no single individual could accomplish, and now I see I was dreaming. 

To those who want to come to a conclusion without a reasonable amount of facts, Or want to know why not to understand, but only to continue the rebuttIe, I take with a grain of salt, and avoid the wasted time.  I learned through 30 years of a bad marriage, you can offer all the reasoning and logic until you are blue in the face, and the arms will still be crossed, and the head shaking from side to side.

I have always believed we all have a choice; To be part of the solution, or part of the problem. That's the best I can do today, now to answer 13 emails asking the same question, in various tones.

On 6/14/2023 at 5:13 AM, CAHokie said:

I agree completely, especially the last paragraph. 

 

[thehumantorch]

On 6/15/2023 at 10:35 AM, Hero Restoration said:

Yes, that sums up the wolves. So much bad luck, I couldn't fathom the time to detail it out, or whether it's proper as a business to discuss such matters. Also, disclosure is like telling bad people how to do bad things, and Hero and I got more than enough of that. Most of the "Wolves" are not of my making, but the company was more vulnerable due to my lack of knowledge on large scale business. Once I leaped from "self employed" to "Small business owner", everything changed.

I am concerned what I share may give others ideas that are wrong way to settle a dispute. Clients can make unreasonable demands, and find a way to jack you if you don't comply. Clients are the smallest of the problem, but can have the biggest impact overnight.  Everything we believe to be real or accountable because of contracts agreements, or the law, is false. 

BTW, before Hero went broke, it was able to keep help on long enough to get nearly even book pressed, and QC'ed. Hero doesn't have any orders of any note that are unstarted, except for resto's that are in queue.

So imagine this, I am a small company that is now smaller. Because I am late, and have health issues, a high volume of clients want out of the agreement, ignore any expenses incurred since received, and want a full refund, and immediately. Now take that, and multiply it by 20-50. Then, imagine no matter what compromise I offer, all they want is cash, and they all want it at the same time, NOW! I will let you guess what they do to me when I can't, as I am not giving tips on how to work around a fair settlement. Add to that, clients who want to back out, and are not even late, and the dollar amount forces the company into liquidation. Too many people suddenly withdrawal from a small bank, what happens? Not every person who has a complaint is being honest, and legitimate, yet the damage can be staggering. Too many comic clients won't even listen to reason, or acknowledge the agreed terms, and I feel a lot of it is my size. Being late, customers not get discounts, or a refund isn't my idea. I learned this from CGC, the leader, and Model for terms details. The difference is the can enforce their agreement, and I can't. So there's a third of the problem.

I never wanted a innocent client to take any type of hit from Hero, I always try very hard to do the right thing. But when you are suddenly asked for tens of thousands of dollars, without notice, and obviously down on your luck, what is the logical conclusion? Honestly, people act like I am a bank that hasn't invested in long term loans. If you wondering why savings APR is climbing, it's because banks are running out of cash.

Then there is big business, that can smell a week defenseless company a mile away, and just wear you down at $500 hr for defense attorney cost until you break. (Interesting fact, did you know DC sued Fawcett over Captain Marvel due to infringed on Superman, until they were on the brink of bankruptcy, and conceded?) They can come at you in a way that increases default judgement, even though the case should be dismissed. Don't trust a civil attorney, they work both sides, and are more interested in clocking in the $, than your case. 

 

I have had malicious attacks where it isn't even about the money, it's about attempting to put Hero out of business. I thought the growth was building a company for the industry and the hobby, providing results no single individual could accomplish, and now I see I was dreaming. 

To those who want to come to a conclusion without a reasonable amount of facts, Or want to know why not to understand, but only to continue the rebuttIe, I take with a grain of salt, and avoid the wasted time.  I learned through 30 years of a bad marriage, you can offer all the reasoning and logic until you are blue in the face, and the arms will still be crossed, and the head shaking from side to side.

I have always believed we all have a choice; To be part of the solution, or part of the problem. That's the best I can do today, now to answer 13 emails asking the same question, in various tones.

 

I think it's important for you to recognize that the wolves at your door are customers who've you're generally let down.  A few have posted in this thread as figuring their books are gone and the money they paid you for work is also gone.  Failing to complete work on time, failing to communicate issues and going radio silent will turn customers into unhappy customers or wolves at the door.  I think you should also accept that you built a business based on your business model; you set the rates for work, you hired staff and purchased equipment and leased office space, and you're responsible for your businesses successes and failures.   

And don't take this wrong.  I believe your intentions are good and you're doing your best and you've had some bad luck.  I hope you can turn this around because the hobby needs dedicated, skilled guys who love the medium and I believe you tick off all those boxes.  From where I'm sitting the customers haven't failed you, you failed your customers.

[NP_Gresham]

This is a little different than the average business failure. When the Mylar distributer goes out of business I lose my money I sent in.

When this type business fails it is my assets that risks being lost well over and above a ‘fee for service’. 
 

It was big deal when Enron fails. It is another thing entirely when a bank fails. That’s why we have FDIC. A company holding assets of customers has a much greater responsibility than a company offering goods and services.

If someone goes into business without that in mind then that is beyond irresponsible. 

[Kevin76]

Sounds like Hero has money management issues   and bite off more than they can chew.  If customers paid for work to have done and it wasn't done, then just return their books to them, you can't keep their books & payment for months on end then complain they want a refund, the customers probably feel like they're out their books and money. Having health issues sucks but it doesn't give Hero the right not to keep paying customers in the loop and delivering work in a timely matter. 

[TC33]

Lets remember Mike had a serious heart attack here, he could have easily died, while there were other issues that hit him also, this is by far the most important and was something out of his control.  He is putting his health and life at risk further by putting in longer hours than he should to try to get through this huge back log on his own.  The situation sucks for everyone, but those making big demands and threats on him are probably making his stress and health far worse and a person's life and health/survival is far more important than these massive delays.   I trust that Mike is an honest guy and will all get all books finished and returned back as soon as possible even though that may seem like eternity for those that want them back now.  Mike has given his word here that this & his health are his top priority so hopefully those waiting for long periods can continue to wait for a while longer and have some patience & understanding for a really tough and unfortunate situation for all and can allow more time for Mike to get caught up and back on his feet.  Best wishes to all!   

[CAHokie]

Yes, but to lower the stress, the work load needs to be lowered. @NP_Gresham should not have to write off his AF-15 from 2019 AND the money he sent getting it restored. Give the man his book back and if work was done but not completed, pro-rate the fee. At this point he would most likely be happy to just get the book. Give….it….to…him….
 

There are valid life excuses here but some of the posts are also making me…

 

[Black_Adam]

This may not be the response his customers are hoping for, but wouldn't the simplest and most stress-free solution be to immediately return all books, finished or unfinished, and declare bankruptcy?   

[Mike Fiorentino]

I have a very similar situation. I can’t get in touch with Mike and he has had my book for restoration(ASM 2) since 09/20… almost three years. Every time I sought out for an update I kept getting some run around and was eventually asked for patience and his trust. Now I can’t get in touch with him and just recently learned that his company isn’t doing well… I would like to know what you guys who are in the same boat are doing about this… thanks let’s work together to get our books back.

[badback83]

On 6/16/2023 at 6:33 AM, CAHokie said:

Yes, but to lower the stress, the work load needs to be lowered. @NP_Gresham should not have to write off his AF-15 from 2019 AND the money he sent getting it restored. Give the man his book back and if work was done but not completed, pro-rate the fee. At this point he would most likely be happy to just get the book. Give….it….to…him….
 

There are valid life excuses here but some of the posts are also making me…

 

Ditto.  Why can’t it be said if the AF 15 has been dropped in the mail yet?  Seriously, what is the hold up with that one book?  Get it on the way.  

[skypinkblu]

On 6/16/2023 at 12:09 AM, TC33 said:

Lets remember Mike had a serious heart attack here, he could have easily died, while there were other issues that hit him also, this is by far the most important and was something out of his control.  He is putting his health and life at risk further by putting in longer hours than he should to try to get through this huge back log on his own.  The situation sucks for everyone, but those making big demands and threats on him are probably making his stress and health far worse and a person's life and health/survival is far more important than these massive delays.   I trust that Mike is an honest guy and will all get all books finished and returned back as soon as possible even though that may seem like eternity for those that want them back now.  Mike has given his word here that this & his health are his top priority so hopefully those waiting for long periods can continue to wait for a while longer and have some patience & understanding for a really tough and unfortunate situation for all and can allow more time for Mike to get caught up and back on his feet.  Best wishes to all!   

Yes, but health issues now, doesn't really explain why he still has a book from 2019.  I agree, that book should be in the mail.  

[HighRadArt]

Mike.  There's probably some folks closer but if you need help getting boxes and books in the mail send me a pm.  I'm a few hours away in WA state.  I also remember when you were starting out here and hope you get feeling better.

[Axe Elf]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:58 PM, HighRadArt said:

Mike.  There's probably some folks closer but if you need help getting boxes and books in the mail send me a pm.  I'm a few hours away in WA state.  I also remember when you were starting out here and hope you get feeling better.

Thank you.  Being partially retired, I wanted to write something like that myself, but I'm in Kansas, so not much availability to either coast.

I have absolutely zero stake in the business or the books in question, and I have little history on these boards, but having survived a double bypass 13 years ago only by the full support of a network of people, including the freedom to take as much time off work as I needed, I can't even imagine the despair and hopelessness that engulfs someone who is facing the potential end of their life with everyone being so disappointed in them.  I literally teared up when I read this thread this morning.  If I put myself in his position, I would have a hard time giving a damn about ANY of the books at this point, but he seems to be trying to do what he can, so for that, I give him mad props.

That said, the books need to move--finished or unfinished.  I hope this person will accept help, and I hope that enough of you are in a position to offer your help, and I hope that the rest of you concerned parties will be patient and supportive while help is rendered, and I hope that among the three, we are able to overcome human nature long enough to make a difference.

We all need to take care of each other, or we've all failed.

If there's anything I can do from afar... I'll type addresses onto shipping labels if it helps.  But let's do this.

[Hero Restoration]

On 6/15/2023 at 6:04 AM, NP_Gresham said:

If Mike is telling the truth and he has insurance he should make a claim NOW to refund the collected fees and then return the books.

Insurance is for a rainy day, well it’s RAINIING now. 
I am not unsympathetic to anyone’s health woes, but when my local banker had a heart attack no one seized funds from my bank account and told me to ‘be patient you’ll get it all back… eventually …. Maybe…,

Insurance doesn't cover that. If cover theft, fire, and flood. Would you like me to file a claim for one of those topics.

[Hero Restoration]

On 6/15/2023 at 2:31 PM, thehumantorch said:

I think it's important for you to recognize that the wolves at your door are customers who've you're generally let down.  A few have posted in this thread as figuring their books are gone and the money they paid you for work is also gone.  Failing to complete work on time, failing to communicate issues and going radio silent will turn customers into unhappy customers or wolves at the door.  I think you should also accept that you built a business based on your business model; you set the rates for work, you hired staff and purchased equipment and leased office space, and you're responsible for your businesses successes and failures.   

And don't take this wrong.  I believe your intentions are good and you're doing your best and you've had some bad luck.  I hope you can turn this around because the hobby needs dedicated, skilled guys who love the medium and I believe you tick off all those boxes.  From where I'm sitting the customers haven't failed you, you failed your customers.

Customers that have a true grievance are not considered wolves. A client who charges back on credit card 11k for restos not due is a wolves.bI won that dispute BTW 

Clients who's books were stolen values in the form 12k, but sues for $45, from thousands of miles away is a wolf. 

As Time is an estimate, GUARANTEE. This is posted in multiple stages. but gets ignore. Terms and agreement get ignored.I like Joey:s at CFP approach, post the date range you are working on, then there is no deadline. Deadlines are avoided to ensure the quality of the work, the minute you have to rush to finish. It's not going to come out right, no good deal goes on punished.

Not taking it wrong, just providing context, and errors and omissions. I can turn it around, but only if given. time. Without that, the work isn't worth having done.

I never said the customers failed me, the ones I mentioned are a small percentage, but have a large impact that, and effects the other customers in unpreventable way..

Again, restos are complicated, and silver age is the most complicated of them all. 

Sure, I have failed some customers by long timelines, but the still hey their books, and it's quality work.

I'M SLOW, especially now. If that's an issue, shop for a younger competitor one does a one and done.