PGX just stepped on an Atom Bomb. A classic tale of deceit, trimming,and woe.

[Mr. Zipper]

Again, I'm not defending PGX, but I think measured and responsible responses are called for.

 

I'm a little puzzled as to why we've seen countless cases of CGC mystery upgrades, Ewert and the like, yet no one was launching websites devoted to these topics within one day or email spamming thousands of comic collectors. Yet all of this has been proposed within 24 hours of damning information arising on PGX.

 

Yes, it looks bad for PGX. But bear in mind that a man's livelihood may be at stake... it would be wise not to start shooting from the hip.

 

A more measured response would be to start gathering more info on Leder's customers in the event they should be contacted, as we did with Ewert.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I'm a little puzzled as to why we've seen countless cases of CGC mystery upgrades, Ewert and the like, yet no one was launching websites devoted to these topics within one day or email spamming thousands of comic collectors. Yet all of this has been proposed within 24 hours of damning information arising on PGX.

 

Hey, I'm all for doing this to CGC, too!

 

But point taken.

[Illiterati-migration]

Again, I'm not defending PGX, but I think measured and responsible responses are called for.

 

I'm a little puzzled as to why we've seen countless cases of CGC mystery upgrades, Ewert and the like, yet no one was launching websites devoted to these topics within one day or email spamming thousands of comic collectors. Yet all of this has been proposed within 24 hours of damning information arising on PGX.

 

Yes, it looks bad for PGX. But bear in mind that a man's livelihood may be at stake... it would be wise not to start shooting from the hip.

 

A more measured response would be to start gathering more info on Leder's customers in the event they should be contacted, as we did with Ewert.

 

Well said.

[codfish]

I have ALWAYS been for BOTH companies cleaning up their act. Heck one of the reasons I took time off from here was because many people were not very accepting of some of the comments I made about CGC. At that time I gave PGX benefit of the doubt. Now with all that as gone on with BOTH companies I have made up my mind I do NOT support either.

 

They have the chance to get in my trust list but they will have to make it look like that actually care about more than just their friends and big time submittors. They have to show me they are listening to ALL the voices out there. I can take the fans of both companies crapping on me but when CGC and PGX pack all us with complaints up in one tidy bunch and ignore us or say we are all crackpots that is unacceptable.

 

SB and DP DON"T listen to all the voices out there and that is just too bad. If they did both their companies wouldn't look like your average circus grifters.

[Red Hook]

One thing I'm going to pull you on though, matey, is the comment regarding Doug. Until such time as Mr Schmell produces the receipts he promised many months ago (that have apparently disappeared), his yarns (and there were a few versions) cannot hang together and he IS guilty of more than pressing and resubbing...at least in my eyes and the eyes of a great number of boarders.

 

Ask yourself...why has he forgotten to do as he said he would and prove his innocence? Surely this must be THE most important thing to him, if he wants to keep his boat afloat?

 

Nick, this may come as a surprise to you, but I have NOT forgotten this. This is another part of the scenario. If it turns out that Doug got his fingers caught in this, we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it. If what Doug has in his possession does not clear him, then frankly you'll simply never see it from him. The smoking gun will have to come from another source. I still think Doug owes the community an explanation on that one.

 

I also ask you this...if it does turn out that DS messed with that JIM92, is a single infraction enough to deepsix someone's reputation? I'm not trying to be a wiseguy here, I am honestly trying to get opinions. Because if it is, and that's the standard, then none of you guys should be submitting to CGC, buying CGC or selling CGC, and Illiterati is right, and a very double standard is still in place. If you all happened to be heavily invested in PGX.....you'd be stepping around this latest scandal in little velvet slippers. Me included.

 

I find it hard to have Mark refer to me as a hypocrite while he is very obviously selective about the withchhunts he goes on. I am still waiting for him to turn his laser beam style of inquiry on PCS. But like I said before, he still needs CGC and he doesn't need Schmell. He will never go after Borock & Co. with the same fervour as he will an isolated dealer (who happens to be a competitor.)

 

To me, the continued existence and operation of PCS is the most serious issue around to clear up. I'd love to see Mark Zaid chase after that bus.

 

Brad

[awe4one]

Again, I'm not defending PGX, but I think measured and responsible responses are called for.

 

I'm a little puzzled as to why we've seen countless cases of CGC mystery upgrades, Ewert and the like, yet no one was launching websites devoted to these topics within one day or email spamming thousands of comic collectors. Yet all of this has been proposed within 24 hours of damning information arising on PGX.

 

Yes, it looks bad for PGX. But bear in mind that a man's livelihood may be at stake... it would be wise not to start shooting from the hip.

 

Patterson has been given many many chances to do the right thing and dismissed them all for the sake of one submitter. Now it gotten to this point...I don't feel sorry for him one iota nor feel any further measured response is warranted. He's dug his grave all on his own in this case...

 

And I've been just as critical on CGC as I've been with PGX...to include posting my opinion on my website within a couple days after the PCS revelation...

 

I haven't posted anything on my website concerning the PGX/Leder case because I always held out thought Daniel would eventually do the right thing...I was wrong...

 

Jim

[Red Hook]

Again, I'm not defending PGX, but I think measured and responsible responses are called for.

 

I'm a little puzzled as to why we've seen countless cases of CGC mystery upgrades, Ewert and the like, yet no one was launching websites devoted to these topics within one day or email spamming thousands of comic collectors. Yet all of this has been proposed within 24 hours of damning information arising on PGX.

 

Yes, it looks bad for PGX. But bear in mind that a man's livelihood may be at stake... it would be wise not to start shooting from the hip.

 

A more measured response would be to start gathering more info on Leder's customers in the event they should be contacted, as we did with Ewert.

 

One of the problems is that Daniel has refused countless pleas from his friends and backers to provide more public information about who he is, what his company is about and who his team is. Those are fair questions to be posed to someone whose business is based on (supposedly) trust and integrity and professionalism. You're not paying $$$ for the little plastic slab, it's the quality of the grading and restoration check.

 

Daniel has had an ongoing responsiblity to clear up a lot of these questions and has never adequately answered any of them. Again, the responsibity is his. He has no one to blame but himself. HIs website is simply a fancy looking informational firewall.

 

As far as the issue of foul play being involved here....if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck......

 

 

Brad

[Red Hook]

Looks like Jim and I are saying exactly the same thing.

[codfish]

I just posted a very angry response covering some of what I said above and what RH said about Daniel ignoring /friends/backers/supporters here:

 

http://forum.stlcomics.com/viewtopic.php?t=2852&start=50

[Ze-man]

I'm a little puzzled as to why we've seen countless cases of CGC mystery upgrades, Ewert and the like, yet no one was launching websites devoted to these topics within one day or email spamming thousands of comic collectors. Yet all of this has been proposed within 24 hours of damning information arising on PGX.

 

 

Well, to be fair. I think plenty of lambasting has been directed towards CGC. And that lambasting has gone on right in their own living room. Your point about needing to inform the public about all things bad, be they CGC or other... through a website format has merit. And in a way, THIS website has provided just such a platform. I dont know of any business that would allow people to openly present information true, or worse yet, untrue that might have a detrimental effect on their bottom line.

But in the case of Atom Bombs , Leder, Danny, PGX....well, this is just too much of a smoking gun to not warrent some type of knee jerk reaction. And as said many times already, this was not an isolated incident with PQX and Leder, but rather their self inflicted coup de grace.

 

CGC is and will always be in the dog house with me, that is my personal opinion arrived from their recent business decisions. Do I think they are willfully being decieptful, no, I think they are making decisions they feel best for their company to make money.

But based upon the information presented in this, and the other previous Leder/PQX threads, I do not think it is out of line to see how many have reacted here so far. And I cannot see how this will have a happy ending.

 

 

Ze-

[Hobgoblin]

This is really stupid. You can look at those slabbed books and tell that they are not 9.6's and 9.8's. They're freakin' brown!

[Illiterati-migration]

I'm a little puzzled as to why we've seen countless cases of CGC mystery upgrades, Ewert and the like, yet no one was launching websites devoted to these topics within one day or email spamming thousands of comic collectors. Yet all of this has been proposed within 24 hours of damning information arising on PGX.

 

 

Well, to be fair. I think plenty of lambasting has been directed towards CGC. And that lambasting has gone on right in their own living room. Your point about needing to inform the public about all things bad, be they CGC or other... through a website format has merit. And in a way, THIS website hasprovided just such activity. I dont know of any business that would allow people to openly present information true, or worse yet, untrue that might have a detrimental effect on their bottom line.

But in the case of Atom Bombs , Leder, Danny, PQX....well, this is just too much of a smoking gun to not warrent some type of knee jerk reaction. And as said many times already, this was not an isolated incident with PQX and Leder, but rather their self inflicted coup de grace.

 

CGC is and will always be in the dog house with me, that is my personal opinion arrived from their recent business decisions. Do I think they are willfully being decieptful, no, I think they are making decisions they feel best for their company to make money.

But based upon the information presented in this, and the other previous Leder/PQX threads, I do not think it is out of line to see how many have reacted here so far. And I cannot see how this will have a happy ending.

 

 

Ze-

 

You don't think that allowing a secret cadre of big-time dealers a loophole that allows them to circumvent CGC's own restoration check is deceitful?

 

Unless I missed the public announcement of this particular aspect of CGC's business model?

[divad]

freakin' unbelievable I'm gonna go get my coffee . . .

[Red Hook]

Do I think they are willfully being decieptful, no, I think they are making decisions they feel best for their company to make money.

 

 

Ze-

 

Here's a concept. If you put the customer first, keep your actions above reproach, be open and communicative at all times and treat all your customers equally.....then in the long run, you will make tons more money and in addition, enjoy what you're doing without the ulcers.

 

I will keep saying it: The launch of PCS was the worst-long term decision they could ever have made. I think they should either shut it down completely, or have the cahones to go public and make it's services available to every one.

 

Red

[Illiterati-migration]

Do I think they are willfully being decieptful, no, I think they are making decisions they feel best for their company to make money.

 

 

Ze-

 

Here's a concept. If you put the customer first, keep your actions above reproach, be open and communicative at all times and treat all your customers equally.....then in the long run, you will make tons more money and in addition, enjoy what you're doing without the ulcers.

 

I will keep saying it: The launch of PCS was the worst-long term decision they could ever have made. I think they should either shut it down completely, or have the cahones to go public and make it's services available to every one.

 

Red

 

How many BSDs would you trust to "do the right thing" when they could be making money hand over fist if they "do the wrong thing"?

 

(Keep in mind that before Borock worked for CGC he was, of course, a comic book dealer.)

[Red Hook]

I know, I don't really expect the kind of approach I mentioned. It's how I would try it though. At least, even if I didn't get rich, I could live with myself. And honestly, I think you have as much chance of getting rich if you keep your rep intact.

[Ze-man]

I'm a little puzzled as to why we've seen countless cases of CGC mystery upgrades, Ewert and the like, yet no one was launching websites devoted to these topics within one day or email spamming thousands of comic collectors. Yet all of this has been proposed within 24 hours of damning information arising on PGX.

 

 

Well, to be fair. I think plenty of lambasting has been directed towards CGC. And that lambasting has gone on right in their own living room. Your point about needing to inform the public about all things bad, be they CGC or other... through a website format has merit. And in a way, THIS website hasprovided just such activity. I dont know of any business that would allow people to openly present information true, or worse yet, untrue that might have a detrimental effect on their bottom line.

But in the case of Atom Bombs , Leder, Danny, PQX....well, this is just too much of a smoking gun to not warrent some type of knee jerk reaction. And as said many times already, this was not an isolated incident with PQX and Leder, but rather their self inflicted coup de grace.

 

CGC is and will always be in the dog house with me, that is my personal opinion arrived from their recent business decisions. Do I think they are willfully being decieptful, no, I think they are making decisions they feel best for their company to make money.

But based upon the information presented in this, and the other previous Leder/PQX threads, I do not think it is out of line to see how many have reacted here so far. And I cannot see how this will have a happy ending.

 

 

Ze-

 

You don't think that allowing a secret cadre of big-time dealers a loophole that allows them to circumvent CGC's own restoration check is deceitful?

 

Unless I missed the public announcement of this particular aspect of CGC's business model?

 

 

When the point was made about why are we running to the rooftops proclaiming PQX is the devil,and not treat CGC equally. I was merely trying to make the point that while CGC might run their business in a manner I do not like, I dont think they are trimming books and selling them on the market.

 

But THAT is the crux of this whole thing isn't it? Pretty much wether or not Daniel knew the books were trimmed and put them in a blue label anyways. THAT and OR is Daniel P, T. Leder? Is Daniel in bed with Leder? etc..etc.. it remains to be seen if any of that is true, to me it appears worse then better for them.

 

If it came out,or at least circumstantial evidence came out that Steve B. and Friesen were manipulating books and purposefully selling them on Ebay for something they were not, then I would be reacting the same way I did when I read Arty's initial post. I am just going with what I have seen so far.

 

If you want to discuss how Heritage has Steve in their pocket. Or how BSD dictate to CGC how they want them to run their biz.

Make your own thread, and speak your mind.

 

It aint on my docket today to fry that fish.

 

 

 

Ze-

 

 

For the record I have called and emailed Danny asking him his side of the story..So far he has not replied. And yes I asked in a very civil manner.

[BachelorOfComix]

One of the problems is that Daniel has refused countless pleas from his friends and backers to provide more public information about who he is, what his company is about and who his team is.

 

Meet The Team

[Mephisto]

Does anyone have any examples of books being broken out of PGX slabs and sent into CGC that can't be traced back as being sold by Leder? It seems like every time some shady things about involving PGX, Leder is associated. I have seen many posts involving this bizzare situation, including the photshoped submission dates on the labels after TD was "banned" from using PGX. Just the fact that they are from the same town makes it seem very obvious that there is a nice little business deal among PGX and Leder. I believe someone has mentioned receiving Paypal payment from him but a bunch of different names were involved in the transaction inlcuding a different name on the Paypal account. It's like the whole Danny/Richard deal, as some have mentioned it's possible that Leder is alias for Daniel but I would imagine it's just a business friend.

Right now I don't think CGC bashing in this thread is relevant. When shady things go on with them they are discussed on this board. Go post about those in the appropriate threads, don't bother rehashing it here. Concentrate on the PGX / Leder connection that seems to be deceiving the general public and has been doing so for some time now. This issue needs to be investigated instead of just letting Daniel post somewhere saying and then something else happening involving Leder again 6 months later.

[comicdonna]

 

As I mentioned in the 1st page of the original thread, the transaction I had with them was weird.

The info that ebay keeps on record for ma4pres is:

Christina Leder

4450 Hilton Drive.

Eugene, Or. 97402

(541) 521-2620

When she finally replied from christinascollectables@hotmail.com she gave me an address.

Terance Leder

PO. box 2423

Eugene, Or. 97402

 

Several days later, I sent another e-mail, and recieved a paypal payment from:

Dennis Hooker

293 West 7th

Eugene, Or. 97401

 

His e-mail address with paypal is: dhooker@pond.net

with an unconfirmed address, so I sent the book to Terrance.

 

We are talking about a $529 payment, so, I guess my point is: Who is Dennis Hooker? He must fit in here somewhere. The Leder's must have called him to make the payment. He typed in the subject matter manually with paypal.