ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[CJ Design]

On 1/24/2024 at 10:08 AM, BrashL said:

Multiple notes on a 9.8? What crazy multiverse did I fall into?

That's what confuses me...isn't that awfully strange?...I never have gotten notes on any 9.4 and above....although I haven't submitted much.

[ramithard]

Are those the notes from the illegal book that was 9.4 or 9.6?    yea   confusing

[comicjel]

On 1/24/2024 at 12:43 PM, ramithard said:

Are those the notes from the illegal book that was 9.4 or 9.6?    yea   confusing

They can not be regrading the book, because they are not cracking them out, and they do not sound like notes that would be expected on a legit 9.8, so maybe they are only notes that can be seen through the case now on an inferior replaced book?? 

[comicwiz]

Thought I'd connected a qualified to universal but they are different books.

Edited January 24 by comicwiz

[comicwiz]

Pending review of scans - different book

 

 

Edited January 24 by comicwiz

[comicwiz]

@360flip sent you a PM

[Murphman13]

I would also like to get a complete explanation by CGC for the books being crossed off the list. Because right now it looks like it means “the issue is resolved”. But does that mean,

1) The book was not tampered with and is staying in its original slab? or 

2) The book was cracked out and determined to be untampered with and re-slabbed with the same certification #? or

3) The same as #2 but it had to be re-graded to fully determine it wasn’t tampered with so it was re-slabbed with a new certificate #? or

4) It was tampered with and they have resolved (or are resolving) the issue.

[360flip]

On 1/24/2024 at 10:33 AM, comicwiz said:

@360flip sent you a PM

you must have magic powers because my post disappeared on its own! 

[wiparker824]

On 1/24/2024 at 8:43 AM, comicwiz said:

They're calling it in with the reportfraud@ email in red notation:

That note doesn’t seem to mean anything. We are still seeing it on every book in the list, even books other board members have come in here saying they’ve had the book cleared by CGC like this one:

Some consistency would be nice. 

[comicjel]

On 1/23/2024 at 3:24 PM, wiparker824 said:

Does look like these books are getting new certs as they said but you can still look up both the old and the new in the verify tool which is not what they said, not sure if that’s going to be temporary or permanent. Here’s the ASM 1 8.0 SS new and old cert:

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/1341998001/

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4372423001/

The book is also up for sale in upcoming CL auction. 

Looks like the inner well has not changed - which implies to me that they are just making sure that the book is the same as when originally graded (which I assume they are determining from original scan).

BTW... Nice book!!

Edited January 24 by comicjel
add to my comment

[wiparker824]

On 1/24/2024 at 2:04 PM, comicjel said:

Looks like the inner well has not changed - which implies to me that they are just making sure that the book is the same as when originally graded (which I assume they are determining from original scan).

BTW... Nice book!!

Not my book but yeah, I agree it is a nice one. And yeah they seem to be claiming the verification is happening before even opening the slabs… which to me says they are either sorcerers or they have images of all these books every time they get sent to them even ones prior to the scans becoming publicly available.

[Lightning55]

On 1/24/2024 at 10:32 AM, comicjel said:

All I am saying is that scams that involve separating the books from the original labels would be harder to accomplish if the original label had the original comic scanned IMO.

Yes the scan would be small, and you certainly could not see minor details, but most comics have lines in the art that go to the edges of the book that are easy to see if they match or not (even with a small scan). 

Also, it is just one tool - if something did not match up well, you could then go to the "verify" scan and see more detail.

Just looking for deterrents to the scam we know, that maybe can be implemented ahead of a 2 year case redesign.  

 

This would be more of a hindrance than a benefit. People will "think" they see things in this micro-scan that indicate that the book has been swapped, just due to the tiny size. There will be false positives all over the place. 

Better if they could photograph 1 tiny, distinctive defect (just about every comic has one), and state the location of that defect. Then put that closeup image and location on the back of the label, like a fingerprint. 

[IceHole]

Listen, my lil bit of paranoia is up there, so I sees this book on eBay...is it one of the swaps to get the newsstand label from cgc on an ”obvious to me" direct edition or an honest mistake by cgc.  If the later, cgc how'd you miss this if your biz is comics.  Cuz now you can write off all your mistakes to a scammer.  I mean, I have to trust the label if I'm not an informed collector.

Edited January 25 by IceHole

[BlancoBros]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:10 PM, wiparker824 said:

And yeah they seem to be claiming the verification is happening before even opening the slabs… which to me says they are either sorcerers or they have images of all these books every time they get sent to them even ones prior to the scans becoming publicly available.

I was suspecting they had images that are not available on the site. I'm curious how far back they go.
If they do in fact have older images, it would be nice if they could upload them at some point. 
Help avoid things like this in the future.

[wiparker824]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:11 PM, IceHole said:

Listen, my lil bit of paranoia is up there, so I sees this book on eBay...is it one of the swaps to get the newsstand label from cgc on an ”obvious to me" direct edition or an honest mistake by cgc.  If the later, cgc how'd you miss this if your biz is comics.  Cuz now you can write off all your mistakes to a scammer.  I mean, I have to trust the label if I'm not an informed collector.

This is a recently graded book you can see the scans on CGC thru verify tool, it’s not swapped out, just CGC QC issues - which is bad, but not related to this scam. 

[comicwiz]

This is the oddest swap I've noticed to date. Two ASM 238 9.8's bought on the same day (8/29/2022), and sold on the same day (10/19/2022). 

1) Certification: 4109535001 - Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #238 CGC 9.8
Cert: 4109535001 [10/19/2022] - $2,513
↳
Cert: 4109535001 | 8/29/2022 | $2,700

Beginning first with cert look-up for posterity:

First appeared with sale on 8/29/2022 for $2,700

Different book inside is noticed with a reappearance sale on 10/19/2022 - $2,513

 

[comicwiz]

2) Certification: 3805448018 - Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #238 CGC 9.8
Cert: 3805448018 [10/19/2022] - $3,650
↳
Cert: 3805448018 | 8/29/2022 | $2,700

Beginning first with cert look-up for posterity:

First appeared with sale from 8/29/2022 | $2,700

Different book inside (changed from Direct to Newsstand) is noticed with a reappearance sale on 10/19/2022] - $3,650

Edited January 25 by comicwiz

[bc]

On 1/24/2024 at 8:33 PM, comicwiz said:

2) Certification: 3805448018 - Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #238 CGC 9.8
Cert: 3805448018 [10/19/2022] - $3,650
↳
Cert: 3805448018 | 8/29/2022 | $2,700

Beginning first with cert look-up for posterity:

First appeared with sale from 8/29/2022 | $2,700

Different book inside (changed from Direct to Newsstand) is noticed with a reappearance sale on 10/19/2022] - $3,650

This one is a head scratcher for sure.

Obviously different books with the same cert#.

-bc

[comicwiz]

On 1/24/2024 at 8:38 PM, bc said:

This one is a head scratcher for sure.

Obviously different books with the same cert#.

-bc

This shows methodical and careful planning.

[wiparker824]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:33 PM, comicwiz said:

2) Certification: 3805448018 - Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #238 CGC 9.8
Cert: 3805448018 [10/19/2022] - $3,650
↳
Cert: 3805448018 | 8/29/2022 | $2,700

Beginning first with cert look-up for posterity:

First appeared with sale from 8/29/2022 | $2,700

Different book inside (changed from Direct to Newsstand) is noticed with a reappearance sale on 10/19/2022] - $3,650

Probably bought 2 green label or raw 238’s missing tattooz insert same day as initial buy, swapped into the 9.8 blue label books and subbed both on same day as reholders with custom labels, got em back same day, put them up on eBay together and sold together again. Also resubbed the legit books likely on another submission. 

2 green label + 2 blue label become 4 blue label 9.8’s. This is what they really meant when they said “Hard work has already been done for you”.