ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[sledgehammer]

On 12/19/2023 at 4:57 PM, GDN said:

I've attached a few of the images from GoCollect.  This is the 9.8 Newsstand with same cert # 0180388004

 

 

"Case" closed. Clearly, a different book, again.

 

[Mikey C]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:57 PM, GDN said:

I've attached a few of the images from GoCollect.  This is the 9.8 Newsstand with same cert # 0180388004

Thanks for this. It is indeed a different book so here's another he swapped out. The wrap is different between the copies. Space above the trade dress. Lower staple is clearly in different spots. Wow.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mikey C
spelling

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:02 PM, GDN said:

No one knows if the seller can reseal.  He doesn't need to.  Just damage the case (smash up a corner), claim it partially popped open when dropped and send it in.

I know, that was my point, the failure is undoubtedly on the CGC side. the seller found a loophole that CGC doesn't verify against

[sledgehammer]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:05 PM, Mikey C said:

The wrap is different between the copies. Space above the trade dress. Lower staple is clearly in different spots. Wow.

No doubt. Bottom of the shoe on Domino as well.

Now it's a clear pattern.

[ThothAmon]

[comicwiz]

Surface observation, but in those instances where a 'different' appearing book was distinguished, with artwork being in an ever so slightly different position, and often extending outside the edges, can we rule out micro-trimming? It seems on that NM 98, that soft blc could have benefitted from cutting dominoes foot off slightly. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by comicwiz

[GDN]

Just 5hrs left to bid on his Secret Wars 8 MJ....I'm sure it is legit...right? 

Although that one actually looks like it could be a 9.8.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285600398199?hash=item427f1c3b77:g:Th8AAOSwTGRldTw6

[ThothAmon]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:16 PM, comicwiz said:

Surface observation, but in those instances where a 'different' appearing book was distinguished, with artwork being in a different position, often extending outside the edges, can we rule out micro-trimming? It seems on that NM 98, that soft blc could have benefitted from cutting dominoes foot off slightly. 

Not this. The higher grade inner welled comics are being replaced with previously encapsulated CGC untampered with inner well lower grade substitutes and sent in for reholdering/custom label. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:16 PM, comicwiz said:

Surface observation, but in those instances where a 'different' appearing book was distinguished, with artwork being in an ever so slightly different position, and often extending outside the edges, can we rule out micro-trimming? It seems on that NM 98, that soft blc could have benefitted from cutting dominoes foot off slightly. 

Look at the bottom staple of the NM 98

 

[sledgehammer]

Can somebody tell the podcast duo that I found another one for them?

[Mikey C]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:24 PM, sledgehammer said:

Can somebody tell the podcast duo that I found another one for them?

please do share =)

[comicwiz]

Part of the issue I'm having is tracking chornoligical order. I would have arranged this myself, but the WEBP file format is throwing off the way I ordinarily can save images and juxtapose them for comparison. 

Can someone just place the dates as well as to when these were first tracked, and a notation on which is believed to have been swapped?

Not only for my benefit (as I can clearly see two seemingly different books sharing a s/n), but I can easily see someone dropping-in here not being able to track the different scans, from different sources/angles. Easy way for CGC to even say, we don't know what we're looking at for comparison.

Edited December 19, 2023 by comicwiz

[WestcoastDAVEngers]

On 12/19/2023 at 3:24 PM, sledgehammer said:

Can somebody tell the podcast duo that I found another one for them?

I'm looking at the pictures now, but I appreciate this find, the only image I could find was the one from Terrapeak and the resolution is so band (as are my eyes) but this is some damning evidence!

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 12/19/2023 at 2:52 PM, Gator Guru said:

Also, no definitive proof that this was not the same book.

 

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Although no evidence to the contrary ( as of yet), I’m finding  it hard to now believe that his currently listed MJ 9.8s are legit.

[GDN]

On 12/19/2023 at 3:52 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Although no evidence to the contrary ( as of yet), I’m finding  it hard to now believe that his currently listed MJ 9.8s are legit.

I'd certainly stay away from his MJ books.  The scam only makes him a profit if he swaps in a lower grade MJ.  His regular newsstands are likely true 9.8s as those are the ones he uses to get the case/CGC# and then sends them in RAW to get the new 9.8 and new CGC #.

However, I certainly would never support this guy by buying anything off him even the true 9.8 newsstands.

[Prince Namor]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:13 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Sure that many for 0.001% in what twenty or more years? What is the new rate of failure if we sized that down to the date at the start of this thread...

 

500 error books this year. Roughly.

I think 0.001% is more like "Bluto" Blutarsky's Grade Point Average.

If CGC is at 1%, which seems more in line, that's 100,000 over 20 years, or about 5000 a year. 

[Timed]

On 12/19/2023 at 4:57 PM, GDN said:

I've attached a few of the images from GoCollect.  This is the 9.8 Newsstand with same cert # 0180388004

There it is; this is in fact the nail in the coffin.

The submitter for the reholders needs to be contacted by the authorities ASAP.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:01 PM, Timed said:

There it is; this is in fact the nail in the coffin.

The submitter for the reholders needs to be contacted by the authorities ASAP.

If nothing else, CGC should be taking a look at his submission history.

[VintageComics]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:52 PM, Gator Guru said:

Sorry but knowing the issues CGC has given me with reholders I am not convinced this is a different book but then again I am more experienced with reholders and the overall CGC process then the “witch-hunters”

We're living in a time when 1+1 = 5. No wonder we can't have world peace. 

How can anyone say they're not the same books when they're TOTALLY DIFFERENT COPIES?

On 12/19/2023 at 6:00 PM, jsilverjanet said:

its funny that's its easier to believe the seller has a machine that can reseal but not believe CGC has an error in the way that they inspect/QC their books despite multiple threads/examples of CGC failures over the past 2-3 years

I don't recall a consensus by anyone that one was more likley than the other. Where did you read that?

On 12/19/2023 at 6:02 PM, GDN said:

Just damage the case (smash up a corner), claim it partially popped open when dropped and send it in.

A smashed corner on an outer case would almost certainly cause CGC to inspect the book for damage and notice the grade of the book didn't match the label. 

On 12/19/2023 at 5:49 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I will say the mess ups haven't been a lot as of late, that we know of or at least reported here.

How many people complain about quality control on this forum is meaningless. The only people that know the percentages are CGC.

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Everyone wants a perfect product but even in NASA a perfect product doesn't exist, so how many quality control problems per 1 million is considered OK?

Edited December 20, 2023 by VintageComics