ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:04 PM, sledgehammer said:

Significant money. Am I wrong, or did the custom label program end?

 

@gpanalysis

To answer your question though, special labels didn't end, just licensing for the new year on a different batch of newer designed labels, or that's the way it's been since inception of special labels.

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:11 PM, Timed said:

There is no way the submitter would sue. Blatant fraud has taken place here and he would be laughed at on the way to jail.

Well, the NM 98 that was swapped did not have a custom label on the new slab, so... 

oof, then it probably won't stay private if cgc replies, but idk still if theyll refer to that specific seller other than to say , we've located the issue and are moving towards resolution....

They might not give away "how it happened" is what I mean, to avoid newcomers fraudsters.

I can't spin wheels on it, as I not that smart

 

[VintageComics]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:13 PM, sledgehammer said:

The inner sleeve, from a lower graded book, was put into a slab from a higher graded book.

You're stating this as a fact when in fact, it's entirely speculation at this point.

Everyone is just guessing right now, 

[Sigur Ros]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:56 PM, VintageComics said:

What is everyone's psychotic obsession with surgical control of every conversation?

 

This you?

 

[sledgehammer]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:11 PM, Timed said:

There is no way the submitter would sue. Blatant fraud has taken place here and he would be laughed at on the way to jail.

Well, the NM 98 that was swapped did not have a custom label on the new slab, so... 

There was no reason for him to pay for a special label, on the garbage book that he put into the MJ 9.8 new slab. He probably put the custom label, on the book that he took out of the old MJ 9.8 slab. Lol

That’s the one that is in a legitimate 9.8 slab, and he gets to sell that one too.

[VintageComics]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:24 PM, Sigur Ros said:

This you?

 

Absolutely. You're welcome. 

[Mikey C]

The two that are on his eBay now, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were high grade newsstands that he married a MJ insert into and then sent in raw to be graded. There would be zero photographic evidence of this, unlike his slab swapping technique. 

[sledgehammer]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:35 PM, Mikey C said:

The two that are on his eBay now, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were high grade newsstands that he married a MJ insert into and then sent in raw to be graded. There would be zero photographic evidence of this, unlike his slab swapping technique. 

looking at GPA, there have been a TON of lower grade, MJ sales, in recent months.

[ThothAmon]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:35 PM, Mikey C said:

The two that are on his eBay now, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were high grade newsstands that he married a MJ insert into and then sent in raw to be graded. There would be zero photographic evidence of this, unlike his slab swapping technique. 

No one is alleging anything was married. He never touched the books only removed the inner well from a lesser grade MJ and slid into a cracked higher grade empty slab. 

[comicwiz]

Oh boy. 

So when people say "inner sleave", they are referring to the Inner well? Correct?

That inner well is recesssed, and sealed in a manner where tampering of any kind would stick out like a sore thumb.

The claim or allegation being made is the person took a lower grade book (let's say a 9.4 or 9.6), cracked it out of the hard case enclosure or slab, still keeping the inner well sealed, and swapped it into another hard case enclosure or slab that already had a 9.8 label with the same s/n. 

This is still something that most of us are probably still trying to reconcile since the outer holder is also supposed to be tamper evident. 

The other assumption is this person figured out a way to subvert the reholder process CGC uses. Unless he's got slab sealing equipment and home and is just cranking these out on his own.

This is the gist of it, right?

Edited December 20, 2023 by comicwiz

[Mikey C]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:41 PM, ThothAmon said:

No one is alleging anything was married. He never touched the books only removed the inner well from a lesser grade MJ and slid into a cracked higher grade empty slab. 

I completely understand this. I’m just saying if he was swapping out inner wells, which we’ve all seen to be true, what would stop him from also committing a different type of fraud to raw books. As people have pointed out, the two for sale on his eBay LOOK like 9.8s and he left those up after pulling down the Hulk 340 that was recently for sale. 

[ThothAmon]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:44 PM, comicwiz said:

Oh boy. 

So when people say "inner sleave", they are referring to the Inner well? Correct?

That inner well is recesssed, and sealed in a manner where tampering of any kind would stick out like a sore thumb.

The claim or allegation being made is the person took a lower grade book (let's say a 9.4 or 9.6), cracked it out of the hard outside case, keeping the inner well sealed, and swapped it into a hard clamshell holder that already had a 9.8 label with the s/n. 

This is still something that most of us are probably still trying to reconcile since the outer holder is also supposed to be tamper evident. 

The other assumption is this person figured out a way to subvert the reholder process CGC uses. Unless he's got slab sealing equipment and home and is just cranking these out on his own.

This is the gist of it, right?

Except he definitely didn’t reseal himself as he received new labels with Mark Jewelers on them. 

[Gator Guru]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:52 PM, VintageComics said:

 

What facts do you base this belief on?

Um. Tough bananas if you don't like people asking questions? 

They do check reholders and they have a right to. I have had to pay for a press on a reholder and I also had cgc damage a book on a reholder and offer me a credit because of it. 
 

Reholdering should be easy but when humans, that can error,  are involved things get messed up.

There are those that refuse to send in a high $$ book because of the risk involved.

[ADAMANTIUM]

I'm sure someone will, but if that secret wars 8 mj ends I'd like to know how bidding went...

I vaguely remember someone mentioning that still being for sale... 🤔

[comicwiz]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:46 PM, ThothAmon said:

Except he definitely didn’t reseal himself as he received new labels with Mark Jewelers on them. 

Based on what is being alleged by most involved in the discussion is it's concievable that he is claiming the MJ insert notation was missed, is sending the alleged lower grade example which has an MJ insert, and CGC is simply accepting this submitters word, and just reholdering it, generating a new label with the notation and giving him a shiny new slab with an overgraded book inside?

Edited January 5 by comicwiz

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:48 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm sure someone will, but if that secret wars 8 mj ends I'd like to know how bidding went...

I vaguely remember someone mentioning that still being for sale... 🤔

Ends in 2.5 hours….

[ThothAmon]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:49 PM, comicwiz said:

So then it's concievable that he is claiming the MJ insert notation was missed, is sending the alleged lower grade example which has an MJ insert, and CGC is simply accepting this submitters word, and just reholdering it, generating a new label with the notation and giving him a shiny new slab with an overgraded book inside?

Exactly. Who’s to say how much or how little attention the CGC crew paid but the very existence of the labels speak for themselves. Res ipsa loquitar. 

[Mikey C]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:48 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm sure someone will, but if that secret wars 8 mj ends I'd like to know how bidding went...

I vaguely remember someone mentioning that still being for sale... 🤔

It’s currently at $5,599 with 33 bids and just over 2 hours left. It’s a super clean looking book but who knows….

[sledgehammer]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:49 PM, comicwiz said:

So then it's concievable that he is claiming the MJ insert notation was missed, is sending the alleged lower grade example which has an MJ insert, and CGC is simply excepting this submitters word, and just reholdering it, generating a new label with the notation and giving him a shiny new outer holder?

that's not my opinion. I think that he is using a sonic welder, on everything that he sends to CGC. on the MJ insert books, he probably just noted to CGC that he thinks they may have missed the MJ insert, because it can be seen in the book, even though it is not noted in the grading notes. 

I think that the number of times he has noted that to CGC, is far lower than the number of times that he sent in lower graded books, in higher graded slabs, and asked for new custom labels on the higher graded slabs.

then he also submits the higher graded books, that were originally in those higher graded slabs. maybe he also asks for custom labels on those.

[Timed]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:24 PM, sledgehammer said:

There was no reason for him to pay for a special label, on the garbage book that he put into the MJ 9.8 new slab. He probably put the custom label, on the book that he took out of the old MJ 9.8 slab. Lol

That’s the one that is in a legitimate 9.8 slab, and he gets to sell that one too.

The reason why I mentioned that the NM 98 MJ 9.8 didn’t have a custom label is because one theory floating around believes that the custom labels play a role in how these shenanigans have been happening.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Timed