DC and their special colors from the late sixties, early seventies 1 1

[paqart]

Who else has noticed how DC changed their coloring style for a few years as the Silver age turned to Bronze? According to Marvel/DC editor/colorist Gregory Wright, this was all thanks to Jack Adler, DC's production manager. He came up with a way to use a halftone screen to create richer colors and gradients that weren't possible previously. It was expensive, so they stopped doing it after a couple of years. Abel himself colored many of these covers. Neal Adams did his own (usually) using the technique. These are the only comics I collect for the coloring, but I do collect them. 

They are tough to identify until you are used to the style, because cover colorists aren't credited. Here are a few examples. More would be appreciated!

Edited June 19, 2023 by paqart
typo fix

[Phicks]

I recall reading that a Marvel colourist in the early Bronze Age decided to use a colour palette in one issue with lots of pastel shades of typically darker colours like blues and greens.   Stan Lee glanced at it, said this looks like a DC horror comic, don’t ever do that again.

[Aman619]

Neal Adam’s claimed to have introduced and educated DC about expanding the color stripping to increase the number of tones on covers. Basically from the early days, bring cheap, publishers made deals with the color strippers who cut out each color plates’ percentage of cyan, magenta, yellow and black so they would mix into the final colors on press. That limited the available colors to a minimum to keep costs down. 

in short, they limited the combinations to just a few specific combos of the inks:  40%, 60% and 100% etc . (Though I’m not sure which %s it was without looking it up.) So if 4 inks could each use 4 %s, plus 0 and 100%, the math = 6x5x4x3x2 (?). — that’s hundreds of tones

i recall Adams — with his extensive advertising experience — demanding that DC add the 20% of each ink. Yielding the subtler hues that you are talking about. Neal was hot and had his way. But not a surprise that they reverted back to simpler pallette later on after his most active period. Especially as the economics of the comics industry tightened in the mid 70s! 

[paqart]

On 6/19/2023 at 6:27 AM, Aman619 said:

Neal Adam’s claimed to have introduced and educated DC about expanding the color stripping to increase the number of tones on covers. Basically from the early days, bring cheap, publishers made deals with the color strippers who cut out each color plates’ percentage of cyan, magenta, yellow and black so they would mix into the final colors on press. That limited the available colors to a minimum to keep costs down. 

in short, they limited the combinations to just a few specific combos of the inks:  40%, 60% and 100% etc . (Though I’m not sure which %s it was without looking it up.) So if 4 inks could each use 4 %s, plus 0 and 100%, the math = 6x5x4x3x2 (?). — that’s hundreds of tones

i recall Adams — with his extensive advertising experience — demanding that DC add the 20% of each ink. Yielding the subtler hues that you are talking about. Neal was hot and had his way. But not a surprise that they reverted back to simpler pallette later on after his most active period. Especially as the economics of the comics industry tightened in the mid 70s! 

My understanding is that what Adams did is separate from what I'm talking about. The issue with yellow that you are talking about applied to interiors, not covers. Jack Adler is the guy responsible for the change to cover coloring methods. This link shows some of the covers from this period he did, notably, several drawn by Adams. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Jack_Adler/Cover_Artist 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Adler.

A related article: https://kleinletters.com/Blog/house-of-secrets-92-how-the-cover-was-made/, 

[shadroch]

I thought most DC covers from the 1972-1978 era lacked pop.  They were nice, but simply didn't pop out at you.

[paqart]

On 6/19/2023 at 11:59 AM, shadroch said:

I thought most DC covers from the 1972-1978 era lacked pop.  They were nice, but simply didn't pop out at you.

Not talking about 1972-1978, but 1968-1973 or so

[Aman619]

Yes you are right. Adams tweaked the interiors !  A brain freeze, covers have always been created/stripped to higher standards given the better paper etc. 

[jjonahjameson11]

On 6/16/2023 at 11:34 PM, paqart said:

Who else has noticed how DC changed their coloring style for a few years as the Silver age turned to Bronze? According to Marvel/DC editor/colorist Grgory Wright, this was all thanks to Jack Abel, DC's production manager. He came up with a way to use a halftone screen to create richer colors and gradients that weren't possible previously. It was expensive, so they stopped doing it after a couple of years. Abel himself colored many of these covers. Neal Adams did his own (usually) using the technique. These are the only comics I collect for the coloring, but I do collect them. 

They are tough to identify until you are used to the style, because cover colorists aren't credited. Here are a few examples. More would be appreciated!

It wasn’t Jack Abel at all.

Jack was a self-professed ‘lazy’ inker per his early 1980’s Comics Interview interview.  I think you meant to say Jack Adler.  However, as Neal Adams has indicated several times, he informed Adler about the additional colour options available to them, and they went for it.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:50 PM, Phicks said:

I recall reading that a Marvel colourist in the early Bronze Age decided to use a colour palette in one issue with lots of pastel shades of typically darker colours like blues and greens.   Stan Lee glanced at it, said this looks like a DC horror comic, don’t ever do that again.

Not sure if it was a colourist so much as it was the Steranko story from Our Love Story # 5

heres a sample page

[LowGradeBronze]

On 6/19/2023 at 1:50 AM, Phicks said:

I recall reading that a Marvel colourist in the early Bronze Age decided to use a colour palette in one issue with lots of pastel shades of typically darker colours like blues and greens.   Stan Lee glanced at it, said this looks like a DC horror comic, don’t ever do that again.

Wow! Can you recall where you read it as info like this gets me salivating to know which book we're talking about here. 

[paqart]

On 6/19/2023 at 12:49 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

It wasn’t Jack Abel at all.

Jack was a self-professed ‘lazy’ inker per his early 1980’s Comics Interview interview.  I think you meant to say Jack Adler.  However, as Neal Adams has indicated several times, he informed Adler about the additional colour options available to them, and they went for it.

Jack Adler. 

[paqart]

On 6/19/2023 at 12:49 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

It wasn’t Jack Abel at all.

Jack was a self-professed ‘lazy’ inker per his early 1980’s Comics Interview interview.  I think you meant to say Jack Adler.  However, as Neal Adams has indicated several times, he informed Adler about the additional colour options available to them, and they went for it.

THe 20%/50% yellow business, as I understand it, was interiors only, not covers. The covers were done with a halftone screen used to blend colors. Those are different processes. When Greg described this to me, he also mentioned Adams as a separate contributor to coloring methods, but not to the thing I'm talking about. Most of the covers I'm referring to are by Adler but according to Greg, other people used the technique as well. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Jack_Adler/Cover_Artist.

You're making me want to ask Mark Evanier about this also. I consider Greg authoritative and more vested because he is a colorist, but Mark makes an effort to know about this stuff also.

[LowGradeBronze]

@Low Dollah Fantastic find, thanks! Exactly the sort of detail about comic creation/production that I love to read. (And just typical that Neal Adams was at the epicentre!)

[paqart]

Here is Mark Evanier's official answer to my question to him about this:
 

"Neal took credit for talking DC into using another yellow plate on their
interiors.  There were those who disputed him getting credit for that.

The main development of the extra plate on covers was mainly the work of
Jack Adler, though others were involved.  Neal was doing so many covers
at the time that he surely contributed his ideas."

 

[namisgr]

I believe Adler was also responsible for the early SA cover color designs that distinguished (pun intended) from competitor Atlas/Marvel, including copious use of gradients.

        

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by namisgr

[Aman619]

On 7/1/2023 at 12:46 AM, paqart said:

Here is Mark Evanier's official answer to my question to him about this:
 

"Neal took credit for talking DC into using another yellow plate on their
interiors.  There were those who disputed him getting credit for that.

The main development of the extra plate on covers was mainly the work of
Jack Adler, though others were involved.  Neal was doing so many covers
at the time that he surely contributed his ideas."

 

‘Another yellow plate”.  Can you please explain further, or try to paste the actual quote?  CMYK included yellow, so a duplicate yellow adds nothing. Having said that, a more sunflower tone (on the orange side) would be a better mix in many tints than the basic lemony neon yellow used in CMYK.  But hard to believe DC would pay for 5 color printing!  That an extra cost to every job and most designers stick to the gamut (total number of shades achievable from CMY and K inks) available in CMYK

also most colors on covers are flat tones same as the interiors and stripped in the same method as interiors are (using 5s of each ink)… but allowing 10% tones of the inks would achieve these new colors too. On covers and interiors 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Aman619

[paqart]

On 7/1/2023 at 12:43 PM, Aman619 said:

‘Another yellow plate”.  Can you please explain further, or try to paste the actual quote?  CMYK included yellow, so a duplicate yellow adds nothing. Having said that, a more sunflower tone (on the orange side) would be a better mix in many tints than the basic lemony neon yellow used in CMYK.  But hard to believe DC would pay for 5 color printing!  That an extra cost to every job and most designers stick to the gamut (total number of shades achievable from CMY and K inks) available in CMYK

also most colors on covers are flat tones same as the interiors and stripped in the same method as interiors are (using 5s of each ink)… but allowing 10% tones of the inks would achieve these new colors too. On covers and interiors 

I now have two insiders, Gregory Wright and Mark Evanier, saying the same thing. A fifth plate was added to covers to enhance colors for a brief period at DC. So, whether it makes sense to anyone or not, that is what they say. The evidence is the covers themselves, which are noticeably different from covers before and after. The difference is consistent with the explanation. Therefore, I believe the explanation. 

The quote from Mark is the full quote. I omitted nothing. I communicated with Gregory about this years ago, back when I still had Facebook, so I no longer have access to the original mesaage. As I recall, the extra plate was black but it was used to add half tone black in addition to the pure black lines that the other black plate was used for.

[Aman619]

Generally, the halftones of black are just stripped onto the same black plate as the solid areas/lines.  Same for all the other inks.  Adding black in light shades definitely achieved the gloomy shades on the DC horror covers.  The printers may have been wary about these lighter shades plugging up while making sure a full solid black was being laid down.

…but a pressman would best answer the why for paying for 2 different black plates 

 

[Yorick]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:43 AM, Aman619 said:

a duplicate yellow adds nothing.

"Nothing"?  Maybe subtle, but certainly not "nothing", no?  I can envision something like that adding some extra glow to the color.

[Aman619]

Nothing for the buck.  The difference in yellow is not that much is what I’m saying.  Like ordering a higher weave for your sheets for an extra cost you feel,isn’t worth it. Some thing like that