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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,031 posts in this topic

skybolt

skybolt

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Posted (edited)

Thinking about all the logistics involved with this scam, I find it hard to believe that the seller is the only person involved in this scheme. Yes, this person is likely coordinating this stuff with CGC and selling the slabs, but I bet he has a couple of guys in the back room doing all the grunt work. There's no way this person could do all this at once without making mistakes earlier.

Edited by skybolt
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jcjames

jcjames

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On 12/22/2023 at 8:34 AM, Gonzimodo said:

.....Theoretically, all it takes is one solid 9.8 copy to generate as many 9.8 registry entries as he needs, at least until too much handling results in it no longer receiving a 9.8 grade.

Obviously, I can't verify that this is happening, but it seems possible. (shrug)

It only needs to be graded 9.8 once, then start the endless ME/reholder/Label-correction cycle where no regrades are needed.

 

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Gonzimodo

Gonzimodo

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On 12/22/2023 at 11:39 AM, jcjames said:

It only needs to be graded 9.8 once, then start the endless ME/reholder/Label-correction cycle where no regrades are needed.

 

No, I'm saying he can use the same copy to resubmit (as a raw) multiple times to get multiple registry numbers and 9.8 labels.  It obviously takes a lot of time, though.

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LDarkseid1

LDarkseid1

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On 12/22/2023 at 5:52 AM, Happy Noodle Boy said:

LOL. (CGC isn't "the world" of comics collecting by the way. A lot more people buy raw than slabbed.)

And you're misinterpreting what I wrote. I didn't say I want the grading companies to go under. (I actually don't want them to go under, because raw books are that much cheaper because of them.) I said that if they do go under, the hobby will be just fine.

What I wrote was, "The people who actually like comics beyond their monetary value as collectibles to be bought and flipped will all still be here, buying and reading."  And you're saying that you enjoy comics in other ways beyond their monetary value. So we're saying the same thing. So maybe untwist your knickers?

 

Literally your explanation just reinforced what I felt you meant 👍. You didn’t change my mind, still feel the elitism in your meaning and tone. No reason to persist, we would not be friends in the world of comics.

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LDarkseid1

LDarkseid1

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On 12/22/2023 at 8:20 AM, skybolt said:

Sorry to keep harking on this. Going back to what 9.9newsstand mentioned a few days ago, the seller had previously told him that he had connections at CGC, and that he calls in favors from someone higher up. Again, I'm not saying this CGC employee was getting kick back or was in on the scam. However, having someone in that position does help this seller launder some books. For example, if A.) the higher up CGC employee has had a good relationship with this guy for many years (again, nothing nefarious), and B.) believes there's zero chance someone can open a CGC case without detection, they could've potentially believed this guy was on the up and up with his constant complaints. All he had to do was call the CGC employee and say your guys screwed up again with my submission and forgot to give me a Mark Jeweler or Newsstand designation. If the CGC employee trusted this guy and wanted to make sure they didn't lose a valuable customer, they would A.) likely not check if he was the original submitter of this book and B.) tell a much lower level employee to fix this situation promptly and add the designations via reholdering.

This relationship would also come into play with previously green labeled books being sent into grading with a married insert. If an experienced CGC grader was able to detect it, especially on multiple books, the higher up employee would ease their minds and say don't worry about it. This guy is a long time submitter and sometimes he buys books missing pieces unknowingly. This preferential treatment would ultimately not raise suspicion company wide. If the seller got the blue label designation on these books, then he would sell them. If he got a green label, then he likely tried to grade the book again or just use it for switcheroo purposes.

You always trust the word of a known fraudster? I take anything that guy says with the tiniest grain of salt until proof is shown.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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On 12/22/2023 at 9:40 AM, Gonzimodo said:

No, I'm saying he can use the same copy to resubmit (as a raw) multiple times to get multiple registry numbers and 9.8 labels.  It obviously takes a lot of time, though.

Wow. That's crazy, but I can see it.

200w.gif.1c0a2a7b28ab5a4297d4893d3821b60a.gif

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LDarkseid1

LDarkseid1

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On 12/22/2023 at 6:09 AM, RonS2112 said:

You know, equating the demise of CGC with "watching the world burn" is the kind of thinking that fostered an environment in which this scam was a lucrative venture in the first place.  There are PLENTY of us who exist quite happily within this hobby without needing a single slab in our collections.

And craziest notion, but there are MANY others of us who exist just as happy enjoying the service CGC provides. Amazing how that works both ways, but I don’t judge the other side 👍. Please, feel free to keep enjoying whatever brings love in your heart in this community. Amazing it can actually go both ways. 

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mephistopheles

mephistopheles

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On 12/22/2023 at 12:38 PM, skybolt said:

Thinking about all the logistics involved with this scam, I find it hard to believe that the seller is the only person involved in this scheme. Yes, this person is likely coordinating this stuff with CGC and selling the slabs, but I bet he a has a couple of guys in the back room doing all the grunt work. There's no way this person could do all this at once without making mistakes earlier.

I am skeptical that anyone at CGC is knowingly involved. I think his story that he calls in favors from CGC is just deflection from his scamming. And we don't know that he hasn't made mistakes.

I asked earlier if anyone submitted reslab that got regraded lower. No response. So I am 95% sure they are not thoroughly examining re-holders.

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Stefan_W

Stefan_W

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On 12/22/2023 at 11:40 AM, Gonzimodo said:

No, I'm saying he can use the same copy to resubmit (as a raw) multiple times to get multiple registry numbers and 9.8 labels.  It obviously takes a lot of time, though.

Mentioned this before, but not all books that are originally graded as 9.8 come back as 9.8 during a resub. There are wrinkles to this process. 

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LDarkseid1

LDarkseid1

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On 12/22/2023 at 8:25 AM, jsilverjanet said:

I don't want CGC to fail/fold but I certainly want them to clean up their mess

look at the countless errors over the past few years, and their responses to those errors

it's kinda hard to be in their corner when they come across as not caring as much as the group here (as an example)

they are indifferent and lack a sense of urgency (with the past errors/instances) to fix their product/image

and why should they, people continue to send in books despite all the warning signs along the way

if they fail/fold, it will be because their own mistakes, their own wrong doing

 

I agree, a cleaning would be in order.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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On 12/22/2023 at 9:47 AM, LDarkseid1 said:

And craziest notion, but there are MANY others of us who exist just as happy enjoying the service CGC provides. Amazing how that works both ways, but I don’t judge the other side 👍. Please, feel free to keep enjoying whatever brings love in your heart in this community. Amazing it can actually go both ways. 

I kinda like my slabs. I built a whole shelving system to display them, if I had to switch to Mylars and Toploaders, it would leave an awkward space in-between the shelf spacing. C'mon CGC - clean it up!

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 12/22/2023 at 11:34 AM, Silver Surfer said:

Not directed at you but some of the apologist tone/comments being posted make me roll my eyes. There is no sugar coating this, assume it’s much worse than what has been shown in this thread. 

There is not a single person in this thread who has sugar coated this problem.

I'm just trying to put some real life perspective in here as some seem to have lost all sense of it. 

With that, I'm out for a bit. I look forward to reading 30 new pages when I'm back! 

 

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