ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:18 PM, bc said:

I'm 100% sure that this reholdering scam exposed in this thread is not the only one happening in the collectibles world right now. 

Having a blank slab is quite a bit different than swapping books and taking advantage of a compromised process.

-bc

But the blank slab is what would allow the swapping of books without detection 

[bc]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:16 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Those videos haven’t convinced me that CGC wouldn’t catch the work

The party is a high volume submitter.

With the amount of ME's and shipping damage that's been posted in the QC thread, how do we not know that the party wasn't taking the doctored slabs and just bashing in the corner (which would hide their handy work) and resubbing them?

-bc

[bc]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:20 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

But the blank slab is what would allow the swapping of books without detection 

I don't think this party was that motivated. He found an easy exploit and milked it.

-bc

EDIT: I may be 100% wrong, but don't see any evidence up until this point

Edited January 10 by bc

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:23 PM, bc said:

I don't think this party was that motivated. He found an easy exploit and milked it.

-bc

The scammer seems pretty motivated to me.  

[bc]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:24 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

The scammer seems pretty motivated to me.  

Motivated does not equal creativity.

Found an easy loophole and worked his way to high dollar books.

-bc

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:25 PM, bc said:

Motivated does not equal creativity.

Found an easy loophole and worked his way to high dollar books.

-bc

They have been doing it for years without detection.  I don’t think a submitter could just continue bashing slab corners to hide their handy work without raising suspicions.

[shadroch]

On 1/9/2024 at 4:34 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Well the other factor I am not seeing people really talk about here is these tampered books still have value.

Just take the 350 books total market value lets say is $1 million (just making this number up it up for example).

Some will get a clean bill of health and the value is still there (CGC owns nothing besides reholder/shipping/worker wages of that book)

Others will get a new grade and CGC has to decide how to pay the difference/credit.  Example ASM #300 CGC 9.8, but is really a CGC 9.2.  They have to buy the book, but still have a legit CGC 9.2 in a new tamper-free holder.

So it could be CGC would only owe half of that amount in buybacks.

Crude example but I think you get my point.

So, CGC owns half a million dollars' worth of books.  Books they graded themselves.  Now what?  Does the unbiased third-party grading company go into selling comics?  The 9.8 they paid the market price for but is closer to a 9.2 will sell better in a 9.4 slab.  They'd be much better off returning the 9.2 and giving the owner a nice check.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:36 PM, shadroch said:

So, CGC owns half a million dollars' worth of books.  Books they graded themselves.  Now what?  Does the unbiased third-party grading company go into selling comics?  The 9.8 they paid the market price for but is closer to a 9.2 will sell better in a 9.4 slab.  They'd be much better off returning the 9.2 and giving the owner a nice check.

Not sure 9.8 collectors would want the 9.2 back.  Most would likely just want the money they paid for it.

[thehumantorch]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:45 AM, agamoto said:

What's really bad, to me, is that CGC is not telling us they are having feds investigate this fraud. All they want to tell us is they are self-investigating the matter.

This is a potential $1,000,000+ case of good ol' fashioned federal, felony, interstate wire fraud and those guilty of their crimes can end up serving ZERO jail time if evidence of the matter is not gathered and handled in a manner that is admissible in court.

I hope we learn a lot more about this fraud and I hope anyone responsible is charged and punished to the full extent of the law but CGC doesn't have to tell us a thing and they don't have to contact the feds or press charges.  CGC will investigate and listen to this legal council to determine what they need to do to make this go away and repair their reputation.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:36 PM, shadroch said:

So, CGC owns half a million dollars' worth of books.  Books they graded themselves.  Now what?  Does the unbiased third-party grading company go into selling comics?  The 9.8 they paid the market price for but is closer to a 9.2 will sell better in a 9.4 slab.  They'd be much better off returning the 9.2 and giving the owner a nice check.

Not my problem anymore.  As long as I get my market value $ for the book I move on, and call it a day.

What they do with the book is up to them, they bought it from me its now their's.

But yes that would be a nice thing for CGC to do for their customers I agree.

Edited January 10 by NewWorldOrder

[Darth Krayt]

On 1/9/2024 at 4:03 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

Say again

Say what

[grendel013]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:46 PM, Darth Krayt said:

Say what

he said whats up 

[Darth Krayt]

On 1/9/2024 at 4:17 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I think the upcoming auctions from the larger platforms like Heritage, ComicLink, ComicConnect, etc will give us an indication of what effect there has been, if any, on customer confidence.  The results will also likely inform CGC's plans for further disclosure and changes.

I doubt it will change much cause some people have money most can’t fathom!

[paqart]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:41 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Not sure 9.8 collectors would want the 9.2 back.  Most would likely just want the money they paid for it.

That's me. The only exception would be if the comic was exceptionally rare. In that case, I would want the comic back, even if in worse condition. For instance, Feature Book NN ( Tracy #1). If I bought a CGC 8.0 version of that and it turned out to be a 6.5, I'd take the 6.5 and some money for the difference in value because there is almost no chance of finding another.

As a collector, particularly of the actual comics involved, my preference would be for a real 9.8 of whatever the comic is. If I paid $20k for a 9.8 MJI newsstand ASM #252, and CGC could give me one that is legit, I'd take it.

[Sargon]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:30 AM, ScottStevens said:

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I am so confused as to what the next step is. Do I submit this stack of books I have here uncleaned, unpressed, and unrestored? Is the entire community in wait-and-see mode? Am I the only one terrified that the slabs I bought on the open market are now imperiled by this debacle? I fell that CGC is doing the right thing but I am just not sure how to move forward. Do I send every slab in to be reholdered and verified? So many questions...

Hi. Mostly lurker but some thoughts here...

 

I think a lot of people are in wait and see mode on purchasing many bigger books or books which may have traveled through circles which the alleged scammer operated with. The problem is that so many sales are though venues which are not reported online that it's going to take a while before people have a better grasp on how many have been impacted.

Now if I had books which I bought on the open market similar to the ones on the list, I would be concerned depending on where they were purchased and when. Many of the books I have purchased are so off the wall that I'm less worried than most.

 

As for CGC, I think they are doing what they can, not knowing anything more than I do right now. So many people on Youtube are clanging the hype train that it's hard to sort the noise from the facts at time.

[agamoto]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:42 PM, thehumantorch said:

I hope we learn a lot more about this fraud and I hope anyone responsible is charged and punished to the full extent of the law but CGC doesn't have to tell us a thing and they don't have to contact the feds or press charges.  CGC will investigate and listen to this legal council to determine what they need to do to make this go away and repair their reputation.

You're right, they don't have to tell us a thing, but they could if they wanted to. What they definitely don't want to do is lie and say they are if they actually are not. There is nothing stopping anyone here that either was a victim, knows a victim, or simply doesn't think this situation smells right, from reporting what's going on the FTC and/or the FBI. If enough folks do that, the authorities will take over the investigation and they'll do it properly. 

[comicwiz]

Apologies if this has already been covered. Got back home, and wanted to update the thread with a response from GoCollect. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:10 PM, comicwiz said:

Apologies if this has already been covered. Got back home, and wanted to update the thread with a response from GoCollect. 

It's the way I read it on Facebook, until I first posted here and heard how others took the one line hidden within, thanks to gocollect for the clarification. My 1st thoughts upon translation of the one line was upon retrospect that others could use it as  a retaliation type sport on people's certs from 3rd to 4th party and so on. That could be read in one line, now corrected.

When I posted here I was thinking they meant just to not count it in averages and or etc. Good on them for correcting the statement, as I knew the spirit was for good. That is why I tried to put the statement and the comment made in the Facebook post that titled the pic response.

 

Edited January 10 by ADAMANTIUM

[mrd160]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:10 PM, comicwiz said:

Apologies if this has already been covered. Got back home, and wanted to update the thread with a response from GoCollect. 

Good for them. A lot of negativity in this thread ( a lot of it warranted) but this is a good thing 👍🏾

[mrd160]

I actually subscribed to gocollect for this alone….good for them, want to support