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Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells?
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Started by LordRahl,

1,697 posts in this topic

MAY1979

MAY1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/19/2024 at 11:15 PM, Stefan_W said:

So this is kind of weird to me so I thought I would share. I was selecting a few Werewolf by Night and Tomb of Dracula books to crack for a resub and to take a few pictures of the inner wells with measurements, and as I was going through my collection it was less straightforward than I was expecting. Just sharing in case anyone else is interesting in seeing what I am seeing. 

The top photo has a slab number starting with 425 and was graded by someone else in Nov 2023, which is before changes to the slab were made in response to the switcheroo scam. The inner well on this one is a basic bowl shape we are seeing with all the new ones coming out. 

The middle photo shows two that I graded myself in March of this year with slab numbers that start with 439. I am showing only two of my slabs from this group - one with a bowl shaped bend and the other that is perfectly flat. A few others from this submission have a bend upwards on only one side a several others are also completely flat. 

The bottom photo shows a slab that I graded myself in Apr 2024 from the 441 series. It does have a slight bend on the top but most of the inner well is straight. I have a couple like this, but most of the bends in the others are more pronounced. I also saw way more of a mix than I was expecting with some of the bent ones bending a lot more than others. 

 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

Update to my personal guidelines based on evidence supplied in quoted post.  Please note this is very much in flux and sadly continues to trend downward.

1975-present:

  • CGC 437 series or higher is an instant swipe left for me! Exception only for purchasing at Cons or Shops and able to give the book a detailed viewing from all side edges
  • CGC 425-436  must see book in hand. No Online purchasing unless seller willing and able to provide clear high-res side view pics! Ensure purchase via Merchants with a buyer friendly return policy like MCS, Comiclink, eBay. Do not "get attached to the book" prior to viewing in person.
  • CGC 423-424  If purchasing Online Proceed with caution! ensure only via Merchants with a buyer friendly return policy like MCS, Comiclink, eBay. Do not "get attached to the book" prior to viewing in person.
  • CGC 422 and below (2016 or later slabs) Currently presumed safe? Still its best to see book in hand first. Also be aware of Newton Rings :(. If purchasing any post 2016 slab Online Proceed with caution!, safest if via Merchants/Entities with a buyer friendly return policy like MCS, Comiclink, eBay.

Pre-1975:

  • CGC 425 series or higher, slab by slab basis, see book in hand if possible. If purchasing Online Proceed with extreme caution! ensure only via Merchants with a buyer friendly return policy like MCS, Comiclink, eBay. Do not "get attached to the book" prior to viewing in person.
  • CGC 424 and below (2016 or later slabs) Currently presumed safe. Still its best to see book in hand first. Also be aware of Newton Rings :(. If purchasing what you feel is a higher value Comic Online Proceed with caution!, ensure it's only via Merchants/Entities with a buyer friendly return policy like MCS, Comiclink, eBay.
Edited by MAR1979
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LordRahl

LordRahl

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On 8/20/2024 at 7:33 AM, MAR1979 said:

CGC has stated the bending/curve is normal, thus all books should have it. It it was only one station then CGC's statement is false.

 

To be fair, the operations manager said it was "within normal tolerance", meaning anything from flat to apparently some undefined amount of curving. So flat is within the range of outcomes. The people saying it's normal are the CS reps who probably wouldn't know what an inner well is if you beat them over the head with it.

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Stefan_W

Stefan_W

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On 8/20/2024 at 11:48 AM, LordRahl said:

To be fair, the operations manager said it was "within normal tolerance", meaning anything from flat to apparently some undefined amount of curving. So flat is within the range of outcomes. The people saying it's normal are the CS reps who probably wouldn't know what an inner well is if you beat them over the head with it.

The bends I have seen recently are at the maximum allowed by the interior space within the case. So saying books with max bends are within normal tolerance is the same as saying all amounts of bending of the inner well after encapsulation is normal. 

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MAY1979

MAY1979

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Posted (edited)

Curious on how many books need to be submitted Per Annum to be given the premium service enjoyed by some where the books remain in their correct state of flat inside the slab?

Is it $100K? $200K? $500K? $1MM or more in business?

Edited by MAR1979
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Stuk

Stuk

Posted
Posted
On 8/19/2024 at 11:15 PM, Stefan_W said:

So this is kind of weird to me so I thought I would share. I was selecting a few Werewolf by Night and Tomb of Dracula books to crack for a resub and to take a few pictures of the inner wells with measurements, and as I was going through my collection it was less straightforward than I was expecting. Just sharing in case anyone else is interesting in seeing what I am seeing. 

The top photo has a slab number starting with 425 and was graded by someone else in Nov 2023, which is before changes to the slab were made in response to the switcheroo scam. The inner well on this one is a basic bowl shape we are seeing with all the new ones coming out. 

The middle photo shows two that I graded myself in March of this year with slab numbers that start with 439. I am showing only two of my slabs from this group - one with a bowl shaped bend and the other that is perfectly flat. A few others from this submission have a bend upwards on only one side a several others are also completely flat. 

The bottom photo shows a slab that I graded myself in Apr 2024 from the 441 series. It does have a slight bend on the top but most of the inner well is straight. I have a couple like this, but most of the bends in the others are more pronounced. I also saw way more of a mix than I was expecting with some of the bent ones bending a lot more than others. 

 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

The problem, such as it is, dates at least to mid 2023. Many (most) of my "modern" books slabbed by CGC in 2023 are not flat. Not all, and therefore, this is not definitive. What is definitive for me is that exactly 0 of my earlier slabbed books any such issues. From this forum, I don't think I'm alone. I don't think this is caused by a response to reholder scam. Maybe that accentuated what was already happening. 

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Stuk

Stuk

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On 8/19/2024 at 10:23 PM, MAR1979 said:

I like what you are saying but if they fix then how do they back out of their official stance of curving/concaving "is normal".  Seems to me they are in too deep and will only double down.

They will not have to back out of it. There is no one to press them (multiple puns), no media outlet that would question them. They will not have to explain themselves. They can just quietly make the adjustment on a going forward basis and take their chances with those who have already been affected. I just hope that EITHER (i) they make the adjustment OR (ii) it becomes clear that the bend is "normal" or, and above all, that the bend doesn't in fact, short term or long, harm the book (this last bit is the hardest to accept as it seems utterly counter-intuitive). 

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LordRahl

LordRahl

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On 8/20/2024 at 9:43 AM, Stefan_W said:

The bends I have seen recently are at the maximum allowed by the interior space within the case. So saying books with max bends are within normal tolerance is the same as saying all amounts of bending of the inner well after encapsulation is normal. 

Oh I get it and wasn't trying to defend it. I was just responding that apparently the New Normal can be anything from flat to curved as much as the outer case will allow and anything in between. 

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Dark Knight

Dark Knight

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On 8/19/2024 at 12:50 PM, MAR1979 said:

Based on CGC official CS message, curved is normal.  Therefore that one flat book is an anomaly and you must send it back posthaste to have the normal damage applied.

Sounds like the slab is suffering from peyronie's disease

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Benjamin1977

Benjamin1977

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Posted (edited)

Just got a modern 4 book submission back. 2 have no curved inner wells. 2 do -- big curve/flare out at the top of the books. Doesn't look like it damages the books, but I can't imagine over time it won't have an affect. Any thoughts on getting them to fix this through the ME process? Or am I just going to get them back with another 2 warped inner wells?

Edited by Benjamin1977
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MAY1979

MAY1979

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Posted
On 8/20/2024 at 5:47 PM, Benjamin1977 said:

Just got a modern 4 book submission back. 2 have no curved inner wells. 2 do -- big curve/flare out at the top of the books. Doesn't look like it's damages the books, but I can't imagine over time it won't have an affect. Any thoughts on getting them to fix this through the ME process? Or am I just going to get them back with another 2 warped inner wells?

If 2 were fine then no excuse the others are not.

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electricprune

electricprune

Posted
Posted
On 8/20/2024 at 5:47 PM, Benjamin1977 said:

Just got a modern 4 book submission back. 2 have no curved inner wells. 2 do -- big curve/flare out at the top of the books. Doesn't look like it's damages the books, but I can't imagine over time it won't have an affect. Any thoughts on getting them to fix this through the ME process? Or am I just going to get them back with another 2 warped inner wells?

You can send an email with pictures to Service@cgccomics.com. They will look at the pictures and determine if your slabs meet the requirements to return them under Mechanical Error. I wouldn’t be too hopeful though.

Send full slab pics and good pics of all the edges and any damages or irregularities as best you can.

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MAY1979

MAY1979

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Posted (edited)
On 8/20/2024 at 6:11 PM, electricprune said:

You can send an email with pictures to Service@cgccomics.com. They will look at the pictures and determine if your slabs meet the requirements to return them under Mechanical Error. I wouldn’t be too hopeful though.

Send full slab pics and good pics of all the edges and any damages or irregularities as best you can.

@Benjamin1977 in the event any merchant does not address a situation to your satisfaction as the consumer:

Remember you have the legal right (in the USA) to call your Credit Card Issuer and open a dispute - at ZERO expense to you the credit card holder.

CCCCHHHHHAAAARRRRGGGGEEEEBACKS!

image.png.46203998913f26466624ecbb6f394753.png

Edited by MAR1979
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Gator Guru

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On 8/20/2024 at 5:47 PM, Benjamin1977 said:

Just got a modern 4 book submission back. 2 have no curved inner wells. 2 do -- big curve/flare out at the top of the books. Doesn't look like it damages the books, but I can't imagine over time it won't have an affect. Any thoughts on getting them to fix this through the ME process? Or am I just going to get them back with another 2 warped inner wells?

Its fine dude. 

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Gator Guru

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On 8/20/2024 at 5:55 PM, MAR1979 said:

If 2 were fine then no excuse the others are not.

Just looks that way. CGC is in the right here. No wonder they have to continue pumping out the signings with all the insufficiently_thoughtful_persons that think their precious books are ruined. 😂 

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