Heritage Jan 11-14, 2024 Auction 3 3

[Fischb1]

On 1/15/2024 at 6:01 PM, 1classics said:

It’s tricky, and the easy answer in most cases would be yes… but I say but here simply because the latter part of the book where Lim took over seems to be some of the most desirable pages amongst collectors. The battle issue for instance is #4, Perez only did the opening battle page with Thanos vs Hulk / Drax and the rest went to Lim. And some very important context/content pages are in #5 and of course #6, so as much as we’d say Perez over Lim in all other cases, perhaps not for IG. 🤷‍♂️

Many of the most expensive IG pages to sell, both publicly and privately, are Perez. In general Perez does outsell Lim, but there some great Lim battles and DPSs in the later books. But I've seen some Perez pages from IG sell for staggering amounts privately. 

[KingOfRulers]

I'd say without a doubt Perez > Lim. Even as it pertains to Infinity Gauntlet. At least for me. In my opinion, Infinity Gauntlet is peak Perez. Some will say his original Avengers run. Some will say Wonder Woman. For me, it's Infinity Gauntlet. The fact that such a great artist is, in my opinion, at the top of his career while on such an iconic storyline makes it even more amazing.

Certainly, with the progression of the story Lim got to illustrate the epic battle scenes that Perez didn't get to illustrate. It's really too bad when you think about it. Imagine what those would've looked like with Perez at the helm. That's not to put Lim's work down. Lim did a wonderful job on them. But I prefer Perez, and daydream about what could've been!

For many years I wanted a Perez Infinity Gauntlet page. That was to be the main piece of my entire collection. I've bid on many of them throughout the years. I can't say I had the same desire for a Lim Infinity Gauntlet page. Would I like to own a Lim Infinity Gauntlet page? Yes. But in all those years of bidding on a Perez IG page, I don't think I've ever bid on a Lim IG page. I've never lusted after a Lim IG page. 

 

[Fischb1]

Luckily for the fans, Perez and Lim are/were both fantastic artists. I like to think of Lim as more of a crowdpleasing shiny cosmic bubbly style (that I loved as a kid and still love now), and Perez as a more serious and deep artistic style. 

 

[1classics]

On 1/15/2024 at 3:12 PM, Fischb1 said:

Many of the most expensive IG pages to sell, both publicly and privately, are Perez. In general Perez does outsell Lim, but there some great Lim battles and DPSs in the later books. But I've seen some Perez pages from IG sell for staggering amounts privately. 

Yeah I'm well aware of the market, though I'm also aware of private sales I can't mention much about due to the nature of what it is being "private" LOL. One of which was a recent Lim interior sale that was well into the six figures. Coming from someone who has both Perez and Lim IG art, I'm not biased to one over the other, and I too love Perez's line work and detail to his art, but again to answer Erik's original question, it's not clear cut Perez > Lim as far as value is concerned in this case. And again, not all, but some of the most desirable "battle" pages that most collectors want are obviously in the hand of Lim, since much of Perez's art in this series though beautiful aren't battle pages.

What would be more interesting is would issues 4-6 if in the hand of Perez vs Lim bring more money? I've never really thought of it, perhaps it would? Or is it a TOS 39 scenario where it doesn't really matter who does the art (within reason), due to the importance of the issue or series in this case? Kirby or Heck for Iron Man? Or if it were in Kirby's hand, do the Iron Man TOS 39 pages bring more? Probably not right? Though different being a 1st appearance, the analogy here in question pertains to artist importance, especially when we're talking about one of the most important series of the modern era. 

Now that I'm thinking about it more, perhaps I should've thrown another bid or two on the page you just won haha! 

[1classics]

On 1/15/2024 at 3:18 PM, KingOfRulers said:

I'd say without a doubt Perez > Lim. Even as it pertains to Infinity Gauntlet. At least for me. In my opinion, Infinity Gauntlet is peak Perez. Some will say his original Avengers run. Some will say Wonder Woman. For me, it's Infinity Gauntlet. The fact that such a great artist is, in my opinion, at the top of his career while on such an iconic storyline makes it even more amazing.

Certainly, with the progression of the story Lim got to illustrate the epic battle scenes that Perez didn't get to illustrate. It's really too bad when you think about it. Imagine what those would've looked like with Perez at the helm. That's not to put Lim's work down. Lim did a wonderful job on them. But I prefer Perez, and daydream about what could've been!

For many years I wanted a Perez Infinity Gauntlet page. That was to be the main piece of my entire collection. I've bid on many of them throughout the years. I can't say I had the same desire for a Lim Infinity Gauntlet page. Would I like to own a Lim Infinity Gauntlet page? Yes. But in all those years of bidding on a Perez IG page, I don't think I've ever bid on a Lim IG page. I've never lusted after a Lim IG page. 

 

Sounds like you should've thrown your hat in on yesterday's Perez IG page! Like I said before maybe not the best of Thanos imagery, but it still would be a nice entry level expample for under $10k seemed like great value. 

I would imagine the next page coming to auction, which is far more dynamic will bring far more money, but then again, you never know these days. Get that dry powder ready LOL!

[KingOfRulers]

On 1/15/2024 at 7:11 PM, 1classics said:

Sounds like you should've thrown your hat in on yesterday's Perez IG page! Like I said before maybe not the best of Thanos imagery, but it still would be a nice entry level expample for under $10k seemed like great value. 

I would imagine the next page coming to auction, which is far more dynamic will bring far more money, but then again, you never know these days. Get that dry powder ready LOL!

No, thankfully I got my gem Perez IG page a few years ago. I'm glad I was able to cross that off the list! 

[Fischb1]

On 1/15/2024 at 7:05 PM, 1classics said:

Yeah I'm well aware of the market, though I'm also aware of private sales I can't mention much about due to the nature of what it is being "private" LOL. One of which was a recent Lim interior sale that was well into the six figures. Coming from someone who has both Perez and Lim IG art, I'm not biased to one over the other, and I too love Perez's line work and detail to his art, but again to answer Erik's original question, it's not clear cut Perez > Lim as far as value is concerned in this case. And again, not all, but some of the most desirable "battle" pages that most collectors want are obviously in the hand of Lim, since much of Perez's art in this series though beautiful aren't battle pages.

What would be more interesting is would issues 4-6 if in the hand of Perez vs Lim bring more money? I've never really thought of it, perhaps it would? Or is it a TOS 39 scenario where it doesn't really matter who does the art (within reason), due to the importance of the issue or series in this case? Kirby or Heck for Iron Man? Or if it were in Kirby's hand, do the Iron Man TOS 39 pages bring more? Probably not right? Though different being a 1st appearance, the analogy here in question pertains to artist importance, especially when we're talking about one of the most important series of the modern era. 

Now that I'm thinking about it more, perhaps I should've thrown another bid or two on the page you just won haha! 

A lim interior for well into 6 figures? Are you talking about the 4 page deal? 

[MAR1979]

On 1/15/2024 at 3:24 PM, Kryptic1 said:

I thought the 3 Bagley Spider-Man pages on Sunday were cheap given how expensive his Spidey art has gotten.  On the other hand, this Superboy cover selling for $40k is absolutely insane.  I realize there are some crazy Legion collectors out there, but even $10k for this seems like too much.

40K for that???  There was a saying years ago from some collectors about being Crazy but not Stupid appears the latter no longer applies

Looks like a cheap fake stat job as well.

[jjonahjameson11]

I like both Lim and Perez equally with regard to their artwork and I don't have any stake regarding which artists' work on IG should fetch more attention/money.

Its been roughly 30 years since IG was published, and I remember it was a huge event.  People were talking about it at their LCS, at conventions, at store signings, etc.  So I'm certain that folks here remember that it was a big deal.  Given the passage of time, memories tend to fade and some folks may have forgotten that there was a huge build-up to Infinity Gauntlet, starting with the return of Starlin to Marvel on Silver Surfer and its epic storyline whereby we see the return of Thanos, Drax, Gamora, Pip, Warlock, etc, all the way to the two-part Thanos Quest, which set the stage for Infinity Gauntlet.

Starlin's artistic collaborator throughout his return on Silver Surfer and Thanos Quest was none other than Ron Lim.  He was integral in the success of illustrating Starlin's vision for the return of the 'Cosmic Gang' in addition to a rather seemless transition on IG when George had to leave.

Long story short, I feel that Ron Lim sometimes doesn't receive the credit due for contributing to the success of Starlin's cosmic opera, and is often overlooked as such, but I still remember it well 

[Fischb1]

On 1/16/2024 at 10:21 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

I like both Lim and Perez equally with regard to their artwork and I don't have any stake regarding which artists' work on IG should fetch more attention/money.

Its been roughly 30 years since IG was published, and I remember it was a huge event.  People were talking about it at their LCS, at conventions, at store signings, etc.  So I'm certain that folks here remember that it was a big deal.  Given the passage of time, memories tend to fade and some folks may have forgotten that there was a huge build-up to Infinity Gauntlet, starting with the return of Starlin to Marvel on Silver Surfer and its epic storyline whereby we see the return of Thanos, Drax, Gamora, Pip, Warlock, etc, all the way to the two-part Thanos Quest, which set the stage for Infinity Gauntlet.

Starlin's artistic collaborator throughout his return on Silver Surfer and Thanos Quest was none other than Ron Lim.  He was integral in the success of illustrating Starlin's vision for the return of the 'Cosmic Gang' in addition to a rather seemless transition on IG when George had to leave.

Long story short, I feel that Ron Lim sometimes doesn't receive the credit due for contributing to the success of Starlin's cosmic opera, and is often overlooked as such, but I still remember it well 

Also, Ron Lim is a super sweet class act. If you've ever met him, you know he's very kind. Obviously, Perez was too. Two absolute winners. 

[KingOfRulers]

Yes, Ron is definitely a very nice guy in addition to being a great artist.  

He did a wonderful Galactus for my convention sketchbook:

[1classics]

On 1/15/2024 at 4:32 PM, Fischb1 said:

A lim interior for well into 6 figures? Are you talking about the 4 page deal? 

Hi yeah though as mentioned due to the privacy aspect of things, I can't really speak much of it more here. And no not the "Last 4" if that's what you're referring to, that private sale happened nearly 2 years ago and considering even in today's market, was a fairly good deal considering the content etc. But before we continue to turn this thread into an IG topic, I'll steer things back to the topic at hand. Let's try to connect separately outside of here if you'd like to discuss further.

Overall strong results and equally strong auction, We tend to highlight some of the unexpected or outlier results, though here are a few pieces that seemed "fair" pricing or perhaps slipped between the cracks. And agreed it was mainly on Sunday, Friday seemed very strong. I may be partial to my overall "watch" view and collecting style, but these seemed fairly good deals. I usually scroll thru and read everyone's thoughts, but now with a little more time on my hands I thought I'd throw my 2c...

As already noted:

Perez IG #1 PG (last results for an IG Thanos pg were north of $20k+)

Starlin Cap Marvel #25 end page for under $6k seemed like good value with Marvell and Rick Jones on the page and setting up the Thanos Saga in issue #26.

Addtl "Deals"?:

Joe Mad X-Men #336 DPS Apocolypse sold for $4.6k, I spoke to my rep and a few others who had much higher expectations for this piece. 

JSC Moon Knight / Spidey #9 cover, is an iconic cover used as TPB & limited print. (was a no sale in previous auction at $10-12k+ range, '17 sold for $6.5k via HA), $7.5k this auction!

Gibbons Supes & WW Annuals painted end-papers / inside covers sold for $3.6k-$3.8k (might not be Watchmen, but painted Gibbons art seemed like a good deal from this era)

Jim Lee PWJ #1 splash $12k may seem like a lot, but this is a #1 issue and cover quality splash, I could've seen this going for $15k+

Miller DK related illustration @ $11.4k, large art 19x25, there's another version from same period that was used for Tec 1000 published cover, this "unused version" originally sold in '16 for $12k! Miller DK market has certainly moved up a lot since then, with similar size art on similar board selling for $20-30k+ over the last couple years.

Starlin Surfer / Warlock Resurrection #4 Mephisto Warlock splash, product of a resale, was recently on sale by Tri-State for $4.5k? Sold last at Clink for $2100 in '21, $600 result!

I'm probably missing a few in between, but we can see the recycled art or being in the marketplace affecting overall value of some pieces? It's hard when there's 500+ lots on one day and we're all attempting to hold dry powder for future lots and or auctions. Again, this is more of my collecting style and watch list, so it may not speak to some of you, and I'm not mentioning the other 80+ lots I was watching because they far exceeded my expectations where I was simply a spectator. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16 by 1classics

[RICKYBOBBY]

I thought this went a bit low originally and now I see it’s already resold. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/story-page/barry-windsor-smith-marvel-comics-presents-76-story-page-8-wolverine-weapon-x-original-art-marvel-1991-/a/7358-91021.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

[1classics]

On 1/16/2024 at 5:07 PM, RICKYBOBBY said:

I thought this went a bit low originally and now I see it’s already resold. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/story-page/barry-windsor-smith-marvel-comics-presents-76-story-page-8-wolverine-weapon-x-original-art-marvel-1991-/a/7358-91021.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Yeah I only highlighted a few lots on Sunday that I thought were “deals”. 

This one was an interesting one as I was in the running, thru my cut in at $23k, so $27.6k, played it all wrong. I wanted to stay under $30k and with the next bids, my next bid would’ve been $33k+. In retrospect, seeing the offers post auction it would have been worth it going the extra mile. 🤣

I think the issue for me and a few others was this was a good example but not great. But then again if Logan was in your face and throughout the page or at least one more panel it would be quite a bit more. Instead, Logan is at the bottom cut off, but the content was important with him awakening. At the end of the day it appears it was a good deal. Can’t win ‘em all..congrats to the consignor, the high bidder and now the new buyer!

Edited January 17 by 1classics

[Will_K]

Felix just posted the link to the LIVE post mortem tonight with David Mandel himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJS3HkFUyPs

https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/380927-new-podcastvideo-from-felix-comic-art-updated-1317/?do=findComment&comment=13067535

 

[inovrmihd]

On 1/15/2024 at 8:24 AM, stinkininkin said:

Hey Byrne Xmen experts! Might the Xmen 137 page have underperformed a bit? I don't know that market as well as some, but the 81k price seems a tad light? Also thinking about it next to the DD 181 page at 156k--nice pages from big time key issues--but about half the price for the Xmen page with all the main characters, and the DD page that's Bullseye only. I know, kinda apples and oranges in some regards, but the comparison interests me.

I have a few Byrne X-men pages and bought one recently at Heritage (it’s on my CAF page), but I hardly consider myself an expert.  As someone in the market for another one though and a potential buyer, I was turned off by the yellowing word balloons.  Absent that issue, I would have bid higher, as otherwise I think it’s a fantastic page.
 

Regarding the DD 181 page, how would you compare it to the one in the upcoming auction?  I don’t own a Miller DD page but am actively looking for one and was very tempted on the 181 page.  It doesn't have DD in it, but is that really what fans of Miller’s work are looking for?  I always thought it was the surrounding characters that he had the most profound impact on (Bullseye, Kingpin, Punisher, and obviously Electra and Stick).  Yeah, ideally I would want DD interacting with them, but if they are “artistically equal”, does a Bullseye only page rank below a DD only page (and I am leaving out the 181 bonus points)?  Also, and I don’t have the proper words for this but hopefully you get my point, but isn’t the shading, motion and black and white contrasts that are on this page, especially the 4th panel, what made Miller’s work so groundbreaking?  Very interested in what an expert has to say (Gene, anyone else feel free to chime in).  

[Silver Surfer]

Both your X-Men #113 and #116 pages are epic.

[Xatari]

On 1/16/2024 at 8:47 AM, Fischb1 said:

Also, Ron Lim is a super sweet class act. If you've ever met him, you know he's very kind. Obviously, Perez was too. Two absolute winners. 

I was traveling for work all week and just now catching up.  I couldn't agree more.  Two fantastic human beings.  It is awesome to cheer for these two titans.

[Ted_L]

On 1/16/2024 at 10:17 AM, MAR1979 said:

40K for that???  There was a saying years ago from some collectors about being Crazy but not Stupid appears the latter no longer applies

Looks like a cheap fake stat job as well.

Belated comment on the Cardy Superboy #197 cover -- that was the first issue where the Legion took over the book from Superboy, so for Legion fans, it's basically the #1 issue of their longest running series.  This is equivalent to Incredible Hulk #102 or Captain America #100 -- a first issue without the #1 on it.  I guess I'm a big Legion fan, because that price didn't seem so crazy to me and it's also a nice image by Cardy.

I agree that the replacement stat is ugly!  Hopefully the new owner will have that redone by a professional.

[MAR1979]

On 1/20/2024 at 11:20 PM, Ted_L said:

Belated comment on the Cardy Superboy #197 cover -- that was the first issue where the Legion took over the book from Superboy, so for Legion fans, it's basically the #1 issue of their longest running series.  This is equivalent to Incredible Hulk #102 or Captain America #100 -- a first issue without the #1 on it.  I guess I'm a big Legion fan, because that price didn't seem so crazy to me and it's also a nice image by Cardy.

I agree that the replacement stat is ugly!  Hopefully the new owner will have that redone by a professional.

Thanks Ted! I did not realize the historical Comic significance. So much for my being a DC expert :).  Now with correct context the hammer price does not seem out of line.

Perhaps the new owner will splurge for stats that do not appear to have been created by a small child using a 1990 era fax machine ?

 

Edited January 21 by MAR1979