Trim JIM in Heritage Auction

[Theagenes]

 

8) Doug also said that he didn't know for sure that the book was trimmed (Qualitycomix had sent him a "before" scan, but Doug said he didn't remember receiving it) so there was no reason to believe Qualitycomix, especially since the book had been thru CGC's hands twice. (Doug had resubbed it again trying for a 9.6 grade.)

 

A 9.6 and a nice new "clean" serial number? I think this resub is key to Doug's intentions. If it had been resubbed specifically to check for Ewert trimming and still got past with a blue label, then I would say Doug had done everything he needed to do, even if it was a little shady to try and slip it under the radar via Heritage.

 

Bullsh1t...he did what he needed to do? It was an Ewert slab for god's sake. To conveinently "forget" the Ewert connection is cr@p No one in this hobby, especially anyone who frequents these boards, and Doug does, would forget an Ewert slab. This is a perfect example of someone trying to dump a tainted slab without disclosure. Which seems to be becoming the norm with most, my perception, of the major CGC dealers...

 

If someone can come up with a dealer at this point other the Blazing One, and maybe Ted and Doug, who seems on the up and up, I'm all ears...

 

Jim

 

Jim, I think you completely missed the point of my post. The "if''s" were the key words there. Maybe I should have italicized them. If a dealer has a Ewert book that he suspects may be trimmed and he sends it in for a check as per CGC and Brulato's offer and it still comes back blue, then yes that dealer has done all he can do. He else would you expect from him?

 

If , on the other hand, a dealer has a suspect Ewert book and he resubs it without telling CGC it was a Ewert book in order to get a new serial #, then he is trying to "launder" the book. That is a very different matter altogether.

 

From what qualitycomix has said, it appears that the latter was the case. I am not defending Doug; quite the contrary, actually - I was practically accusing him of fraud. I don't know him and I've never dealt with him - his books are way out of my league. I was just trying to give my opinion on the matter as an impartial bystander.

[Red Hook]

Brent,

 

After some digging I found the email you sent me about the JIM 92.......

 

It's dated October 11, 2005.

 

Brad

 

 

Brad,

 

Look at the JIM #92 on pedigree's site. I sold it to Jason as a 9.2. He resubbed it and it came back 9.4. He put it up on Doug's site. I knew it was the same book but I couldn't figure out how the corners became so sharp since they were previously somewhat soft. I knew pressing alone wouldn't do it but I couldn't figure out how (within the parameters of the game) he did it. Now we know. Doug has been contacted to let his customer know about the book.

 

Also, Borock mentioned to Bob and on the boards that this has only been going on for 6 - 9 months. He bought the JIM #92 from me last November, so the time period may be much longer.

 

Brent

 

 

.... just for clarification.

[shadroch]

Weren't you previously a big supporter of CGC?

 

Jim

 

In a nutshell,yes.

When I first heard about them I thought it was a terrible idea. Then when I started seeing the money slabs were bringing,and how certain suspect dealers were being outed, I came to support them. But over the last year,I have begun to see that they are dead center in a number of growing scandals,and Steve B,whose company I greatly enjoy,can't answer a direct question about different tiers.When they set up a repair shop to bring out the potential in books,when they can't answer questions about who even owns the company,ect,ect,ad nauseum..

So,you can say I have flip-flopped on the issue of CGC,and may again,if they ever get their house in order.

[awe4one]

Brent,

 

After some digging I found the email you sent me about the JIM 92.......

 

It's dated October 11, 2005.

 

Brad

 

 

Brad,

 

Look at the JIM #92 on pedigree's site. I sold it to Jason as a 9.2. He resubbed it and it came back 9.4. He put it up on Doug's site. I knew it was the same book but I couldn't figure out how the corners became so sharp since they were previously somewhat soft. I knew pressing alone wouldn't do it but I couldn't figure out how (within the parameters of the game) he did it. Now we know. Doug has been contacted to let his customer know about the book.

 

Also, Borock mentioned to Bob and on the boards that this has only been going on for 6 - 9 months. He bought the JIM #92 from me last November, so the time period may be much longer.

 

Brent

 

 

.... just for clarification.

 

Why didn't you mention any of this when the the trimmng thread started?

 

Jim

[Red Hook]

Mention what? This was Brent's story to tell. What would I have said? Brent wasn't casting any suspicion on Doug in his email. It was pretty cut and dry. I didn't know the later details.

[Norrin_Radd]

Well this is a long and interesting read.

 

For those just joining, Doug Schmell consigned a JIM to Heritage several months after being informed that it was trimmed by the original owner (qualitycomix) and Red Hook.

 

 

 

As was stated earlier in this thread... "Gotta be careful who you defend in this environment".

[Red Hook]

By the way Jim...... as far as I can tell, you got the same e-mail as I did on October 11. You should check on that.

 

 

Brad

[awe4one]

What are you talking about? I just checked all my e-mails and never received one concerning this comic...if so I would have sent the warning flags up...

 

You obviously did....why didn't you? :

 

Jim

[jimm94]

this isn't about Brad, guys.

 

focus on the real problem.

 

 

the one piece of information it would be nice to get is whether or not Doug told CGC when he resubmitted it that it was from Ewert, or if he just sent it in blind hoping for a grade bump

 

Do you really beleive it didn't cross his mind this was an Ewert slab? Considering all the action it's generated on this Forum? He has to be blind and dumb.to say otherwise...

 

Jim

 

It was revealed much earlier in this thread by qualitycomix that the current owner (who is now revealed to be Doug) did not send the book in specifically for a Ewert trim check. It was a stright re-sub.

[esquirecomics]

I agree guys, let's stay focused on the issue, not each other. We are all seemingly moving together on the same side.

[esquirecomics]

Weren't you previously a big supporter of CGC?

 

Jim

 

In a nutshell,yes.

When I first heard about them I thought it was a terrible idea. Then when I started seeing the money slabs were bringing,and how certain suspect dealers were being outed, I came to support them. But over the last year,I have begun to see that they are dead center in a number of growing scandals,and Steve B,whose company I greatly enjoy,can't answer a direct question about different tiers.When they set up a repair shop to bring out the potential in books,when they can't answer questions about who even owns the company,ect,ect,ad nauseum..

So,you can say I have flip-flopped on the issue of CGC,and may again,if they ever get their house in order.

 

Hey, nothing wrong with changing opinions. Don't fault Shad for seeing the light. That is exactly what education and experience is all about.

[jimm94]

 

 

 

You guys know that there is a crucial inaccuracy on this otherwise beautiful chart, right?

[esquirecomics]

If , on the other hand, a dealer has a suspect Ewert book and he resubs it without telling CGC it was a Ewert book in order to get a new serial #, then he is trying to "launder" the book. That is a very different matter altogether.

 

If anyone has the time, or energy, to read through the initial posts you will see that Brent and I had an exchange on this very point, and to the best of anyone's knowledge Doug did not inform CGC when he resubbed the book that it was a suspected (or really known) Ewert trim job.

[esquirecomics]

I, for one, would enjoy a discussion that focuses on facts and issues, and avoids personal comments. Speaking of the facts, there is some information that is missing before I can draw my own conclusions about the grading of this book by CGC and selling on Heritage.

 

 

First issue: Brulato has stated publicly his willingness to reimburse anyone who purchased a book found later to have been trimmed while under Jason Ewert's control. So: why wouldn't an owner of a Ewert/Brulato book alert CGC to this provenance during the resubmission process or, alternatively, just sell the book back to Brulato?

 

I think you already know the answer to this one.

 

Second issue: why would the trimming be missed a second time by an ostensibly alert and newly-educated CGC?

 

Because trimming is the hardest form of restoration to detect, and b/c CGC has kept its head in the sand with respect to maintaining scans of books in order to conduct comparisons. Hopefully that will now finally change.

 

Third issue: having passed through CGC hands a second time with an unrestored blue label, could a dealer sell this book with a reasonable expectation that it is, indeed, unrestored?

 

Under these specific circumstances and the evidence, I don't think so. This second pass is more reflective of the fallacies of CGC's restoration detection than an indication of legitimatcy. The situation would have been different, of course, had he alerted CGC to the facts and then they still determined it to be unrestored. But that is not what happened.

 

Fourth issue (a position statement): for CGC restoration detection to have any credibility going forward, it must institute some sort of digital recordkeeping to identify books such as this that have received a hard-to-detect microtrim.

 

[tth2]

I guess Brad has a different idea of straightforward and upright tan the rest of the world.

 

You know Shad....you are a big misanthropic [embarrassing lack of self control]. This is the first I know of this sequence of events. Why the personal attack?

 

This is the first time I heard about the book moving on from Doug. Needless to say, it's disappointing and knocks the legs out of my argument in the other thread.

 

Get over yourself.

 

Red

It's tough taking a stand that's different from everyone else and getting attacked personally for it, huh?

[FFB]

 

8) Doug also said that he didn't know for sure that the book was trimmed (Qualitycomix had sent him a "before" scan, but Doug said he didn't remember receiving it) so there was no reason to believe Qualitycomix, especially since the book had been thru CGC's hands twice. (Doug had resubbed it again trying for a 9.6 grade.)

 

A 9.6 and a nice new "clean" serial number? I think this resub is key to Doug's intentions. If it had been resubbed specifically to check for Ewert trimming and still got past with a blue label, then I would say Doug had done everything he needed to do, even if it was a little shady to try and slip it under the radar via Heritage.

 

Bullsh1t...he did what he needed to do? It was an Ewert slab for god's sake. To conveinently "forget" the Ewert connection is cr@p No one in this hobby, especially anyone who frequents these boards, and Doug does, would forget an Ewert slab. This is a perfect example of someone trying to dump a tainted slab without disclosure. Which seems to be becoming the norm with most, my perception, of the major CGC dealers...

 

If someone can come up with a dealer at this point other the Blazing One, and maybe Ted and Doug, who seems on the up and up, I'm all ears...

 

Jim

 

Marc Newman, www.houseofcomics.com

 

I presume by "Doug" you meant Doug Sulipa?

[FFB]

I, for one, would enjoy a discussion that focuses on facts and issues, and avoids personal comments. Speaking of the facts, there is some information that is missing before I can draw my own conclusions about the grading of this book by CGC and selling on Heritage.

 

First issue: Brulato has stated publicly his willingness to reimburse anyone who purchased a book found later to have been trimmed while under Jason Ewert's control. So: why wouldn't an owner of a Ewert/Brulato book alert CGC to this provenance during the resubmission process or, alternatively, just sell the book back to Brulato?

 

Second issue: why would the trimming be missed a second time by an ostensibly alert and newly-educated CGC?

 

Third issue: having passed through CGC hands a second time with an unrestored blue label, could a dealer sell this book with a reasonable expectation that it is, indeed, unrestored?

 

Fourth issue (a position statement): for CGC restoration detection to have any credibility going forward, it must institute some sort of digital recordkeeping to identify books such as this that have received a hard-to-detect microtrim.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Brulato only agreed to buy back books he co-owned with Jason?

[FFB]

What are you talking about? I just checked all my e-mails and never received one concerning this comic...if so I would have sent the warning flags up...

 

You obviously did....why didn't you? :

 

Jim

 

Your holier-than-thou routine is getting old. Knock it off.

[qualitycomix]

Brent,

 

After some digging I found the email you sent me about the JIM 92.......

 

It's dated October 11, 2005.

 

Brad

 

 

Brad,

 

Look at the JIM #92 on pedigree's site. I sold it to Jason as a 9.2. He resubbed it and it came back 9.4. He put it up on Doug's site. I knew it was the same book but I couldn't figure out how the corners became so sharp since they were previously somewhat soft. I knew pressing alone wouldn't do it but I couldn't figure out how (within the parameters of the game) he did it. Now we know. Doug has been contacted to let his customer know about the book.

 

Also, Borock mentioned to Bob and on the boards that this has only been going on for 6 - 9 months. He bought the JIM #92 from me last November, so the time period may be much longer.

 

Brent

 

 

.... just for clarification.

 

Thanks for clarifying that Hook. So I emailed you directly AFTER I emailed Doug instead of before. I know that I emailed someone else BEFORE Doug who was handling the Ewert registry stuff. I thought that someone was you. My apologies.

[Red Hook]

Brent,

 

After some digging I found the email you sent me about the JIM 92.......

 

It's dated October 11, 2005.

 

Brad

 

 

Brad,

 

Look at the JIM #92 on pedigree's site. I sold it to Jason as a 9.2. He resubbed it and it came back 9.4. He put it up on Doug's site. I knew it was the same book but I couldn't figure out how the corners became so sharp since they were previously somewhat soft. I knew pressing alone wouldn't do it but I couldn't figure out how (within the parameters of the game) he did it. Now we know. Doug has been contacted to let his customer know about the book.

 

Also, Borock mentioned to Bob and on the boards that this has only been going on for 6 - 9 months. He bought the JIM #92 from me last November, so the time period may be much longer.

 

Brent

 

 

.... just for clarification.

 

Why didn't you mention any of this when the the trimmng thread started?

 

Jim

 

Why aren't you quizzing those who apparently had the FULL story for a while? Your sermonizing is extremely misdirected. I'm still not sure exactly what you would have wanted reported. You still sound confused to me.