ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[namisgr]

He states at two different times, once after re-joining the two corners together and again in his finishing summary that the plastic shows signs of the separation and prying apart.  He categorized it as subtle, but detectable.

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:05 PM, namisgr said:

This was informative, thanks for posting it.  While he shows a relatively easy heat-based method for opening the top and removing the label, he also admits that upon careful inspection one sees damage to the plastic along the top near and at the two posts.

He's still new at it.

[migmtl76]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:05 PM, namisgr said:

This was informative, thanks for posting it.  While he shows a relatively easy heat-based method for opening the top and removing the label, he also admits that upon careful inspection one sees damage to the plastic along the top near and at the two posts.

The question is can it be done wirhout any visible danage

[bc]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:23 PM, Sigur Ros said:

He's still new at it.

+1

And he's already demonstrated 2 potential methods.

-bc

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/1/2024 at 2:18 PM, namisgr said:

He states at two different times, once after re-joining the two corners together and again in his finishing summary that the plastic shows signs of the separation and prying apart.  He categorized it as subtle, but detectable.

I am still waiting on all these supposed "easy to crack/switch" Youtube videos to surface. 

Bob, Nick Sirianni will learn to run the ball against a terrible team that is the worst against the run before we see the above.

 

You know Nick Sirianni is probably behind this comic book scam, I mean why not he scammed us with thinking the Eagles were a 10-1 team at one point.

 

 

 

[namisgr]

Don't get me started on the Birds, John.  

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/1/2024 at 2:40 PM, namisgr said:

Don't get me started on the Birds, John.  

For me its makes this thread looks like who cares.

Eagles Season > Garbage Newsstand Mark Jewelers insert common  80's junk.

I mean isnt the real crime seeing what people actually bid on such junk?

Spoiler

(everyone reading this learn how to take a joke in the New Year )

 

[comicwiz]

Post withheld.

Edited February 15 by comicwiz

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/1/2024 at 4:24 PM, migmtl76 said:

The question is can it be done wirhout any visible danage

To wit he says no, shows noticable subtle hints, but might fool some

 

On 1/1/2024 at 4:40 PM, namisgr said:

Don't get me started on the Birds, John.  

Hey they beat the cowboys (whom everyone is tired of hearing about across the universe ~ the Beatles) but how about them Rangers.

On 1/1/2024 at 4:44 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

For me its makes this thread looks like who cares.

Eagles Season > Garbage Newsstand Mark Jewelers insert common  80's junk.

I mean isnt the real crime seeing what people actually bid on such junk?

  Hide contents

(everyone reading this learn how to take a joke in the New Year )

 

Happy New Year 

[ADAMANTIUM]

Does no one take issue with the video that he ruined a hulk 181 book? Or was that a reprint

[drotto]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:44 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

To wit he says no, shows noticable subtle hints, but might fool some

 

Hey they beat the cowboys (whom everyone is tired of hearing about across the universe ~ the Beatles) but how about them Rangers.

Happy New Year 

If you are a Rangers fan, you are my new best friend here.

 

I think with practice, it would go from fooling some, to fooling most. 

 

Thinking the book was a reprint, he said earlier he only had a few cheap slabs to practice on. 

 

@comicwiz Just wow, impressive work.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/1/2024 at 4:54 PM, drotto said:

If you are a Rangers fan, you are my new best friend here.

Nolan Ryan joined the team when I was a kid, 5000 strike outs and a mound bloodied nose! Plus I'm local, so it was the team I got to see in person during formative years. Rock on! 

 

Edited January 1 by ADAMANTIUM

[Comics]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:32 AM, comicwiz said:

Just wanted to provide an update. The dataset has expanded to 1483 listings, as two different accounts have been confirmed by myself, based on patterns I examined that connected the two. This dataset is sure to expand with the information shared thus far on 4 other possible accounts. I prefer to make that determination independently simply because the notion of doubling my efforts (previously only 778 listings tied to this seller) is one that needs to be measured, particularly in order to make the best use of time.

I quickly scanned through some of the comments, and I just wanted to show this graphic below to reveal one of the patterns I analyze to help with pinpointing potential matches. The colour coded items in the list show the repeating pattern of items which were triggering a recorded sale. While you don't see the dates of these sales, you can see the number of the record set, and that gap should give some indication of passage in time between each time the same item, with the same certification number reappeared for sale, and was recorded as a past sale comparable. The record numbered 196 is the parting point, where I have found 6 Hulk 181's that went from green to blue (records 16-166), and also signifies where the activities of the the second seller alias begins (166-1242). This is where I am focusing my attention, however I am also needing to verify these other aliases and whether I will need to expand the data set. It's a lot of information to sift through, but the patterning has been a help, and I wanted most to share this because this shouldn't be recognized as just any dealer activity, this is someone with motivations to subvert the variables, not only in how we assign value commensure to grade, but how the market determines value based on comparables. Something that as an appraiser concerns me greatly, and which I expanded on recently in another post where I describe "immitation bubbles." This seller not only exploited a number of the variables in the system, but took it to a whole new level.

Below is a Worthpoint screenshot of the very first item from 2016 (number 1242 from the record set), which ties into the above intermingled listings between two different eBay seller accounts, and the red outlined slogan he's used throughout.

 

Amazing work!!

[Bo1983]

Hulk 180 is Wolverine’s first appearance anyway and if he was on the cover with only one panel in the book nobody would be talking about 181!

[MAR1979]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:05 PM, namisgr said:

This was informative, thanks for posting it.  While he shows a relatively easy heat-based method for opening the top and removing the label, he also admits that upon careful inspection one sees damage to the plastic along the top near and at the two posts.

I truly wonder which is worse:

(if) Tampering was not detectable thus CGC did not notice
or
(if) Tampering is detectable but CGC never bothered to look and re-slabbed over and over and over again...

Both are very worrisome.  The first is the scariest, the second represents complete and systemic incompetence over a rather long time-span.


P.S. I did not watch the youtube video. I'm now in my 3rd numerical year of a self imposed zero tolerance ban on "influencer" youtube video watching. Ban also includes Social Media Platforms. I do not count internet forums.

 

Edited January 2 by MAR1979

[wombat]

If what comes out of this is reholders continue without automatic regrade who would really be confident in CGC implementing a process change that would actually work? The same people who just can't figure out how to prevent books from going in slabs upside down and mixing up the wrong books in the wrong slabs. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/1/2024 at 3:47 PM, wombat said:

The same people who just can't figure out how to prevent books from going in slabs upside down and mixing up the wrong books in the wrong slabs. 

Yes the same people who make barely above min wage will continue to make mistakes.

In their mind all day, "Lunch time is almost here."

 

 

Edited January 2 by NewWorldOrder

[wombat]

On 1/1/2024 at 6:59 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Yes the same people who make barely above min wage will continue to make mistakes.   Nothing new

In their mind all day, "Lunch time is almost here."

 

At least we can agree on one thing. 

[Lightning55]

On 1/1/2024 at 6:34 PM, Bo1983 said:

Hulk 180 is Wolverine’s first appearance anyway and if he was on the cover with only one panel in the book nobody would be talking about 181!

Just slightly Off Topic. And no one has ever discussed THAT before. 

[Bo1983]

On 1/1/2024 at 7:06 PM, Lightning55 said:

Just slightly Off Topic. And no one has ever discussed THAT before. 

181 has poped up in this thread A lot and it’s a fact 181 is slabed more only because Wolverine is on the cover and I like both books but 180 is first Appearance not a cameo!

Edited January 2 by Bo1983