Trim JIM in Heritage Auction

[skybolt]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it was just a reholder?

but werent they supposed to be re-graded and not just re-holdered? Thats what I want to say that Steve said would happen. Just another question that needs addressing.

 

So if CGC still can't identify this type of trimming, does that mean all the Ewert books that were given a clean bill of health (after being re-examined) are back under scrutiny again?!

[arexcrooke]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it was just a reholder?

but werent they supposed to be re-graded and not just re-holdered? Thats what I want to say that Steve said would happen. Just another question that needs addressing.

 

So if CGC still can't identify this type of trimming, does that mean all the Ewert books that were given a clean bill of health (after being re-examined) are back under scrutiny again?!

It would be nice to know which books were under suspicion.

I would say that, yes, anybook that was given a clean bill of health from an Ewert submission would be suspect.

One has already been caught.

[burntboy]

It's definatley the same copy. So much for CGC (and it's minority owners) tracking them down.

Well, it would have been nice when the Ewert database was being compiled if Brent had identified that this particular book had been sold to Ewert.

 

Brent, any other JIMs (or other improveable books) that were sold to Ewert?

 

Could someone figure out the date when this book was submitted to CGC? If it happened after the Ewert fiasco came to light, it would be really damning for CGC.

 

I remember mentioning some books that I had sold to one the players in compiling the list, but I don't remember who or when I did it. Sorry.

 

Also, I'm not going to reveal names but I tracked down the current owner of this book 2 months or so ago (my dates may be off). I thought this person would do the right thing and contact CGC and go thru whatever established process there was to remove the book from the marketplace forever. I was wrong. And now I'm doubly pissed off because now another person would've been stuck with a Ewert book and I trusted the current owner of the book to do the right thing.

 

As alexcrooke mentioned, that could've been the reason for the resubmit date of 10/13/2005.

 

I'll have to contact Heritage on Monday and ask them about pulling this book.

 

Something else just dawned on me. CGC didn't catch the resto on the resubmit.

 

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it was just a reholder?

 

well. another lovely Sunday morning gets thrashed...................Yikes.

 

but i think i came to the conclusion that Ewerts (or whoever did it) work was so good, that CGC wasn't able to catch it consistently. (i think Steve owned up to that in his response). therefore, this isn't surprising......................

 

i think i'll go shower and head over to the meadowlands, watch my Giants and forget about all of this for the day............

 

of course the submit date is perplexing

[skybolt]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it was just a reholder?

but werent they supposed to be re-graded and not just re-holdered? Thats what I want to say that Steve said would happen. Just another question that needs addressing.

 

So if CGC still can't identify this type of trimming, does that mean all the Ewert books that were given a clean bill of health (after being re-examined) are back under scrutiny again?!

It would be nice to know which books were under suspicion.

I would say that, yes, anybook that was given a clean bill of health from an Ewert submission would be suspect.

One has already been caught.

 

There are two possibilities here:

 

Either,

 

A.) The owner knew it was probably trimmed and tried to sneak the book past CGC by taking it out of its slab and submitting it raw. This scenario should really encourage CGC to implement the scanning procedure now (before grading anymore books), to resolve this issue. They're obviously having problems detecting this type of hairline trimming.

 

Or,

 

B.) The book was submitted in its original slab as a previously owned Ewert book, and CGC still gave it a clean bill of health. In my opinion this is more worrisome than the first possibility. If true, it means that even though CGC was given a heads up that trimming was probably involved with this book, they still missed it. With this occurring after CGC came out and said that they feel confident that they can spot this sort of trimming is really problematic.

[sterlingcomics]

Brent,

 

From the Ewert inventory list I compiled some months ago, only one JIM #92 was found--cert #: 0098374016, and it was only an 8.0 graded in August 2004. Probably wasn't the same book. (unless someone has pics from that book when Ewert sold it to corroborate?)

 

If there is evidence that Ewert submitted the now 9.4, I can do additional research. I don't know if we know who submitted/trimmed the book now being sold on Heritage, although Ewert would've been a good default.

 

These are the suspect JIM books in the Ewert inventory currently (and it looks like the resub game was being played on a few) as an FYI:

 

Journey Into Mystery  100  0098482003 .0  OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  100  0709125003 9.0  OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  101  0098482004 .0  OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  101  0709125002 9.4  OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  102  0098433004 9.2  OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  102  0098482005 .0  OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  102  0709125001 9.4  OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  103  0098423003 9.4  OFF-WHITE TO WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  105  0098482006 9.4  WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  106  0065070017 9.4  OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  107  0098482007 .0  CREAM TO OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  108  0626901024 9.2  OFF-WHITE TO WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  117  0098473005 9.2  OFF-WHITE TO WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  117  0703046002 9.4  WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  119  0065070018 .0  WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  121  0065070019 9.6  OFF-WHITE TO WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  7  0080549001 9.6  WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  86  0098468019 7.5  CREAM TO OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  90  0098459002 7.5  CREAM TO OFF-WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  92  0098374016 8.0  WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  99  0609275005 .0  OFF-WHITE TO WHITE 

Journey Into Mystery  99  0709125004 9.4  OFF-WHITE TO WHITE 

 

Again, if anyone has any knowledge of invoices or books that are known to have been purchased by Ewert, please PM me that information to make the data more accurate.

 

Sterling

[Timulty]

So, who here is going to compose a letter to Steve Borock and calmly state the facts, on this book up for auction?

[Sal]

So, who here is going to compose a letter to Steve Borock and calmly state the facts, on this book up for auction?

 

no need to. this thread should be sufficient, based on past experience

[batman_fan]

So now the ultra-pro CGC fans will have to say, so it is only three books out of ...

 

In my book that is still too many.

[OldGuy]

Don't worry guys, if CGC can't detect it then it's not restoration.

[jbcomicbox]

I have been reading the multiple threads on this issue and re-submissions with interest.

 

On this issue of trimming. It appears that this is a very sophisticated process performed by a sophisticated individual. How hard is it for CGC or Heritage to "make some inquiries" (if they have NOT already done so) and identify this individual? I would suspect that he has a list of books he performed work on- if for nothing else- invoicing. IF these companies have a serious interest in cleaning up this 'stain', find and identify the trimmer and obtain the list.

 

If this was in litigation, fundamental discovery would have this information in short order.

 

jon

[The Black Hand ®]

And of course it's not just three books, who knows how many books the same individual or individuals now have up on heritage? We look at a Boy Comics and assume the seller has just one altered book up. We really need an ongoing live dialogue with CGC about this. We need specific questions answered.

[arexcrooke]

One of the things that keeps bothering me is how Hammer was outed and yet, nothing has been mentioned about Ewert in any publication. The main parts of the Ewert scandal are known and accepted as fact, yet nothing has been printed.

This is strange and confusing.

[esquirecomics]

If this was in litigation, fundamental discovery would have this information in short order.

 

And it will be shortly Jon.

 

And I daresay any owner of an Ewert book who knows or has sufficient reason to know they are in possession of an Ewert book that has been trimmed yet proceeds to try and sell the book without disclosure will have their records subpoenaed and will be publicly identified.

 

At the end of the day there may be other dealers/sellers who are stigmatized as a result of Ewert's actions. The cover-up always results in more casualties than the actual shooting.

[arexcrooke]

If this was in litigation, fundamental discovery would have this information in short order.

 

And it will be shortly Jon.

 

And I daresay any owner of an Ewert book who knows or has sufficient reason to know they are in possession of an Ewert book that has been trimmed yet proceeds to try and sell the book without disclosure will have their records subpoenaed and will be publicly identified.

 

At the end of the day there may be other dealers/sellers who are stigmatized as a result of Ewert's actions. The cover-up always results in more casualties than the actual shooting.

What was it that FFB said?

Tell the truth, tell the whole truth or something like that.

[ronm3-migration]

I would love to see a list of all of the problems there have been with CGC just so I could gage how big of a problem this could possibly be. Then as to whether or not I should actually buy slabbed books anymore.

I am about to spend an awful lot of money on slabbed books.

[Theagenes]

Well, only two weeks to go until the Heritage auction. I wonder how many other "surprises" will pop up between now and then. I have my eye on one slab that I'll be bidding on, but it's a nice, safe, cheap VG+ 4.5.

 

Seriously though, who was it that during the Ewert scandal used the serial numbers to identify the other books in the same submission. Can somebody do that with this one so maybe we can try and see if there are anymore "laundered" Ewert books in this auction?

[qualitycomix]

Well, only two weeks to go until the Heritage auction. I wonder how many other "surprises" will pop up between now and then. I have my eye on one slab that I'll be bidding on, but it's a nice, safe, cheap VG+ 4.5.

 

Seriously though, who was it that during the Ewert scandal used the serial numbers to identify the other books in the same submission. Can somebody do that with this one so maybe we can try and see if there are anymore "laundered" Ewert books in this auction?

 

This one was submitted by itself as far as I can tell.

[Theagenes]

This one was submitted by itself as far as I can tell.

 

Well, so much for that. Since this the first signiture auction since the Ewert scandal broke it wouldn't surprise me if there a few more tainted books in there as owners try to dump them.

[Red Hook]

Well, only two weeks to go until the Heritage auction. I wonder how many other "surprises" will pop up between now and then. I have my eye on one slab that I'll be bidding on, but it's a nice, safe, cheap VG+ 4.5.

 

....it started out as a 0.5.

[arexcrooke]

Well, only two weeks to go until the Heritage auction. I wonder how many other "surprises" will pop up between now and then. I have my eye on one slab that I'll be bidding on, but it's a nice, safe, cheap VG+ 4.5.

 

....it started out as a 0.5.