The JSA acquisition is going to be a game changer for Signed non witnessed books 3 3

[William-James88]

If this topic is discussed elsewhere, please let me know.

This news will be quite the game changer for me. A thing I loved to do was get books signed at conventions. However, I had not realized that I was potentially messing with the valuation of my books and while I had great experiences meeting Stan Lee, Jim Starlin, Joe Kubert, Andy Kubert and Glenn Fabry, the books they signed (including some keys) couldn't be valued appropriately in my collection, at least from my perspective. And now it looks like we'll get yellow labels on our signed books that were not witnessed (for an extra fee of course). 

Don't know if anyone else is as excited as me for this prospect.

 

I also now realize it will add a whole new level of speculation to selling raw books. Where not only is there potential to have a higher grade/value with a press, but also not only make un witnessed signatures no longer detrimental to a sale, but also potentially adding value.

 

Quote

The acquisition of JSA is CCG’s answer to the countless collectors and dealers who have asked to have their autographed collectibles authenticated and then graded and encapsulated. Although CCG pioneered witnessed authentication of autographs through its popular CGC Signature Series service, it has never offered full authentication and grading services for collectibles with unwitnessed autographs.

 

Edited March 26 by William-James88

[DougC]

Just for reference; JSA has been authenticating signatures on comics for years. The only difference is they will now be slabbed by CGC as such.

I am excited and all for it, my main interest is a number of independent (and 90s) books that were only made with signatures where no Universal label was possible.

[William-James88]

On 3/26/2024 at 11:47 AM, DougC said:

Just for reference; JSA has been authenticating signatures on comics for years. The only difference is they will now be slabbed by CGC as such.

I am excited and all for it, my main interest is a number of independent (and 90s) books that were only made with signatures where no Universal label was possible.

I’m also assuming from what is written that it will be a streamlined process. So you could send your comics to CGC and ask that the unwitnessed signature be verified before slabbing.

curious to see what the label will look like

[DocGo]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:30 AM, William-James88 said:

If this topic is discussed elsewhere, please let me know.

This news will be quite the game changer for me. A thing I loved to do was get books signed at conventions. However, I had not realized that I was potentially messing with the valuation of my books and while I had great experiences meeting Stan Lee, Jim Starlin, Joe Kubert, Andy Kubert and Glenn Fabry, the books they signed (including some keys) couldn't be valued appropriately in my collection, at least from my perspective. And now it looks like we'll get yellow labels on our signed books that were not witnessed (for an extra fee of course). 

Don't know if anyone else is as excited as me for this prospect.

 

I also now realize it will add a whole new level of speculation to selling raw books. Where not only is there potential to have a higher grade/value with a press, but also not only make un witnessed signatures no longer detrimental to a sale, but also potentially adding value.

 

 

I’ve said this a few times already but I’ll keep saying it until we get the news in April: CGC, please do not give authenticated books the same yellow label as witnessed books! I have a good amount of qualified books like many of you but there is a HUGE difference between authentication and witnessing. I’m praying CGC realizes this and doesn’t cannibalize their own Signature Series program 

[seanfingh]

On 3/26/2024 at 1:15 PM, DocGo said:

I’ve said this a few times already but I’ll keep saying it until we get the news in April: CGC, please do not give authenticated books the same yellow label as witnessed books! I have a good amount of qualified books like many of you but there is a HUGE difference between authentication and witnessing. I’m praying CGC realizes this and doesn’t cannibalize their own Signature Series program 

This is perfectly stated. Since the authentication horse appears to have left the barn, the main issue remaining is upholding the strength of the Yellow label and providing some sort of delineation  or difference.  They probably will incorporate Yellow to give the authenticated books the benefit of the Yellow label's goodwill, but I hope there is an orange or other color stripe for authenticated books.

[William-James88]

On 3/26/2024 at 1:55 PM, seanfingh said:

This is perfectly stated. Since the authentication horse appears to have left the barn, the main issue remaining is upholding the strength of the Yellow label and providing some sort of delineation  or difference.  They probably will incorporate Yellow to give the authenticated books the benefit of the Yellow label's goodwill, but I hope there is an orange or other color stripe for authenticated books.

Question though: what is the difference?

Both are confirmed real signatures. Also, a CGC witness can literally be anyone who applies for the role. They then have carte blanche and are not supervised by CGC.

The colour of the label already doesnt distinguish between a book that is part of a CGC sig event where its officially a CGC rep that witnesses it and a sig witnessed by joe schmo at a con. Both mean that CGC sees the sig as being legit. So if the goal of authentification is the same, legitimizing s signature, then why should the label be any different?

[inthehottub]

On 3/26/2024 at 11:24 AM, William-James88 said:

Question though: what is the difference?

Both are confirmed real signatures. Also, a CGC witness can literally be anyone who applies for the role. They then have carte blanche and are not supervised by CGC.

The colour of the label already doesnt distinguish between a book that is part of a CGC sig event where its officially a CGC rep that witnesses it and a sig witnessed by joe schmo at a con. Both mean that CGC sees the sig as being legit. So if the goal of authentification is the same, legitimizing s signature, then why should the label be any diffeirent?

A signature series witness is not just anyone who applies for the job.  A signature series witness does not have carte Blanche and is in some ways supervised by CGC. 

There is a big difference between the two services.  A witnessed book a CGC witness watched them sign the book. The verified book someone says the think it is real.

[CardiacKid1]

On 3/26/2024 at 1:55 PM, seanfingh said:

This is perfectly stated. Since the authentication horse appears to have left the barn, the main issue remaining is upholding the strength of the Yellow label and providing some sort of delineation  or difference.  They probably will incorporate Yellow to give the authenticated books the benefit of the Yellow label's goodwill, but I hope there is an orange or other color stripe for authenticated books.

This.

[seanfingh]

On 3/26/2024 at 2:24 PM, William-James88 said:

Question though: what is the difference?

Both are confirmed real signatures. Also, a CGC witness can literally be anyone who applies for the role. They then have carte blanche and are not supervised by CGC.

The colour of the label already doesnt distinguish between a book that is part of a CGC sig event where its officially a CGC rep that witnesses it and a sig witnessed by joe schmo at a con. Both mean that CGC sees the sig as being legit. So if the goal of authentification is the same, legitimizing s signature, then why should the label be any different?

Because authentication by its very nature is different.  I saw John Doe sign this is different than I think John Doe signed this.

[Darthvader23]

oh yeah, i have 1000 comics with STAN LEE signatures on all of them( all of a sudden ). I swear they're legit, i was there when i signed , opps,  I mean -  i was there when stan signed my comics. I like how CGC back themselves with they're signature series, by having someone from CGC witness the signatures. Now, fake signatures is one of the biggest scams on the planet. You only have to watch 'pawn stars' to see how they authenticate signatures. Firstly, they look with a magnifying lens app on they're phone, to see if it's live ink.............Well, wouldn't all signatures have live ink, unless they're a stamp signature. And then, they try and match up the signature to a known signature. Thats it...........boom, you have been authenticated. What a farse. I also have Abrahim Lincoln's signature on this old bit of paper that my great grandfather was there for.( joke )........ I feel, they should keep the yellow header from CGC witnessed signatures, and have a pink header for ones for being non-witnessed. But in saying that, there are some comics in existence, that were known to been released with signatures, you only have to look at spawn #350 THANK YOU COVER- with T.M signature.....oh, and I wasnt joking about my 1000 stan lee signatures......LOL

Edited March 27 by Darthvader23

[comicginger1789]

On 3/26/2024 at 2:24 PM, William-James88 said:

Question though: what is the difference?

Both are confirmed real signatures. Also, a CGC witness can literally be anyone who applies for the role. They then have carte blanche and are not supervised by CGC.

The colour of the label already doesnt distinguish between a book that is part of a CGC sig event where its officially a CGC rep that witnesses it and a sig witnessed by joe schmo at a con. Both mean that CGC sees the sig as being legit. So if the goal of authentification is the same, legitimizing s signature, then why should the label be any different?

True. I could care less either way I think. If they amalgamate them in with other yellow labels, that is fine. I assume any truly witnessed signatures will still carry the note on the label (stating the date the signature was witnessed) and any non-witness signature books would not. An easy way to distinguish the two. I would also be cool with a new colour label. Something about a sultry red tickles my fancy but that may be because I have red hair.

[William-James88]

On 3/26/2024 at 8:27 PM, Darthvader23 said:

oh yeah, i have 1000 comics with STAN LEE signatures on all of them( all of a sudden ). I swear they're legit, i was there when i signed , opps,  I mean -  i was there when stan signed my comics. I like how CGC back themselves with they're signature series, by having someone from CGC witness the signatures. Now, fake signatures is one of the biggest scams on the planet. You only have to watch 'pawn stars' to see how they authenticate signatures. Firstly, they look with a magnifying lens app on they're phone, to see if it's live ink.............Well, wouldn't all signatures have live ink, unless they're a stamp signature. And then, they try and match up the signature to a known signature. Thats it...........boom, you have been authenticated. What a farse. I also have Abrahim Lincoln's signature on this old bit of paper that my great grandfather was there for.( joke )........ I feel, they should keep the yellow header from CGC witnessed signatures, and have a pink header for ones for being non-witnessed. But in saying that, there are some comics in existence, that were known to been released with signatures, you only have to look at spawn #350 THANK YOU COVER- with T.M signature.....oh, and I wasnt joking about my 1000 stan lee signatures......LOL

Ha! But you know, the running ink test was what told them that Lincoln sig was a photocopy of a forgery 

[William-James88]

On 3/26/2024 at 8:57 PM, comicginger1789 said:

True. I could care less either way I think. If they amalgamate them in with other yellow labels, that is fine. I assume any truly witnessed signatures will still carry the note on the label (stating the date the signature was witnessed) and any non-witness signature books would not. An easy way to distinguish the two. I would also be cool with a new colour label. Something about a sultry red tickles my fancy but that may be because I have red hair.

Thats an excellent point, the note on the label would be enough to distinguish one from the other .

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:30 AM, William-James88 said:

If this topic is discussed elsewhere, please let me know.

This news will be quite the game changer for me. A thing I loved to do was get books signed at conventions. However, I had not realized that I was potentially messing with the valuation of my books and while I had great experiences meeting Stan Lee, Jim Starlin, Joe Kubert, Andy Kubert and Glenn Fabry, the books they signed (including some keys) couldn't be valued appropriately in my collection, at least from my perspective. And now it looks like we'll get yellow labels on our signed books that were not witnessed (for an extra fee of course). 

Don't know if anyone else is as excited as me for this prospect.

 

I also now realize it will add a whole new level of speculation to selling raw books. Where not only is there potential to have a higher grade/value with a press, but also not only make un witnessed signatures no longer detrimental to a sale, but also potentially adding value.

 

 

 

It is being discussed here as well, since you asked.

I enjoy all the discussions and it is worthy here in the signature forum as well! I sold all of my raw sigs, well most at least. Quite recently I sold a raw Jeremy Bulloch Boba fett signed comic, found it for $3. Idk if I'm missing out, not my genre so much, but to say this may now affect my further dollar bin dives, is a understatement that I'm not sure how to handle

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

I wonder if we'll ever get the signatures of books broken out in the census lol.

But that is a whole other ball of yarn.

I have mixed feelings on this, but I guess I don't "regret" selling all my raw sigs found or obtained somehow, not thinking cgc would ever option this

Again another ball of yarn!

 

[William-James88]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:07 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

It is being discussed here as well, since you asked.

I enjoy all the discussions and it is worthy here in the signature forum as well! I sold all of my raw sigs, well most at least. Quite recently I sold a raw Jeremy Bulloch Boba fett signed comic, found it for $3. Idk if I'm missing out, not my genre so much, but to say this may now affect my further dollar bin dives, is a understatement that I'm not sure how to handle

 

Aw thanks man! And I’m glad to see you join in on the discussion. What I find so fascinating here are all the balls of yarn this unravels. Like, I may not send my stan lee and jim starlin sigs in, but at least those books wont suffer from a stigma and can retain their value.

plus, it means we will get some slabbed kirby sigs on the market in non green holders

[jimbo_7071]

On 3/26/2024 at 11:47 AM, DougC said:

Just for reference; JSA has been authenticating signatures on comics for years. The only difference is they will now be slabbed by CGC as such.

I am excited and all for it, my main interest is a number of independent (and 90s) books that were only made with signatures where no Universal label was possible.

There's no such thing as a Universal label for an autographed book. The yellow Signature Series grade is a qualified grade and always has been. The Universal grade would be much lower because of the writing.

[William-James88]

On 3/26/2024 at 4:16 PM, inthehottub said:

A signature series witness is not just anyone who applies for the job.  A signature series witness does not have carte Blanche and is in some ways supervised by CGC. 

There is a big difference between the two services.  A witnessed book a CGC witness watched them sign the book. The verified book someone says the think it is real.

I know for a fact that this sig below wasnt supervised by CGC. Eastman appeared at a local show which had 0 CGC presence. A local comic store owner applied to be a witness and got approved and had Eastman to sign a bunch privately, away from the crowd.
While there is 0 incentive to forge Eastman’s sig when he’s right there, all I can do is take their word for it. Could be that they missed or forgot a book and thus forged a sig among the others sent to CGC.

unlikely, but there’s no proof one way or another. CGC wasnt there, CGC didnt witness anything, they didn't supervise jack. They are simply taking the word of someone who is bringing in more business for them. And that gives me this nice yellow label book that makes it look like an official CGC witnessed sig.

 

As we saw with the recent scandal, this whole CGC thing is merely trust based, and there could always be people abusing that system.
 

Edited March 27 by William-James88

[DougC]

On 3/27/2024 at 6:29 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

There's no such thing as a Universal label for an autographed book. The yellow Signature Series grade is a qualified grade and always has been. The Universal grade would be much lower because of the writing.

yeah, that is what I posted.... maybe you didn't understand.

a book like the Maxx 1/2 Ashcan cannot qualify for a universal (blue) label without significant grade reduction because as I stated:

Quote

my main interest is a number of independent (and 90s) books that were only made with signatures where no Universal label was possible.

Now with JSA authentication they can be graded as 9.8 with some type of signature label vice the green label of doom.

[comicginger1789]

I just want to see if 18 year old me was right. As a young ebay buyer at the time, I was eying a copy of ASM 97 with "name written on inside page". No pics were shown so I asked and low and behold, the name was Gil Kane. Young me did some early days internet sleuthing to determine it appeared to be legitimate and that the $15 risk was worth it and I have said issue now (also since signed by Stan). It would probably be the only book I send to the new verification services for that reason.