Certified Collectibles Group to Acquire James Spence Authentication 11 11

[comicginger1789]

I also wonder if this new verification process would care to take into account any additional documentation. Like suppose someone has a book they had signed in the 80s by a very hard to get artist/writer/creator. Would they ever consider an old polaroid image of someone holding the book with said artist as proof to help them verify? Or would they simply follow their procedure regardless and make that determination based on whatever evidence/database they have access to to reference?

[wombat]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:48 PM, comicginger1789 said:

It may not at all. Take a current artist with LOTS of signing opportunities and stuff out there like McFarlane. Perhaps his books, whether they are yellow or this new colour that has been verified to be his signature, perhaps the two have the same value.

I would be interested what it would mean for creators who passed that signed less stuff during the lifespan of CGC, like say Frank Frazetta. I wonder how an early, witnessed sig in a yellow would compare to one someone sends in for this new verification? Time will have the answer.

Also I am curious what the cost would be? I am guessing similar to the other guys current cost for such a verification.

I meant about the color of the label. I personally think it will be yellow. 

[Mr. Zipper]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:50 PM, comicginger1789 said:

I also wonder if this new verification process would care to take into account any additional documentation. Like suppose someone has a book they had signed in the 80s by a very hard to get artist/writer/creator. Would they ever consider an old polaroid image of someone holding the book with said artist as proof to help them verify? Or would they simply follow their procedure regardless and make that determination based on whatever evidence/database they have access to to reference?

I don't speak for JSA, but I am very familiar with how pro autograph authentication works. Generally, exact photo proof (a clear photo showing the exact signature) is something that may be considered. Unclear photos, "stories," testimonials, or previous COAs are not considered.

That said, even exact photo proof won't save a signature that is suspiciously atypical. 

[comicginger1789]

On 3/22/2024 at 2:08 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

I don't speak for JSA, but I am very familiar with how pro autograph authentication works. Generally, exact photo proof (a clear photo showing the exact signature) is something that may be considered. Unclear photos, "stories," testimonials, or previous COAs are not considered.

That said, even exact photo proof won't save a signature that is suspiciously atypical. 

And that makes sense. Anyone can fake a piece of paper. An old picture is slightly harder. And I know that scenario in itself is super rare but I am just imagining the process for verification for some of the more rare signatures in comics and other mediums. I am sure old picture proof would help authenticate an item so that, moving forward, future items could be compared to one that they felt was legitimate.

[Matt1982]

Hate the green label. This was done before CGC existed. I bought it raw and had it slabbed - would love yellow, and it deserves it.

[Matt1982]

This book has two signatures - one witnessed and one unwitnessed. They could do something like this as people have said, that uses two colors - here there's a stripe across the top. It wouldn't make sense to keep using green, since that will still be associated with Qualified books. Maybe a darker orange?

That said, my preference would be to stick with a yellow label, and then just notate it. For example, with this book it could say, "Signed by Frank Miller on 10/15/23; Verified Signature by David Mazzucchelli."

Edited March 22 by Matt1982

[DocGo]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:58 PM, Matt1982 said:

Hate the green label. This was done before CGC existed. I bought it raw and had it slabbed - would love yellow, and it deserves it.

That’s a nice book but why would it “deserve” a yellow label?

[Matt1982]

On 3/22/2024 at 5:21 PM, DocGo said:

That’s a nice book but why would it “deserve” a yellow label?

Strictly speaking, nothing “deserves” anything. It’s a nice book that was signed by the creators as part of a highly-public, limited edition/numbered sketch/sign. It’s got Joe Q. and Jimmy P. on there, and so to me it’s just silly to have a green label that reads “two names written on cover.” I need them to tell me that on the label? I’m really excited to see how they’ll handle art on the covers because I would love to get it a yellow label if possible. I collect a lot of signed/sketched books and like to display them, and the green stands out like a sore thumb.

[comicwiz]

These are the only two creator-signed books I own. I don't need anyone to tell me they are real. That said, in instances where creators signed a book before CGC existed, I guess it would at least be reasonable to offer the person the option of getting a blue label without the grade deduction (I realize that's the purpose of the yellow label, but I'd much rather have it blue and recgonized as real). On the Feds N Heads, I was told it would be deducted down to an 8.5. On the Zap 1, I knew that signature was rare. I've only ever seen him use his full name on a very early serigraph that was posted on the Official Crumb site years ago. If not for the deduction, it probably would have been closer to a mid-grade.

Edited March 22 by comicwiz

[Dr Zen]

I had the pleasure of meeting Jack Kirby at a convention in 1986. I got a half a dozen books signed. I never considered submitting them before. I am very much considering it now.

[Matt1982]

On 3/22/2024 at 7:09 PM, Dr Zen said:

I had the pleasure of meeting Jack Kirby at a convention in 1986. I got a half a dozen books signed. I never considered submitting them before. I am very much considering it now.

Keep those photos safe because you won't be able to enjoy them anymore once the books are slabbed. That's the only downside of the old-time first page sig.

[DocGo]

On 3/22/2024 at 5:46 PM, Matt1982 said:

Strictly speaking, nothing “deserves” anything. It’s a nice book that was signed by the creators as part of a highly-public, limited edition/numbered sketch/sign. It’s got Joe Q. and Jimmy P. on there, and so to me it’s just silly to have a green label that reads “two names written on cover.” I need them to tell me that on the label? I’m really excited to see how they’ll handle art on the covers because I would love to get it a yellow label if possible. I collect a lot of signed/sketched books and like to display them, and the green stands out like a sore thumb.

To me, the yellow label signifies “witnessed signature”. I understand your thoughts on the Daredevil book (not to mention green labels) but there is no way it “deserves” a yellow label since it wasn’t witnessed by a CGC rep. Giving “authenticated” signatures the same colored label with just a written notation would not only downgrade the significance of the Signature Series program but also create confusion in the market.

I’ve been a fan of SS for over 17 years now and that would surely end if they gave books with “authenticated signatures” the same label color. I’m fairly certain CGC wouldn't do this but the possibility makes me a tad nervous. I don’t think I’m alone.

[Sauce Dog]

My opinion is that they will end up using the same yellow labels, if only from a cost saving stance (and from a marketing stand point, as doing so would cause more people to resubmit to get the yellow label to match their other books, something they might not want to do if a new color is introduced).

The downside of this is the moment we get a fake signature authenticated and slabbed in a yellow signature series label (and make no mistake, it WILL happen. Remember James Spence’s appearance on Fox News, where he authenticated forged autographs as genuine) it will greatly lessen the strength of the yellow label and tarnish what was previously one of the most clear & trusted guarantees offered by CGC. 

Edited March 23 by Sauce Dog

[troydivision1]

As someone who collects signature series books I have my fingers crossed that a unique label color is created to distinguish 'witnessed' v. 'verified' signatures.
My concern with an entire label being yellow is that it would dilute the Signature Series 'brand'.
There's a lot of 'power' in a trusted brand / process.
Part of the the Signature Series 'brand' is the process and the label color.

As suggested in this thread:
Full orange labels for 'verified' signatures.
Yellow labels with an orange stripe for witnessed + 'verified' signatures.
(doing this would begin to eliminate the stigma of green labels, plus cause a wave of new submissions)

Either way I foresee an influx of new submissions as statistically SS resells for more money versus of the other guys.
So get ready for people buying cheap witnessed (and verified) slabs from the other guys and then cracking / pressing / submitting / grading with CGC.

[postersandstuff]

On 3/20/2024 at 6:56 PM, lostboys said:

So CGC is acquiring the authenticating team?

And when they all eventually leave to start their own company?

CGC gonna train people to authenticate sigs?

Frightening.

 

 

 

No , "frightening" is the fact that POTP has started authenticating too

[Mr. Zipper]

On 3/24/2024 at 3:45 AM, postersandstuff said:

No , "frightening" is the fact that POTP has started authenticating too

Who is POTP?

[Mr. Zipper]

On 3/23/2024 at 12:35 AM, Matt1982 said:

Keep those photos safe because you won't be able to enjoy them anymore once the books are slabbed. That's the only downside of the old-time first page sig.

They should print an image of the signature on the back side of the label. It seems crazy to me that one would pay a premium for a signed book and never see the signature. Otherwise you have no idea of the quality of the signature (a nice example vs. shaky or smeared) and you're placing blind trust in the authenticating company on the authenticity of the signature with no ability to vet it yourself. Hard pass.  

Edited March 24 by Mr. Zipper

[wombat]

They may use the same yellow if for no other reason to stop any QC issues of using the wrong one. 

[cousin itt]

if a book has both a witnessed and "verified" sig, then I'm fine with a yellow label.  If it's only a verified sig, I think blue with a color stripe (maybe orange?).  But they may have to start doing multiple stripes... what if it has a witnessed sig, a verified sig, but also needs to be green (say for a missing page) and has conservation, and comes from a gold-label-worthy pedigree?  That would be, like, 50 stripes.

Edited March 24 by cousin itt

[Matt1982]

On 3/24/2024 at 12:33 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

They should print an image of the signature on the back side of the label. It seems crazy to me that one would pay a premium for a signed book and never see the signature. Otherwise you have no idea of the quality of the signature (a nice example vs. shaky or smeared) and you're placing blind trust in the authenticating company on the authenticity of the signature with no ability to vet it yourself. Hard pass.  

I really like that idea - though I'm sure it would be super expensive. They should make it an option - like a custom label.