Trim JIM in Heritage Auction

[mar-vell]

looks like heritage withdrew the book from their auction!

[batman_fan]

Well, it is Friday and no response from CGC yet. Any speculation of whether they will make a "special" guest appearance today?

[awe4one]

Probably not...silence seems to be there mantra...

 

Jim

[mica]

With newbies showing up yesterday and starting ten threads I was afraid good threads like these would fall of the radar. One newbie barely 6 hours old racked up 33 posts and 5 threads. Sorry for the rant.

[drbanner]

With newbies showing up yesterday and starting ten threads I was afraid good threads like these would fall of the radar. One newbie barely 6 hours old racked up 33 posts and 5 threads. Sorry for the rant.

 

Newbie? KK up to his old/new tricks...

[Timulty]

Hey you ever wonder if these shills purpose is to actually keep the level of griping on CGC down? I mean, if they dilute the forum with numerous info requests, it makes the forum look like there isn't that much of a controversy going around. That's a thought, anyway.

[mica]

Hey you ever wonder if these shills purpose is to actually keep the level of griping on CGC down? I mean, if they dilute the forum with numerous info requests, it makes the forum look like there isn't that much of a controversy going around. That's a thought, anyway.

You are learning. But be prepared to be called a conspiracy nut. Even though no one can prove you're wrong.

[Aman619]

you mean like clowns at a rodeo?

 

nahhh. They're just clowns here who like to party hardy! It would really suck if we had to finally come to grips with undercover paid thread-busters!!

[mica]

I know. And I don't really believe that. But it does accomplish the same thing in the end.

[garthgantu]

Garth, unless you have some reason to believe that CGC played a knowing and complicit role in what Ewert did, I think it is laughable, ridiculous, and lame as all hell for you to say that they "facilitated" his fraud. That's like saying that a store owner "facilitated" the mafia's extortion of him by paying the mobsters protection money.

 

Why are you so interested in deflecting blame away from Ewert? Does the guy owe you money or something? Or are you just so hungry to take a shot at CGC that you'll latch on to every opportunity to do it?

 

Scott: I have no reason to believe CGC was complicit in Ewert's activities - all I'm saying is, where does CGC draw the line between "sucker" and "fraudster" ? Sure, in Ewert's case it's clear that he defrauded the industry knowingly. What if an average collector or dealer got their hands on 50 or 500 books that had been trimmed in a similar way, and began sending them in to CGC, not knowing that they'd been trimmed? Does CGC contact the submitter at the point where they realize the books are trimmed, and require the submitter to name names? What's the policy, that's all I'm asking.

 

But CGC doesn't disclose many of their policies, and doesn't seem to like to have policies at all for things like this - they just play it by ear. Again, that's fine when your resto detection is relatively airtight, but at this juncture, it seems like some more formal policy is warranted.

 

And no, I never purchased from Ewert - but as I stated once before, I'm surprised that more examples of his 'work' haven't materialized, as I was under the (mistaken?) impression that many board members were Ewert customers. Where are all the Ewert 'gems' sold to board members, are they resubbing them at seeking restitution from Ewert or Brulato, and if not, why not?

[FFB]

Garth, unless you have some reason to believe that CGC played a knowing and complicit role in what Ewert did, I think it is laughable, ridiculous, and lame as all hell for you to say that they "facilitated" his fraud. That's like saying that a store owner "facilitated" the mafia's extortion of him by paying the mobsters protection money.

 

Why are you so interested in deflecting blame away from Ewert? Does the guy owe you money or something? Or are you just so hungry to take a shot at CGC that you'll latch on to every opportunity to do it?

 

Scott: I have no reason to believe CGC was complicit in Ewert's activities - all I'm saying is, where does CGC draw the line between "sucker" and "fraudster" ? Sure, in Ewert's case it's clear that he defrauded the industry knowingly. What if an average collector or dealer got their hands on 50 or 500 books that had been trimmed in a similar way, and began sending them in to CGC, not knowing that they'd been trimmed? Does CGC contact the submitter at the point where they realize the books are trimmed, and require the submitter to name names? What's the policy, that's all I'm asking.

 

But CGC doesn't disclose many of their policies, and doesn't seem to like to have policies at all for things like this - they just play it by ear. Again, that's fine when your resto detection is relatively airtight, but at this juncture, it seems like some more formal policy is warranted.

 

And no, I never purchased from Ewert - but as I stated once before, I'm surprised that more examples of his 'work' haven't materialized, as I was under the (mistaken?) impression that many board members were Ewert customers. Where are all the Ewert 'gems' sold to board members, are they resubbing them at seeking restitution from Ewert or Brulato, and if not, why not?

 

The difference is, Ewert lied about where he got the books. The lie was proved to be a lie. That's how it's different from your ordinary joe who buys a trimmed collection.

[esquirecomics]

I just checked with the owner. The book was resubmitted in Oct. to try for a 9.6 and to check for the trimming that I had suggested to him.

 

Brent, so is this to say that you now don't believe the current owner did anything wrong, i.e., that upon resubmission they specifically informed CGC that this book had passed through Ewert's hands so that CGC would methodically check for trimming?

 

Is there a trust or integrity issue we need to be concerned about with the current owner, at least with respect to this specific book?

 

Brent, my how things have moved forward since this post.

[qualitycomix]

I just checked with the owner. The book was resubmitted in Oct. to try for a 9.6 and to check for the trimming that I had suggested to him.

 

Brent, so is this to say that you now don't believe the current owner did anything wrong, i.e., that upon resubmission they specifically informed CGC that this book had passed through Ewert's hands so that CGC would methodically check for trimming?

 

Is there a trust or integrity issue we need to be concerned about with the current owner, at least with respect to this specific book?

 

Brent, my how things have moved forward since this post.

 

This whole thread is ironic and saddening to me. I regret not speaking more candidly. I was disappointed then, and I'm even more disappointed and disheartened now.

[esquirecomics]

I just checked with the owner. The book was resubmitted in Oct. to try for a 9.6 and to check for the trimming that I had suggested to him.

 

Brent, so is this to say that you now don't believe the current owner did anything wrong, i.e., that upon resubmission they specifically informed CGC that this book had passed through Ewert's hands so that CGC would methodically check for trimming?

 

Is there a trust or integrity issue we need to be concerned about with the current owner, at least with respect to this specific book?

 

Brent, my how things have moved forward since this post.

 

This whole thread is ironic and saddening to me. I regret not speaking more candidly. I was disappointed then, and I'm even more disappointed and disheartened now.

 

I got tired of scrolling through the whole thread, but did you ever come "clean" on what you knew?

[qualitycomix]

I just checked with the owner. The book was resubmitted in Oct. to try for a 9.6 and to check for the trimming that I had suggested to him.

 

Brent, so is this to say that you now don't believe the current owner did anything wrong, i.e., that upon resubmission they specifically informed CGC that this book had passed through Ewert's hands so that CGC would methodically check for trimming?

 

Is there a trust or integrity issue we need to be concerned about with the current owner, at least with respect to this specific book?

 

Brent, my how things have moved forward since this post.

 

This whole thread is ironic and saddening to me. I regret not speaking more candidly. I was disappointed then, and I'm even more disappointed and disheartened now.

 

I got tired of scrolling through the whole thread, but did you ever come "clean" on what you knew?

 

No.

 

I don't want to come off like I am someone with an agenda or vendetta. Was never my intent, especially when reputations are at stake.

[Scheradon]

I just checked with the owner. The book was resubmitted in Oct. to try for a 9.6 and to check for the trimming that I had suggested to him.

 

Brent, so is this to say that you now don't believe the current owner did anything wrong, i.e., that upon resubmission they specifically informed CGC that this book had passed through Ewert's hands so that CGC would methodically check for trimming?

 

Is there a trust or integrity issue we need to be concerned about with the current owner, at least with respect to this specific book?

 

Brent, my how things have moved forward since this post.

 

This whole thread is ironic and saddening to me. I regret not speaking more candidly. I was disappointed then, and I'm even more disappointed and disheartened now.

 

I got tired of scrolling through the whole thread, but did you ever come "clean" on what you knew?

 

No.

 

I don't want to come off like I am someone with an agenda or vendetta. Was never my intent, especially when reputations are at stake.

 

Should these last few posts worry the community?

[qualitycomix]

Should these last few posts worry the community?

 

It's minor compared to what's going on now, and I'm not going to be accused of pushing a vendetta/agenda.

[BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio]

It's minor compared to what's going on now, and I'm not going to be accused of pushing a vendetta/agenda.

 

P.M. it to me and I'll post it!

 

They they can accuse me of pushing a vendetta/agenda and I'll tell them to go to hell.

[garthgantu]

The difference is, Ewert lied about where he got the books. The lie was proved to be a lie. That's how it's different from your ordinary joe who buys a trimmed collection.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You can disagree from on high, with the lawyer's hat on, and I'll disagree from down in the street with the laypeople.

 

To me, CGC claiming that it provides restoration detection, and then not being able to detect certain forms of it (and equally distressing, simply labeling other forms of what many consider resto as "not restoration") seems like shaky ground to stand on as a service provider. You are presenting your service as a kind of 'seal of approval' and giving buyers - who are paying a sometimes very significant premium for your seal of approval - a false sense of security.

 

It's a bit like hiring an expert to tell you that the Monet you're about to purchase is in fact an original and not a forgery, and then you somehow determine after the fact that the painting IS a forgery, and the 'expert' you hired says "read the fine print - I never actually guaranteed anything stated in my assessment." Wouldn't you have some legal recourse with that 'expert' ?

[qualitycomix]

It's minor compared to what's going on now, and I'm not going to be accused of pushing a vendetta/agenda.

 

P.M. it to me and I'll post it!

 

They they can accuse me of pushing a vendetta/agenda and I'll tell them to go to hell.

 

I spoke with Mark (esquirecomics) and we both agreed that in light of the circumstances that have presented themselves in the past few days that I should post this info regarding the Journey #92 Trimmed book. These are the facts as I remember them to the best of my knowledge:

 

1) Qualitycomix emailed Redhook about the JIM #92 saying it was a trimming suspect and that it was on Doug's Schmell's site (PedigreeComics).

 

2) Although Redhook didn't respond to the email, it appears he did contact Doug to inform him of the suspect book on his site.

 

3) Qualitycomix then emailed Doug and said that the book was probably trimmed. He included the before scan so Doug would have something to compare it to.

 

4) Doug replied that he already knew about it (thru Red Hook) and that he would take care of it. Doug also mentioned that a previous buyer had fallen thru for the book, and that he had to keep it because he had already forwarded the money for the book to Brulato/Ewert.

 

5) Months later, the book appears on Heritage. This is when Qualitycomix decided it was necessary to post the book on the boards to alert everyone.

 

7) Doug indicated to Qualitycomix that he had forgotten about the book and that he wished he had remembered because then he could've gotten his money back from Brulato.

 

8) Doug also said that he didn't know for sure that the book was trimmed (Qualitycomix had sent him a "before" scan, but Doug said he didn't remember receiving it) so there was no reason to believe Qualitycomix, especially since the book had been thru CGC's hands twice. (Doug had resubbed it again trying for a 9.6 grade.)

 

Originally, I sent this info to BlackHeartedDwarf to post because of his above comment. He kindly paraphrased and helped word the timeline. In the end, I decided it best to post this myself.