Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 24 24

[Ninja0215]

On 8/17/2024 at 12:49 PM, MAR1979 said:

To complete the ledger; you spent all the money to have the book graded and slabbed, Now have cracked it out thus defeating that purpose and are left with a book that is worse (even if only by a little), due to the Slab inner well issue, then when you sent it in!

I've love the defenders to explain how that is in any way a positive thing. 

Where I come from what we have here is called a No Win Scenario or in today's vernacular; LOSE-LOSE or translated to Star Trek; Kobayashi Maru.  Which begs the question why on earth would an non-masicist collector continue to submit?

Quite right but I had to know. It's not going back to cgc; not in anyway, shape or form. My curiosity got thr best of me and well; won.  I don't belive thisnis true in ALL instances of warping but this is just one example.. 

[Ninja0215]

Cgx does need to address this problem and they need to do it now.  There's a lot of talk about Santa Ana winds and the clock is ticking. 

[Ninja0215]

[Yorick]

If someone has already cracked a book with the bent inner well, you won't need to compare it to other slabs.  Measure the bent slab cases: 1) inner well height of both heat-sealed sheets together (two sheets with the comic inside as a UNIT), and 2) the inside dimensional height of the cracked outer case.  Don't round out any numbers because every millimeter matters.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/17/2024 at 12:33 PM, Yorick said:

If someone has already cracked a book with the bent inner well, you won't need to compare it to other slabs.  Measure the bent slab cases: 1) inner well height of both heat-sealed sheets together (two sheets with the comic inside as a UNIT), and 2) the inside dimensional height of the cracked outer case.  Don't round out any numbers because every millimeter matters.

Americah!  

[Yorick]

On 8/17/2024 at 10:37 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Americah!

Big ole convention this weekend in San Jose, CA.  Close enough to drive to.  I gotta get outta here and take my bent CGC book to show off!

[MAY1979]

On 8/17/2024 at 1:44 PM, Yorick said:

Big ole convention this weekend in San Jose, CA.  Close enough to drive to.  I gotta get outta here and take my bent CGC book to show off!

and let the folks knows CGC's current official Customer Service Stance is it's normal and expected for CGC to damage your merchandise.

Edited August 17 by MAR1979

[Sauce Dog]

On 8/16/2024 at 10:28 PM, MAR1979 said:

^ not sure of which numerical series it starts but for now I'm considering 434 and lower as "safe".  435 & 436 may be a slab by slab basis?

Anything CGC 437 series or higher is an instant swipe left for me.

Some people on other boards are reporting their 434's are also bowed/warped inside.

[Stefan_W]

On 8/17/2024 at 1:33 PM, Yorick said:

If someone has already cracked a book with the bent inner well, you won't need to compare it to other slabs.  Measure the bent slab cases: 1) inner well height of both heat-sealed sheets together (two sheets with the comic inside as a UNIT), and 2) the inside dimensional height of the cracked outer case.  Don't round out any numbers because every millimeter matters.

You can try, but you are unlikely to get measurements that are accurate to the millimeter. A tiny deviation from absolute perpendicular is enough to throw out the measurement by a mill or two, and the inside of the case where there is space for the well is brutally hard to measure (I know from experience). 

The spirit of "no rounding" is correct but the practical side of this matters. 

[MAY1979]

On 8/17/2024 at 2:51 PM, Sauce Dog said:

Some people on other boards are reporting their 434's are also bowed/warped inside.

434 series was Oct/Nov 2023. I examined both my Vintage and Modern subs from the series and they look about same as the 395 series slabs I had handy for comparison.  My 434's are all pre-fixed 4342

If correct This makes the potential start date prior to "Slabgate" being identified. 

 

Re-calibrating:

1975-present (aka Modern from a submission standpoint) issue is epidemic.

pre-1975 (aka Vintage) appears significantly less affected. Still Best to proceed with caution, on a slab by slab basis.

Large 1975-present book submitter's, like JoeyPost for example, have alluded to not being affected.
 

My new current SOP:

I'm not sure of exactly within which numerical series the issue begins, but for now I'm considering 433 and lower as "safe".  

ALL 1975-present CGC 437 series or higher is an instant swipe left for me. 434 is definitely a slab by slab basis, 435 and 436 require vigilance, but easier for me to just avoid.
Pre-1975 CGC 437 series or higher, is slab by slab basis, meaning no online purchases! Must see in hand first.

 

Edited August 18 by MAR1979

[joeypost]

I just submitted books for my personal collection. 10 modern, 1 high value. I will post results of slab inspection when I get them back. 

[joeypost]

On 8/17/2024 at 4:49 PM, joeypost said:

I just submitted books for my personal collection. 10 modern, 1 high value. I will post results of slab inspection when I get them back. 

With pictures. 

[Phil Coulson]

Thought I'd share my story here and I'll do it as briefly as I can.  I recently won two separate auctions for 9.8 slabs from ComicLink and MyComicShop.  Both were $150-$300 books.  They were delivered about the same time and I could immediately tell something was wrong with them.  Each has obvious spine stresses causing bends on the front with 2-3 severe spine ticks between the staples. 

I reached out to customer service at each auction house and asked if they knew about this issue at CGC and each admitted they did but clearly didn't want to get into a discussion about it.  They had me send pics and a statement and both gave me a full refund.  In my opinion they were both liable as well since they also KNOW about the issue like everyone else does and shouldn't be selling the coming out of CGC right now.  Kudos to them for the refund and if you see it from an auction I suggest you send it back.  They are large enough that maybe, just maybe CGC will care what they think.  I think it's clear they don't care what the average Joe customer thinks.

My suggestion is to not slab any future orders with CGC until we know for sure it is corrected.  I personally won't do that nor purchase a CGC slab anywhere that was slabbed after June/July 2023.  If these guys made cars we'd all be looking at other models and that's exactly what I'm doing.

[electricprune]

On 8/17/2024 at 8:23 PM, Phil Coulson said:

Thought I'd share my story here and I'll do it as briefly as I can.  I recently won two separate auctions for 9.8 slabs from ComicLink and MyComicShop.  Both were $150-$300 books.  They were delivered about the same time and I could immediately tell something was wrong with them.  Each has obvious spine stresses causing bends on the front with 2-3 severe spine ticks between the staples. 

I reached out to customer service at each auction house and asked if they knew about this issue at CGC and each admitted they did but clearly didn't want to get into a discussion about it.  They had me send pics and a statement and both gave me a full refund.  In my opinion they were both liable as well since they also KNOW about the issue like everyone else does and shouldn't be selling the coming out of CGC right now.  Kudos to them for the refund and if you see it from an auction I suggest you send it back.  They are large enough that maybe, just maybe CGC will care what they think.  I think it's clear they don't care what the average Joe customer thinks.

My suggestion is to not slab any future orders with CGC until we know for sure it is corrected.  I personally won't do that nor purchase a CGC slab anywhere that was slabbed after June/July 2023.  If these guys made cars we'd all be looking at other models and that's exactly what I'm doing.

Thanks for posting this. If some of the bigger auction houses are taking books back, this will likely cause them to scrutinize these books. It may not make sense for them to sell them going forward. This will leave sellers and flippers with fewer options to unload them. Or, they might just realize lower selling prices.

Hopefully, CGC will have to take this more seriously at some point.

[MAY1979]

On 8/17/2024 at 8:23 PM, Phil Coulson said:

Thought I'd share my story here and I'll do it as briefly as I can.  I recently won two separate auctions for 9.8 slabs from ComicLink and MyComicShop.  Both were $150-$300 books.  They were delivered about the same time and I could immediately tell something was wrong with them.  Each has obvious spine stresses causing bends on the front with 2-3 severe spine ticks between the staples. 

I reached out to customer service at each auction house and asked if they knew about this issue at CGC and each admitted they did but clearly didn't want to get into a discussion about it.  They had me send pics and a statement and both gave me a full refund.  In my opinion they were both liable as well since they also KNOW about the issue like everyone else does and shouldn't be selling the coming out of CGC right now.  Kudos to them for the refund and if you see it from an auction I suggest you send it back.  They are large enough that maybe, just maybe CGC will care what they think.  I think it's clear they don't care what the average Joe customer thinks.

My suggestion is to not slab any future orders with CGC until we know for sure it is corrected.  I personally won't do that nor purchase a CGC slab anywhere that was slabbed after June/July 2023.  If these guys made cars we'd all be looking at other models and that's exactly what I'm doing.

On 8/17/2024 at 9:19 PM, electricprune said:

Thanks for posting this. If some of the bigger auction houses are taking books back, this will likely cause them to scrutinize these books. It may not make sense for them to sell them going forward. This will leave sellers and flippers with fewer options to unload them. Or, they might just realize lower selling prices.

Hopefully, CGC will have to take this more seriously at some point.

Folks - know that Heritage has been in bed with the Newport Beach CA folks for a long time on the Trading Card front. The same could be said of course for CGC on the Comics side - my point is Heritage already has an established mutual beneficial relation$hip so it may not take much effort (kickbacks,graft,seed money,etc) from the CA gang to extended that to Comics.

As for Comiclink and MCS well that's a different story they will likley eat returns and all associated costs, like they have for Newton Ring's and Shaken Comic Syndrome, as long they are exceptions. If the returns become semi-common they may alter their policies? This means the average buyer is out luck and out their money, unless CLink or MCS muster the courage to play hardball with CGC. My guess is they either can't or won't, as evidenced by their long time collective deafening silence regarding Newton Ring's and Shaken Comic Syndrome.

Edited August 18 by MAR1979

[DC#]

On 8/17/2024 at 12:26 PM, MAR1979 said:

434 series was Oct/Nov 2023. I examined both my Vintage and Modern subs from the series and they look about same as the 395 series slabs I had handy for comparison.  My 434's are all pre-fixed 4342

If correct This makes the potential start date prior to "Slabgate" being identified. 

 

Re-calibrating:

1975-present (aka Modern from a submission standpoint) issue is epidemic.

pre-1975 (aka Vintage) appears significantly less affected. Still Best to proceed with caution, on a slab by slab basis.

Large 1975-present book submitter's, like JoeyPost for example, have alluded to not being affected.
 

My new current SOP:

I'm not sure of exactly within which numerical series the issue begins, but for now I'm considering 433 and lower as "safe".  

ALL 1975-present CGC 437 series or higher is an instant swipe left for me. 434 is definitely a slab by slab basis, 435 and 436 require vigilance, but easier for me to just avoid.
Pre-1975 CGC 437 series or higher, is slab by slab basis, meaning no online purchases! Must see in hand first.

 

I did some random checks of slabs I have purchased in the past year (Clink, Instagram) - a mix of Bronze and Silver - and I did find some books in the 414 and 420 series that showed some of the same effects.    Strangely, some of those books were not bowed in a "C" but the inner well was very much on a slant with the top edge resting higher in the slab than the bottom edge.   There were even a few that were bowed in the opposite direction as most of the photos shown here.

 I also looked at some lower series 3rd Gen slabs (200s, 300s) and found many of the Silver age books have inner wells that actually sit at the bottom of the slab (so the back cover of the entire book seems to be resting much closer to the back of the slab).   It was hard to even see the book in the slab from the side because of the distorted view created by the thickness of the outer shell.   

[MAY1979]

On 8/18/2024 at 11:07 AM, DC# said:

I did some random checks of slabs I have purchased in the past year (Clink, Instagram) - a mix of Bronze and Silver - and I did find some books in the 414 and 420 series that showed some of the same effects.    Strangely, some of those books were not bowed in a "C" but the inner well was very much on a slant with the top edge resting higher in the slab than the bottom edge.   There were even a few that were bowed in the opposite direction as most of the photos shown here.

 I also looked at some lower series 3rd Gen slabs (200s, 300s) and found many of the Silver age books have inner wells that actually sit at the bottom of the slab (so the back cover of the entire book seems to be resting much closer to the back of the slab).   It was hard to even see the book in the slab from the side because of the distorted view created by the thickness of the outer shell.   

Seeing similar results. Appears a tiny bit of bowing may have been situation for long while, but totally dwarfed by the degree to which it is now. 

Received 2 books in mail yesterday; Series 091 and 101 2nd Gen slabs, both comics perfectly level and flat as a pancake. CS may say it bowing/concaving and associated damage it causes is "normal", but it's not good and its not right.

 

Edited August 18 by MAR1979

[Sauce Dog]

I have two identical books out for grading that I submitted a month ago before I really knew of all this, so will be interested to see how they come back as it will be even easier to compare since they were submitted/graded at the same time and are the same issues fairly close in condition (two copies of ASM #129). I would have preferred to wait but I only bought these copies to flip and have no attachment to the character and need to pay some bills

[LordRahl]

On 8/18/2024 at 8:07 AM, DC# said:

I did some random checks of slabs I have purchased in the past year (Clink, Instagram) - a mix of Bronze and Silver - and I did find some books in the 414 and 420 series that showed some of the same effects.    Strangely, some of those books were not bowed in a "C" but the inner well was very much on a slant with the top edge resting higher in the slab than the bottom edge.   There were even a few that were bowed in the opposite direction as most of the photos shown here.

 I also looked at some lower series 3rd Gen slabs (200s, 300s) and found many of the Silver age books have inner wells that actually sit at the bottom of the slab (so the back cover of the entire book seems to be resting much closer to the back of the slab).   It was hard to even see the book in the slab from the side because of the distorted view created by the thickness of the outer shell.   

Are you sure the inner well is actually bent and not just sitting at an angle within the outer shell?

[DC#]

On 8/18/2024 at 9:24 AM, LordRahl said:

Are you sure the inner well is actually bent and not just sitting at an angle within the outer shell?

Could be - hard to tell.   Will try to take pics later.