Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[Ninja0215]

On 8/5/2024 at 6:44 PM, DanJD said:

So…does this mean that the inner wells have been fixed?

 

 

 

I don't think so but as other have stated ; west coast is getting closer and I'm sure that's enough to hasten their efforts. I'm waiting for an official word. 

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/5/2024 at 4:46 PM, greggy said:

Didn't you get banned?

Shouldn't you be looking in a mirror when you type this? 

 

[All-Star Squadman]

At NJ Art Con yesterday, I listened to two collectors talking Graded Comics inner well issues. Sure enough I find this topic here in Comics General without doing any searching.

I'm a Comic Art Collector first and foremost but do have some CGC Hi Grade Comic Books albeit mostly mostly low value.

I checked this evening and found I have Twelve Comic Books that I believe are graded by CGC in 2024. The lowest cert number begins with 43964. Is there link to an app that can provide dates? I looked at all 12 Books, most were 9.8 the rest were 9.6, and 10 of them appear to have the issues as shown in pics on the first few pages in this topic.  6 of them are from the same lot number having consecutive serial numbers.

I also looked at some of my 9.8 and 9.6 books I purchased during the pandemic, they did not have the convex (concave?) curving or rippling.

Not worth my time to pursue further.  

BTW In my 12 years on this forum I have never pointed this out, but after seeing the vast amount of childish acrimony between several forum members who have posted in this topic, I will stick to the Original Art Forum where the acrimony is generally not over very mild stuff. Hope is it OK for me to be honest here.

Carry on folks now that my long time  framer, who I trusted implicitly, retired and closed up shop, I'm going to focus finding a new one to have my recent art auction wins framed.

P.S. I am so glad that with Original Comic Book Art condition is pretty much meaningless

 

 

Edited August 6 by All-Star Squadman

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:14 PM, All-Star Squadman said:

The lowest cert number begins with 43964. Is there link to an app that can provide dates?

Type each certification number in at this link. 

It will tell you the grade dates for them there.

 

[CGC Mike]

On 8/5/2024 at 5:37 PM, greggy said:

On 8/5/2024 at 5:35 PM, MAR1979 said:

I expected more from you than insulting what stuff interests another collector. 

You win as usual.

 

 

Stop playing the victim.  You try to start it with some passive aggressive BS and I'm going to end it.  

I can go all day. 

Lets end this now...

[All-Star Squadman]

On 8/5/2024 at 8:19 PM, CGC Mike said:

Lets end this now...

Hello,

Seems a Olive branch or twig of sorts was passed. It included an apology, something you almost never see on web message boards. Regardless of who may or may not have started the offering of an apology deserves kudos. Don't think I ever saw one in the Comic Art Forum, where I will be sticking to from now on! 

On 8/5/2024 at 5:55 PM, MAR1979 said:

Yeah my comment was less than nice and for that my apologies - seriously. 

However,  Did that really deserve you disparaging another collectors interests?  

If your books are not affected and others have been, perhaps as a large client your submissions are handled different. Example more attention to QC. After all a tenent of great business it to keep your biggest clients as happy as your internal regulations permits.

This will be my last response to one of your postings as well as alluding to you in any manner. Hoping at this juncture you will do the same in return so we can both take the high road.

 

 

 

Edited August 6 by All-Star Squadman

[grendel013]

On 8/5/2024 at 8:22 PM, All-Star Squadman said:

Hello,

Seems a Olive branch or twig of sorts was passed. That include an apology something you almost never see on message boards. Don't think I ever saw one in the Comic Art Forum, where I will be sticking to from now on.

 

 

I wasn't sure what was a work and what was a shoot.

[RockMyAmadeus]

[All-Star Squadman]

On 8/5/2024 at 8:25 PM, grendel013 said:

I wasn't sure what was a work and what was a shoot.

Based on the language used it appears 100% genuine apology. I'm from NY and have collected 1970s Comic Art since 1999 so it's not easy to pull wool over these eye glasses

Edited August 8 by All-Star Squadman

[MAY1979]

^ My apology was genuine.  I have voluntary taken some recent EQ (Emotional Intelligence) courses, as I now have to handle increased and younger staff at work. I should have worded my initial post differently and not put anyone on the defensive even indirectly. I constantly try to improve myself but like all of us  no one is perfect.

Make note: You can not control the actions of others but you can control your own

 

Edited August 6 by MAR1979

[MAY1979]

@CGC Mike any chance of cleanup? this way the thread stays on point complaining about your employer

[grendel013]

On 8/5/2024 at 8:28 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Lol. I keep clicking on the screenshot like it's going to play a video.

[ramrod44]

On 7/30/2024 at 3:09 PM, MAR1979 said:

P.S. Any one know if Magazine sized slabs are affected?

Just checked my magazine sized copy of - I'll Be Damned #4 - which was graded this spring and yep, C curve. 

I'm afraid to pull out and look at my Swampy #1 9.6 which was pressed and slabbed a few months ago. 

[MAY1979]

On 8/5/2024 at 9:23 PM, ramrod44 said:

Just checked my magazine sized copy of - I'll Be Damned #4 - which was graded this spring and yep, C curve. 

I'm afraid to pull out and look at my Swampy #1 9.6 which was pressed and slabbed a few months ago. 

My thought was the additional mass would hinder the pressure from the inner well or that the process on the larger slabs differed. Perhaps not on both those counts.
 

Edited August 6 by MAR1979

[ramrod44]

On 8/5/2024 at 8:39 PM, MAR1979 said:

My thought was the additional mass would hinder the pressure from the inner well or that the process on the larger slabs differed. Perhaps not on both those counts.
 

You may be correct in that assessment because this issue is comic book thin despite being mag sized.

Looking at my other mag slabs I would be inclined to agree that the additional thickness might help offset the pressure from the warped inner well.

[Wookie]

22 books received from CGC on 8/1/24 and all have the inner well curved toward 1 end.  10 of them have the c curve.  I had all these books pressed by CGC.  If they had a spine tick then the warping makes them look like they have not been pressed.  It's hard to get decent pictures but here are examples. New Mutants show spine tick and then wave in the comic above Cable's left shoulder. The X-Men has 2 tick marks that show wave.  I'm not a pressing expert but they shouldn't look like that after they have been pressed. I contacted CGC customer service and they said a curve in the inner well happens and this does not damage the comics. I've got this effect on 9.6's, 9.2, 9.0, and 8.0.  A 9.8 I submitted has the c curve but it isn't displaying any defects.

 

 

[Stefan_W]

On 8/5/2024 at 10:25 PM, Wookie said:

22 books received from CGC on 8/1/24 and all have the inner well curved toward 1 end.  10 of them have the c curve.  I had all these books pressed by CGC.  If they had a spine tick then the warping makes them look like they have not been pressed.  It's hard to get decent pictures but here are examples. New Mutants show spine tick and then wave in the comic above Cable's left shoulder. The X-Men has 2 tick marks that show wave.  I'm not a pressing expert but they shouldn't look like that after they have been pressed. I contacted CGC customer service and they said a curve in the inner well happens and this does not damage the comics. I've got this effect on 9.6's, 9.2, 9.0, and 8.0.  A 9.8 I submitted has the c curve but it isn't displaying any defects.

 

 

This lines up pretty much exactly with what I was seeing when I tested it. The well does not allow enough space for the curve to cause damage, but it does make existing ticks more pronounced. A tick may show a bit more to a lot more depending on where it is on the spine. Sorry that your books look worse than they should. 

[DanJD]

On 8/5/2024 at 9:25 PM, Wookie said:

22 books received from CGC on 8/1/24 and all have the inner well curved toward 1 end.  10 of them have the c curve.  I had all these books pressed by CGC.  If they had a spine tick then the warping makes them look like they have not been pressed.  It's hard to get decent pictures but here are examples. New Mutants show spine tick and then wave in the comic above Cable's left shoulder. The X-Men has 2 tick marks that show wave.  I'm not a pressing expert but they shouldn't look like that after they have been pressed. I contacted CGC customer service and they said a curve in the inner well happens and this does not damage the comics. I've got this effect on 9.6's, 9.2, 9.0, and 8.0.  A 9.8 I submitted has the c curve but it isn't displaying any defects.

 

 

CS is wrong.  It clearly is damaging your comics.  Even if it’s only slightly making it worse, any amount is unacceptable.  I will also repeat that a warped inner well, even if it is not damaging the book, is unacceptable given the whole purpose of slabbing a comic.  It is not normal to bend a comic like that.  Sad to hear this was received this month which tells me it’s still not resolved.

*Also, cool books!

Edited August 6 by DanJD

[LordRahl]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:49 PM, Stefan_W said:

This lines up pretty much exactly with what I was seeing when I tested it. The well does not allow enough space for the curve to cause damage, but it does make existing ticks more pronounced. A tick may show a bit more to a lot more depending on where it is on the spine. Sorry that your books look worse than they should. 

I both agree and disagree with this. I believe you are correct in that it's accentuating spine ticks that were previously there. So if a spine tick was pressed out and then put in the concave well, the stress is reintroduced in that weak spot and the tick reappears with the paper around it bending. I do not think it's enough of a bend to put a spine tick on a "virgin" spine. However, I think other damage is being caused that can't be seen. If you have ever stored a comic in a bag with a similarly concave backing board for several years (which I have unfortunately) you would know what I'm talking about. The book will come out slightly bent and not laying flat. This would be impossible to see unless you broke it out of the slab and that only after several years of sitting in that bent well but it will happen. These wells are 100% causing damage to the books in them unfortunately, of that I have no doubt. 

[Stefan_W]

On 8/6/2024 at 12:00 AM, LordRahl said:

 If you have ever stored a comic in a bag with a similarly concave backing board for several years (which I have unfortunately) you would know what I'm talking about. The book will come out slightly bent and not laying flat. This would be impossible to see unless you broke it out of the slab and that only after several years of sitting in that bent well but it will happen. These wells are 100% causing damage to the books in them unfortunately, of that I have no doubt. 

I buy comic collections in varying sizes that total an average of about 10 thousand comics per year give or take. The ways in which books are stored in those collections varies, and I am very accustomed to seeing varying degrees of bends in comics if boxes are stored away that are not completely full. Mixed in with this, of course, is reading wear in some collections but not others (I've bought pristine modern collections). I have had to sort, organize, grade, and sometimes press comics that have been through all types of different stress. A C-curve that is approx a half an inch or less depending on the thickness of the book is what a case will allow, and I have worked on hundreds of raw books that I bought with curves of that size. Please keep in mind that these collections have often been stored in that position for a decade or more. I don't consider the curve itself to be a problem in the specific context of collection buying. The big problem with what is happening is the books are stuck in a position where they look pretty bad, for what they are, instead of looking really sharp. This means that if someone hates the way their slab looks they have to get it re-pressed and reholdered when it should have been done right to begin with. 

It is a discussion forum so you can doubt or not doubt whatever you like. I am a fact person, and I form opinions by testing things out and using direct evidence whenever possible. If someone presents evidence that shows something I had not considered I am more than happy to change my mind. So far nothing I have seen leads me to believe books are being damaged specifically by the bend in the inner well. If someone presents solid evidence that changes my mind down the road then so be it, but it hasn't happened so far. 

Edited August 6 by Stefan_W