ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Timed]

On 12/23/2023 at 8:11 AM, agamoto said:

 

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I've highlighted pictures that likely show our man, zaneglor/briva3.

[Buzzetta]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:14 AM, paqart said:

Now that you mention it, you're right. In my original collection from the 1970's, my Avengers #1 had tape, and I had at least 5-8 Golden Age comics (early Superman/Action/WF) that had color added (added badly). I don't remember the comic any more, but can still see this 3/4" long brushstroke of non-matching purple paint on a cover.

Back then, if a comic was graded "good" or less, that kind of thing was almost expected.

CGC reconsidered how tape was figured into the grade on a book until around ten years ago. (I think ten give or take a year?)  What happened, was that they realized that certain people were adding modern tape to take advantage of the loophole in the grading system as to how tape applied many decades ago was considered in regard to some Golden Age and Silver Age books. 

 

[Buzzetta]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:00 AM, Silver Surfer said:

Your AI thread just got locked. 

I umm might have to see that... 

[mephistopheles]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:15 PM, Mdesimone said:

 

This is the seller I bought from in Forrest hills

I couldn't find a match on gocollect of 8.0-9.0 purple/green. It's still possible he bought one outside of ebay in which case gc wouldn't capture it. It's also possible he swapped something like an 8.5 blue, but there are way too many blue sales to comb through. Hopefully it's legit.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:30 PM, Buzzetta said:

I umm might have to see that... 

Do I get double points, seeing as it's Christmas Buzz?

Not that I'm condoning the practice of course. It's very silly.  

 

[Buzzetta]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:33 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Do I get double points, seeing as it's Christmas Buzz?

Not that I'm condoning the practice of course. It's very silly.  

 

I umm have no idea why you are asking me if you get double points. 

[Mdesimone]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:33 PM, mephistopheles said:

I couldn't find a match on gocollect of 8.0-9.0 purple/green. It's still possible he bought one outside of ebay in which case gc wouldn't capture it. It's also possible he swapped something like an 8.5 blue, but there are way too many blue sales to comb through. Hopefully it's legit.

Thanks for checking 

[trademarkcomics]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:19 AM, VintageComics said:

Every mountain has to start with a grain of sand first. 

Speculation is where the discussion loses the trail and you start building the wrong mountain. Focus on building the right mountain. 

How can you tell that the book in question is accurately graded and that the area around the staples is not production from a grainy picture when I can't?

If you've been grading for 30 years you should know that ASM #129's are RIFE with staple issues. Here are accurately graded 9.0 #129's with staple issues I quickly pulled off of Heritage. 

Both books have relatively large staple issues. Using your logic, these books would be automatic fails. 

Let's stick to facts. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/bronze-age-1970-1979-/superhero/the-amazing-spider-man-129-marvel-1974-cgc-vf-nm-90-off-white-to-white-pages/a/122213-17057.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515#

https://comics.ha.com/itm/bronze-age-1970-1979-/superhero/the-amazing-spider-man-129-marvel-1974-cgc-vf-nm-90-white-pages/a/122149-11159.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515#

My issue is not with whether you're right or wrong, it's your need to "moderate" me by calling me "ignorant" just because I have a differing opinion from yours(and I often disagree with CGC's grades). I would say that your reaction to my post would need to be "moderated" before the content of my post would have needed to be. I get it, your blood is up over all of this. Don't take it out on me...

[Jaylam]

After reading and following this tread for the past week, it has served as a reminder to me of the lengths some people will go perpetuate a scam and defraud people, and this is just comic books, what do you think is happening in the larger world where real money, lives and governments may be a stake? Unscrupulous behavior and corruption are rampant and is a sad statement on the state of humanity and there are very few gatekeepers that stand in the way of that corruption. Like the old adage goes, "rust never sleeps".

[VintageComics]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:28 PM, Buzzetta said:

CGC reconsidered how tape was figured into the grade on a book until around ten years ago. (I think ten give or take a year?)  What happened, was that they realized that certain people were adding modern tape to take advantage of the loophole in the grading system as to how tape applied many decades ago was considered in regard to some Golden Age and Silver Age books. 

 

Not an accurate representation of how it went down.

CGC didn't realize it. CGC knew it was happening and condoned the practice initially. 

CGC used to factor in the discussions on these forums to much greater measure than they do now. CGC responded to the discussion on tape ON THESE VERY FORUMS and it was because of the discussion on these very forums that they changed CGC's grading standards on tape. 

It was because the collectors on these forums all agreed that tape was bad for books and that tape was being used through CGCs grading loophole to increase grades that CGC changed their stance on tape and started treating it differently. It was these forums that changed CGC's minds. CGC didn't just wake up one morning and realize they'd made a mistake. 

[trademarkcomics]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:16 AM, Tnexus said:

Ten bucks says CGC's official response will be to put new certs on all reholders.

That would just make it harder to track...

 

...oh...

[EastEnd1]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:40 AM, Nick Furious said:

I'm thinking that a statement would have to quickly follow a thread lock.  As the lock itself would be a kind of statement and admission of awareness/activity. 

Unless this gets overly belligerent or contentious, I don't see a thread lock... the amazing detective work here is conveniently providing CGC with A LOT of useful information. [Plus they can't lock social media which is where this discussion would migrate to anyway.]  I'm sure CGC management is VERY concerned right now.

 

[trademarkcomics]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:41 AM, EastEnd1 said:

I'm sure CGC management is VERY concerned right now.

 

I dunno about that...I'm seeing it more like this right now in CGC's offices:

[Get Marwood & I]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:41 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I'm sure CGC management is VERY concerned right now.

 Live feed from the office:

 

[Buzzetta]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:37 PM, VintageComics said:

Not an accurate representation of how it went down.

CGC didn't realize it. CGC knew it was happening and condoned the practice initially. 

CGC used to factor in the discussions on these forums to much greater measure than they do now. CGC responded to the discussion on tape ON THESE VERY FORUMS and it was because of the discussion on these very forums that they changed CGC's grading standards on tape. 

It was because the collectors on these forums all agreed that tape was bad for books and that tape was being used through CGCs grading loophole to increase grades that CGC changed their stance on tape and started treating it differently. It was these forums that changed CGC's minds. CGC didn't just wake up one morning and realize they'd made a mistake. 

See the definition of "reconsidered". 

Carry on though, I do not want to interrupt you while you are "trying to moderate"  . 

[paqart]

I still think "briva3" is a clue to the guy's name. My guess is that it is something like "B. RivaXXXXX". So, we're talking a Ben, Brian, Byron, Bob, etc., plus a last name that either is "Riva" or starts with "Riva".

[trademarkcomics]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:44 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

 Live feed from the office:

 

You upstaged me...

 

...again.

[VintageComics]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:36 PM, trademarkcomics said:

My issue is not with whether you're right or wrong, it's your need to "moderate" me by calling me "ignorant" just because I have a differing opinion from yours(and I often disagree with CGC's grades). I would say that your reaction to my post would need to be "moderated" before the content of my post would have needed to be. I get it, your blood is up over all of this. Don't take it out on me...

Why would my blood be up? I genuinely don't care which way this scam discussion goes. I'll be fine no either way. 

I didn't call you ignorant. I stated this:

On 12/23/2023 at 11:58 AM, VintageComics said:

This is not true, it's stated out of ignorance and it's this sort of speculation that is wholly unproductive.

I said you stated something out of ignorance. If it wasn't out of ignorance, what was it? Were you just making things up?

I then gave you two clear examples of much worse copies of ASM #129 in the same grade, and instead of admitting you might be wrong, you doubled down and turned it back on me.

Good job, detective. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by VintageComics

[trademarkcomics]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:46 AM, VintageComics said:

Why would my blood be up? I genuinely don't care which way this scam discussion goes. I'll be fine no either way. 

I didn't call you ignorant. I stated this:

I said you stated something out of ignorance. If it wasn't out of ignorance, what was it?

Where you just making things up?

I then gave you two clear examples of much worse copies of ASM #129 in the same grade, and instead of admitting you might be wrong, you doubled down and turned it back on me.

Good job, detective. 

I think my timing might be better with this gif this time...

 

[sledgehammer]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:44 AM, paqart said:

I still think "briva3" is a clue to the guy's name. My guess is that it is something like "B. RivaXXXXX". So, we're talking a Ben, Brian, Byron, Bob, etc., plus a last name that either is "Riva" or starts with "Riva".

Interesting.

I found a "B. Riva", in Forest Hills NY,  but that one is 93 years old.