ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[sledgehammer]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:25 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I’m not seeing the Secret Wars 8

His current auctions??

[Number 6]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:48 AM, Stefan_W said:

No matter what changes are made to a process the scammers out there are always there trying to find a work-around to beat the system. That is just what dishonest people do. 

I have no idea what happened, but my best guess would be a scammer figured out a way to crack and re-seal the case in order to swap out books. The good news for honest buyers is there is already a saying in our community about buying the book in the holder and not the number at the top. If the grading seems to be too soft to be true it probably is. 

I agree, scammers are always going to find an opening they can exploit. 
 

My concern is that CGC will handle this the way they normally do:  ignore the situation for 6+ months, respond like there’s “nothing to see here” before finally acknowledging that there’s a problem and actually doing something about it. 
 

Scammers are going to do what they do, but CGC being slow to respond and close loopholes is what’s really going to damage their brand. 

[sledgehammer]

It seems pretty cut and dried they were susceptible at the special label reholders, and maybe more..

Judging by this seller's history, he seems dubious to me.

Also (GPA), a 9.2 ASM 252 Mark Jewelers was sold on August 3rd, 10 days before the first sale of the 9.8.

[Timed]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:06 PM, sledgehammer said:

It seems pretty cut and dried they were susceptible at the special label reholders, and maybe more..

Judging by this seller's history, he seems dubious to me.

Also (GPA), a 9.2 ASM 252 Mark Jewelers was sold on August 3rd, 10 days before the first sale of the 9.8.

Is there a picture of the 9.2?

A less than 10 day turnaround for a reholder is stretching it though.              

[topcat54]

Seems someone in the U S has found a way to crack without damage at least it looks that way to me  .  This is a year old but they did it and sold it on ebay. 

I also found some cases for cards that has a space at the top for a label .

 

I also found some cases for cards that has a space at the top for a label and they are shipped from the UK  . Are cards going to be next? If you can get them for cards I would think you could get them for comics 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115724772260?hash=item1af1bbe3a4:g:gaQAAOSwtvNkhCgS&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwP32kFEnHGj4%2F5OneA6wBexj7QIBmWrZNqkHTKFxcwoh%2BylYRBqLPdMd60mxnRnbKLyHuT4FlYQlG47mLQSLd4bu0XjnkvPD%2BvffG9LO1JW7hBnGnBpf1iH1zzKBtrkoPDyJINw2roIs6oNp%2FaE7qM8IkZJzC6V7f1TCri3kMQH8CErvHKR%2BkGsb2MI67oQLp5MfxPu7RWBKzWz5m%2BXoBg4br0ViWnsBNc%2F0aOdOsdxzT%2BJP30gB1t%2FonjN8RdNwTA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7D86I-PYw

 

 

[Nick Furious]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:18 PM, Timed said:

Is there a picture of the 9.2?

A less than 10 day turnaround for a reholder is stretching it though.              

I don't think the implication is that it was reholdered in 10 days but rather that both may have been bought by the same person in order to move the 9.2 MJ into the 9.8 slab for reholdering.  

[sledgehammer]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:18 PM, Timed said:

Is there a picture of the 9.2?

A less than 10 day turnaround for a reholder is stretching it though.              

I doubt if there is a picture, unless someone can get access to the photo.

All I’m saying is that the first sale of that certification number, happened 10 days after the 9.2 sale in August.

The second sale of that 9.8 certification number, happened four months later.

Edited December 17, 2023 by sledgehammer

[sledgehammer]

The 9.2 Mark jewelers was graded in 2007. No notes.

[topcat54]

so this is the same seller 2 auctions both books and serial # are the same but sold to 2 different people

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285559720398?hash=item427caf89ce:g:-oYAAOSwvsplVD1S        ended in Nov.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285582554580?hash=item427e0bf5d4:g:-oYAAOSwvsplVD1S       ended in DEC.

[Timed]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:30 PM, Nick Furious said:

I don't think the implication is that it was reholdered in 10 days but rather that both may have been bought by the same person in order to move the 9.2 MJ into the 9.8 slab for reholdering.  

Makes sense, yeah. Early morning me can't comprehend sentences.

[Timed]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:45 PM, topcat54 said:

so this is the same seller 2 auctions both books and serial # are the same but sold to 2 different people

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285559720398?hash=item427caf89ce:g:-oYAAOSwvsplVD1S        ended in Nov.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285582554580?hash=item427e0bf5d4:g:-oYAAOSwvsplVD1S       ended in DEC.

Not necessarily anything nefarious in this specific case; the first buyer probably never paid so it relisted.

[Christophe9999]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought if an item is relisted it says so.

 

[Christophe9999]

Oh wait never mind they did relist it.

 

[Christophe9999]

oops did the wrong screenshot on the auctions

 

[WolverineX]

Doesn't CGC scan photos of books now? 

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:24 PM, WolverineX said:

Doesn't CGC scan photos of books now? 

Yeah since June / July I believe. My late May books have no scans but July 14th ones do.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:24 PM, WolverineX said:

Doesn't CGC scan photos of books now? 

This is the most helpful change CGC has made in a long time. I use these photos all of the time especially when buying. Turning to the topic of this thread, these photos should help to prevent a lot of shenanigans down the road - although, of course, you cant force people to refer to them.  

[WolverineX]

Whoever bought the book has 15,000 reasons to do his due diligence.   The story will come out.  I can't wait. 

[ThothAmon]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:06 PM, sledgehammer said:

Judging by this seller's history, he seems dubious to me.

Are you talking about, if I’m reading it correctly, the one negative that is in his feedback history?  If so I’ll withhold such a withering judgment personally. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:38 PM, ThothAmon said:

Are you talking about, if I’m reading it correctly, the one negative that is in his feedback history?  If so I’ll withhold such a withering judgment personally. 

His feedback definitely looks good.  What do you think is going on here?